Modest Suggestions For In-game Adjustments

[Elonsmusk]

David Joplin would do well from the mid range. Also, when you completely eliminate mid range to the extent that we eschew mid range shots, it does make defending easier. Two dimensional instead of three.

I don't feel there's a need to deviate much at all from current strategy, however I also could see some benefit to running some screen action for Joplin to get elbow mid range shots - mixed in on occasion.

[The Sultan]

Elbow shots are not mid range.

[Shooter McGavin]

How far does ATR extend, 10 feet? 

[Elonsmusk]

Elbow shots are not mid range.

What is a shot at the elbow then?

[MU82]

Kolek got quite good at floaters from 10-ish feet, and Oso had his famous push shot. So if a player can be efficient with shots not right at the rim, Shaka obviously is OK with those shots.

But most players aren't good at those. And 15-19-footers simply are not efficient - which is why most of today's good (and even not good) teams rarely take them.

Mo Lucas isn't walking through that door.

[romey]

Elbow shots are not mid range.

They are if you read brewcity's analysis.
If Jop has the ball and turns to face the basket from mid-range 12 ft, 15 ft, 17 ft, whatever you agree is midrange), and no one is guarding him, why not take that shot? Analytics aside, kicking it back out doesn't mean we'll hit the three. And driving to the hoop, often results in a contested shot. Shoot the gimme!

[tower912]

What is a shot at the elbow then?

In my experience, usually some variation of cortisone.

[wisblue]

Midrange jumpers aren't going to work for players who are essentially set shooters.

Joplin is the only player in MU's rotation who shoots with the ball above his head so he could get off a 10-15 foot shot without getting it swatted back in his face. He occasionally does take midrange shots, often fading away.

MU could use some players who are true jump shooters that can elevate and shoot with the ball above their heads.

[brewcity77]

They are if you read brewcity's analysis.
If Jop has the ball and turns to face the basket from mid-range 12 ft, 15 ft, 17 ft, whatever you agree is midrange), and no one is guarding him, why not take that shot? Analytics aside, kicking it back out doesn't mean we'll hit the three. And driving to the hoop, often results in a contested shot. Shoot the gimme!

The reason they don't is because statistically, it's not a gimme. You are more likely to score at a higher rate on the layup or three. Nothing is guaranteed, but midrange is the part of the court likely to yield the fewest points on a shot attempt.

[Scoop Snoop]

The reason they don't is because statistically, it's not a gimme. You are more likely to score at a higher rate on the layup or three. Nothing is guaranteed, but midrange is the part of the court likely to yield the fewest points on a shot attempt.

In business terms, your ROI will be less on average.

[Billy Hoyle]

1971, I watch other teams.  I love college basketball.  I watched Seton Hall and DePaul last night.  Both teams were notable for taking and missing mid range jumpers.

It's a good thing that game took place once Dry January ended. 

[Scoop Snoop]

In my experience, usually some variation of cortisone.

A shot OF the elbow can result in 2 points for the opposing team when they shoot the FTs for a F1 or F2.

[Newsdreams]

Funny how people sort of assume mid-range shots are automatic or high percentage. By the way MU has at least one long range mid-range shot made, last Saturday while foot on 3 pt line.

[Uncle Rico]

Funny how people sort of assume mid-range shots are automatic or high percentage. By the way MU has at least one long range mid-range shot made, last Saturday while foot on 3 pt line.

Jim Chones never missed a mid-range jump shot

[DoctorV]

Fans wouldn't even think about mid range shots if the fellas that shoot the most 3s shot close to their career avg from 3.

I was floored when I saw that Ben has made the same amount of 3s as Kam on the season, that's absurd

[Scoop Snoop]

Fans wouldn't even think about mid range shots if the fellas that shoot the most 3s shot close to their career avg from 3.

I was floored when I saw that Ben has made the same amount of 3s as Kam on the season, that's absurd

You were floored, but I think Kam's ceiling is higher.

[romey]

Funny how people sort of assume mid-range shots are automatic or high percentage. By the way MU has at least one long range mid-range shot made, last Saturday while foot on 3 pt line.

Funny how people assume three pointers are automatic or high percentage.  They have one long range shot made because they don't take them.  In the flow of a game, a wide open shot from the free throw line is not a higher percentage than kicking it back out, running more time off the clock and possibly getting an uncontested three?  I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just having a conversation.  I think this is what is tough to get our heads around - speaking for all the old school guys.  Take what the defense gives you.

[tower912]

Yes.  Because that is what they are practicing.  They aren't practicing foul line jumpers.  They are practicing drive and kick and open 3.

[wadesworld]

Funny how people assume three pointers are automatic or high percentage.  They have one long range shot made because they don't take them.  In the flow of a game, a wide open shot from the free throw line is not a higher percentage than kicking it back out, running more time off the clock and possibly getting an uncontested three?  I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just having a conversation.  I think this is what is tough to get our heads around - speaking for all the old school guys.  Take what the defense gives you.

There's a reason the defense is giving it to you.  Brew's post shows why.  The mid range shots the best mid range shooting teams in the entire country get are less efficient than what Marquette is at the shots they are taking.  Unless you think Marquette can be significantly better at shooting mid range shots than the best teams in the country are, Marquette is better off taking the shots they are currently taking.

[tower912]

So, going back to the DePaul game and the complaints about MU against the zone, DePaul made a choice, parallel to what UConn did, parallel to what Creighton does with Kalkbrenner in drop coverage ostensibly guarding Stevie.  DePaul left their big under the basket and did not collapse their zone when the ball got passed to the foul line.   Why?  They know MU does not like that shot and were willing to take their chances if MU started shooting it.
 Creighton makes a choice.  Run opponents off the 3, let Kalkbrenner alter shots at the rim.  If a team thinks they can beat Creighton shooting pull ups, so be it.   Why?  That is where the game of basketball, both at the college level and the NBA, is right now.  On the rare occasion a team tries to win from the mid range, let them.
All about the metrics.

[Big Papi]

Count me in the old guys camp.

I get why you want your shots at the rim or behind the 3 point line. I'm going to have a lot of buts now.

But if you are not a good 3 point shooting team, the 3 point shot is not a good shot.

But if you are struggling to score at the rim due to a shot blocker or it's not your night. Why continue the absolute of I still want to take a shot at the rim every time.

Sometimes you need to adjust based on current outcomes.  Sometimes a midrange shot might be a tool to help loosen up the 3 point shooting or getting better looks at the rim.

My thinking is there are no absolutes.  Yes we want to shoot 3s or at the rim.  Doesn't mean you can't deviate and try something different when those options are not working.

[The Sultan]

Funny how people assume three pointers are automatic or high percentage.  They have one long range shot made because they don't take them.  In the flow of a game, a wide open shot from the free throw line is not a higher percentage than kicking it back out, running more time off the clock and possibly getting an uncontested three?  I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just having a conversation.  I think this is what is tough to get our heads around - speaking for all the old school guys.  Take what the defense gives you.

Out of curiosity, how much better do you think the percentage is from mid-range than it is from three? Because I think you would be surprised to see that, while better, such shots are usually made less than 5% more often. 

That's why the criticisms of the offense seem silly to me. It's generating the shots that it should.

[GoldenEagles03]

Count me in the old guys camp.

I get why you want your shots at the rim or behind the 3 point line. I'm going to have a lot of buts now.

But if you are not a good 3 point shooting team, the 3 point shot is not a good shot.

But if you are struggling to score at the rim due to a shot blocker or it's not your night. Why continue the absolute of I still want to take a shot at the rim every time.

Sometimes you need to adjust based on current outcomes.  Sometimes a midrange shot might be a tool to help loosen up the 3 point shooting or getting better looks at the rim.

My thinking is there are no absolutes.  Yes we want to shoot 3s or at the rim.  Doesn't mean you can't deviate and try something different when those options are not working.

But Kam Jones is a career 38% from 3.

But Chase Ross is a career 36% from 3.

But David Joplin is a career 35% from 3.

But Ben Gold is a career 35% from 3.

And Stevie is shooting better than all of them at 39% from 3 on the year.

Together they've made 722 3's at Marquette and even more importantly, won about 73% (or more depending on which class) of their games here with that strategy. Let em fly when they're open. Knock them down.

[The Sultan]

Count me in the old guys camp.

I get why you want your shots at the rim or behind the 3 point line. I'm going to have a lot of buts now.

But if you are not a good 3 point shooting team, the 3 point shot is not a good shot.

But somehow "not a good 3 point shooting team" is going to be a good long range 2 point shooting team???

C'mon...

[Big Papi]

But somehow "not a good 3 point shooting team" is going to be a good long range 2 point shooting team???

C'mon...

I'm not saying to take long range shots.

I'm not saying to change our offense.

I'm saying sometimes try something else to loosen up the offense when you can't make a shot at the rim or from 3.

You guys and your absolutes.

Maybe if the 10-12 footer is open, you take it and see if it loosens up the defense. Oso hitting those 8-10 footer push shots did open things up around the rim. There is none of that now

Also sometimes when as a player to are shooting bricks, seeing a shot go in can turn it around.