Importance of beating Wisconsin

[TallTitan34]

unless MU plays them in the tourney. 

Now that could get into the Super Bowl discussion.

[tower912]

Right now, I would think MU would see Wiscy in a 2-7 game

[MUDPT]

Now that could get into the Super Bowl discussion.

Some of us remember the discussion in 2003, whether it was worth it to make the Elite 8, if they lost to the Badgers...

[Johnny B]

It's embarrassing and insulting to the program acting like this game is the end all be all of the season. Fun rivalry you want to win but that's it:

[BrewCity83]

It is a good rivalry.  I got a great chuckle this morning when my Badger-alum boss flipped me off.

[wadesworld]

It is a good rivalry.  I got a great chuckle this morning when my Badger-alum boss flipped me off.

Keefe is emailing your HR department on your boss.  And on you for being on Scoop.

[BrewCity83]

Keefe is emailing your HR department on your boss.  And on you for being on Scoop.

Haha...it's all in good fun.  But he was pretty sore about Saturday's game.   

[MU82]

Keefe is emailing your HR department on your boss.  And on you for being on Scoop.

BTW ... no keefe at the Seattle watching party Saturday, so I couldn't give him your love.

[Scoop Snoop]

Hatred is underrated.  Perhaps I can tutor you Tower and increase your wrath towards certain people, organizations, teams, universities, governments, and a plethora of other animate and inanimate objects? 

If you ever decide to seek the help that you so desperately need, be sure to hand a copy of this to whomever has the misfortune of trying to untwist your tortured little mind.

[Viper]

Like any rivalry, the importance of the game can often revolve around the characters involved and the success of the rival.

Wisconsin is a rival because they have always been on the schedule.  Prior to 1994, the rivalry was most heated when Al McGuire was coach because Marquette dominated it and was in the midst of their greatest success while Wisconsin was mired in being Wisconsin.

For Marquette fans, Notre Dame and the like were probably a bigger rival because they were good and an actual real threat to the success of Marquette.

The Marquette revival coincided with the rise of Wisconsin under Dick Bennett and Bo Ryan, coaches with deep state ties that helped grow the ties to Wisconsin by the ShopKo Badger fans.  When Wisconsin found success, the fans finally had a reason to crow and Marquette could no longer lord what happened in 1977 over them.

The other reason for the heat being turned up was, Bo and TC not exactly being fans of one another.  Neither fanbase liked either and that added to it.  Wisconsin's success at the end of the Buzz era and the Buzz exit tilted things west but the heat dissipated after.  I'd wager the rivalry was never hotter than 2000-2015.

With Wisconsin's post-Bo success largely being the 1st two seasons after he left and early tourney exits and general Gard apathy settling in, a lot of Wisconsin fandom has also dissipated quite a bit.  They're no different than most fanbase in that they're front runners.

The rivalry is not what it was.  Certain segments of the Marquette fanbase circle this game and a loss is devastating.  I'm a Milwaukee guy and do not like dealing with happy Rodent fans but the needle when Marquette wins is still fun.  But that said, until Wisconsin shows signs of life beyond what they have been and have a coach that isn't vanilla, I think the temperature is lukewarm.

And yes, I know they were a 3-seed 3 years ago but by time the dance came around, that team had used up all its black magic and got bounced like they should have.

I had heard that Bo and Crean weren't sending each other Christmas cards...rubbed each other the wrong way. Ironically, Barry Alvarez and Bo weren't exactly chums either!...and Barry & TC were actually quite friendly.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Of course it has more juice. Maybe not for every individual fan,  but for the programs,  players,  coaches,  and most of the fanbase, of course it does. Anyone saying otherwise is lying. But it's nowhere near a super bowl for either side.  The super bowl line is something bitter badgers toss out when they lose.

[cheebs09]

I had heard that Bo and Crean weren't sending each other Christmas cards...rubbed each other the wrong way. Ironically, Barry Alvarez and Bo weren't exactly chums either!...and Barry & TC were actually quite friendly.

Well, part of the problem was Bo and Barry were getting rubbed the same way.

[Lennys Tap]

I had heard that Bo and Crean weren't sending each other Christmas cards...rubbed each other the wrong way.

They rubbed themselves the wrong way.

[wadesworld]

If you ever decide to seek the help that you so desperately need, be sure to hand a copy of this to whomever has the misfortune of trying to untwist your tortured little mind.

Dude, calm down.

[real chili 83]

Big game for me, as I have a bottle of Yellowstone single barrel riding on it with my BIL, why is former prez of Bucky alum association

We always have fun banter

His wife, when Ellenson committed to MU, said, didn't he have the grades for Wisconsin....in a straight face. Even my BIL rolled hide eyes

[pbiflyer]

Hatred isn't the way of Jesus Christ, our lord and savior

That domer homer that attends every Notre Who home game? Screw him and the donkey he rode in on. Though I hear his dad is a huge Marquette fan. 

[tower912]

That domer homer that attends every Notre Who home game? Screw him and the donkey he rode in on. Though I hear his dad is a huge Marquette fan. 

When things are going well, he is touchdown Jesus.  When things are going poorly, he is WTF Jesus.

[MUMountin]

Like any rivalry, the importance of the game can often revolve around the characters involved and the success of the rival.

Wisconsin is a rival because they have always been on the schedule.  Prior to 1994, the rivalry was most heated when Al McGuire was coach because Marquette dominated it and was in the midst of their greatest success while Wisconsin was mired in being Wisconsin.

For Marquette fans, Notre Dame and the like were probably a bigger rival because they were good and an actual real threat to the success of Marquette.

The Marquette revival coincided with the rise of Wisconsin under Dick Bennett and Bo Ryan, coaches with deep state ties that helped grow the ties to Wisconsin by the ShopKo Badger fans.  When Wisconsin found success, the fans finally had a reason to crow and Marquette could no longer lord what happened in 1977 over them.

The other reason for the heat being turned up was, Bo and TC not exactly being fans of one another.  Neither fanbase liked either and that added to it.  Wisconsin's success at the end of the Buzz era and the Buzz exit tilted things west but the heat dissipated after.  I'd wager the rivalry was never hotter than 2000-2015.

With Wisconsin's post-Bo success largely being the 1st two seasons after he left and early tourney exits and general Gard apathy settling in, a lot of Wisconsin fandom has also dissipated quite a bit.  They're no different than most fanbase in that they're front runners.

This also helps explain why there are fewer clear rivals in general right now compared to previous eras of MU basketball--you need a "villain" on both sides for a sustained period of time to create a real rivalry.  In college hoops, the most notable characters are going to be coaches--Digger, Huggins, Calipari, Pitino 1.0, Bo, Boeheim, etc. were all easy to dislike, were largely successful, and stuck around for many years.  TC and Buzz probably felt the same to other fanbases.  And, occasionally a player comes around that sticks around for multiple years and is also easy to dislike (Harangody, Brad Davison, Myles Powell etc.) that can juice a rivalry.

Since the new BE, the coaches largely seem to like and respect each other and the other programs, so it feels harder to really get amped up about them.  Jay Wright was so smooth, so it was hard to hate on Villanova even when they were dominating the league.  Or, the dislikable ones have moved on--as others alluded, Seton Hall under Willard had some juice, but that feels like it has fizzled under Sha.  And on the player side, with players often not playing for the same team for more than a season or two, it is harder to really develop that role in other fans' minds

Hurley and Cooley (and maybe Sean Miller now that he is back) are probably the most polarizing coaches in the BE right now, but both have tended to be really complimentary of MU and Shaka, so it is harder to get really amped up about beating them.  McDermott can annoy me a little, but he doesn't fill the villain role in the same way as those above.  Even Pitino 2.0 doesn't seem as easy to dislike in the twilight of his career (but I'm reserving judgment there).  And back to UW--Gard just feels too vanilla to really get amped up about. 

And I think that Shaka is probably the same way--he is pretty complimentary about other teams/coaches and has only seemed to be irked by other coaches in a few instances.  As a result, it is hard to imagine many other fan bases really seeing Shaka in a villain role for MU (other than being too active on the sideline).  The one time I recall Shaka really getting amped towards another head coach was with Self at KU last year--maybe we need to see that happen a little more to reignite some rivalry.  On the player side--I know Kolek got under other fan bases' skin, but I'm not sure any of our current roster is viewed in the same way.

In some ways, this is all good, because it means it is easier to focus on overall success rather than the results of a handful of games--focus on winning the war, not the battle.  But it does feel like the rivalries are not what they used to be.  Or maybe I'm just getting older. 

[The Sultan]

But it does feel like the rivalries are not what they used to be. 

I feel like its that way in almost all sports these days. People just don't get as amped up as usual for big rivalry games.

Or maybe I'm just getting older. 

Or maybe it's just that.

[Carl]

This also helps explain why there are fewer clear rivals in general right now compared to previous eras of MU basketball--you need a "villain" on both sides for a sustained period of time to create a real rivalry.  In college hoops, the most notable characters are going to be coaches--Digger, Huggins, Calipari, Pitino 1.0, Bo, Boeheim, etc. were all easy to dislike, were largely successful, and stuck around for many years.  TC and Buzz probably felt the same to other fanbases.  And, occasionally a player comes around that sticks around for multiple years and is also easy to dislike (Harangody, Brad Davison, Myles Powell etc.) that can juice a rivalry.

Since the new BE, the coaches largely seem to like and respect each other and the other programs, so it feels harder to really get amped up about them.  Jay Wright was so smooth, so it was hard to hate on Villanova even when they were dominating the league.  Or, the dislikable ones have moved on--as others alluded, Seton Hall under Willard had some juice, but that feels like it has fizzled under Sha.  And on the player side, with players often not playing for the same team for more than a season or two, it is harder to really develop that role in other fans' minds

Hurley and Cooley (and maybe Sean Miller now that he is back) are probably the most polarizing coaches in the BE right now, but both have tended to be really complimentary of MU and Shaka, so it is harder to get really amped up about beating them.  McDermott can annoy me a little, but he doesn't fill the villain role in the same way as those above.  Even Pitino 2.0 doesn't seem as easy to dislike in the twilight of his career (but I'm reserving judgment there).  And back to UW--Gard just feels too vanilla to really get amped up about. 

And I think that Shaka is probably the same way--he is pretty complimentary about other teams/coaches and has only seemed to be irked by other coaches in a few instances.  As a result, it is hard to imagine many other fan bases really seeing Shaka in a villain role for MU (other than being too active on the sideline).  The one time I recall Shaka really getting amped towards another head coach was with Self at KU last year--maybe we need to see that happen a little more to reignite some rivalry.  On the player side--I know Kolek got under other fan bases' skin, but I'm not sure any of our current roster is viewed in the same way.

In some ways, this is all good, because it means it is easier to focus on overall success rather than the results of a handful of games--focus on winning the war, not the battle.  But it does feel like the rivalries are not what they used to be.  Or maybe I'm just getting older. 

I'm not sure this topic deserved 4 pages, but this was very well thought out and written.  I agree with all of it except one caveat, Kansas and Creighton fans absolutely hate Shaka with the fire of 1000 suns. It extended to Tyler last year with, otherwise intelligent and successful adults, fully believing that he couldn't read. But mainly it's Shaka, Kansas has many reasons to hate, stemming back to VCU bouncing them on the way to his final 4

[CountryRoads]

https://x.com/mattfostertv/status/1628262630107258882?s=46

[The Sultan]

If another coach did that at Fiserv, I wouldn't even think twice about it.

[Tyler COLEk]

I think the look toward the crowd brings it just over the edge for me. Love it.

[wadesworld]

I'm not sure this topic deserved 4 pages, but this was very well thought out and written.  I agree with all of it except one caveat, Kansas and Creighton fans absolutely hate Shaka with the fire of 1000 suns. It extended to Tyler last year with, otherwise intelligent and successful adults, fully believing that he couldn't read. But mainly it's Shaka, Kansas has many reasons to hate, stemming back to VCU bouncing them on the way to his final 4

Providence fans hate him and Marquette too.  But they seem to hate everyone.

[cheebs09]

https://x.com/mattfostertv

https://x.com/mattfostertv/status/1628262630107258882?s=46

Weren't the fans giving it to him most of the game? I want to say it was at home against Creighton where Shaka was on the court a bunch and their fans were worked up about it online. Then this game wasn't super long after it.