Main Menu
collapse

Resources

Stud of Western Carolina Game

Kam Jones

20 points, 6 rebounds,
10 assists, 1 block,
1 steal, 25 minutes

2024-25 Season SoG Tally
Jones, K.5
Joplin2
Ross1

'23-24 '22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

Big East Standings

Recent Posts

2024-25 NCAA Basketball Thread by Zog from Margo
[Today at 12:10:02 PM]


ESPN+ for MU-ISU by Juan Anderson's Mixtape
[Today at 11:45:28 AM]


Marquette NBA Thread by Jockey
[Today at 11:30:27 AM]


Game Day from the Ames Tribune by wisblue
[Today at 10:09:40 AM]


Big East 2024 -25 Results by StillWarriors
[Today at 08:32:11 AM]


2024-25 Big East Poll Rankings, NET Rankings and Team Sheets by TAMU, Knower of Ball
[Today at 08:28:20 AM]


Zaide injury? by pbiflyer
[Today at 06:46:14 AM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address. We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or signup NOW!

Next up:  @ Iowa State

Marquette
94
Marquette @
Iowa State
Date/Time: Dec 4, 2024 7:00pm
TV: ESPN+
Schedule for 2024-25
Western Carolina
62

Uncle Rico

Quote from: #UnleashSean on November 25, 2024, 09:32:43 AMI'm betting this thread will have 20 pages by the end of the year. With each side saying told you so depending on which streak gold is on.

I'd argue, people focusing solely on Ben's 3-point shooting are missing a whole lot of his contribution to this team
Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

#UnleashSean

Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 25, 2024, 09:35:02 AMI'd argue, people focusing solely on Ben's 3-point shooting are missing a whole lot of his contribution to this team

Gold is one 12 rebound, 3 block, 1-8 3pt game away from this thread exploding.

TallTitan34

Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 25, 2024, 09:35:02 AMI'd argue, people focusing solely on Ben's 3-point shooting are missing a whole lot of his contribution to this team

This.

BM1090

Quote from: #UnleashSean on November 25, 2024, 09:36:44 AMGold is one 12 rebound, 3 block, 1-8 3pt game away from this thread exploding.

You're not wrong but that says more about his board than Gold

Scoop Snoop

Quote from: BM1090 on November 25, 2024, 10:40:43 AMYou're not wrong but that says more about his board than Gold

Ohhh yes! You would think that on a bball fan board, you would not need to explain that. It's not rocket science.
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

"All of our answers are unencumbered by the thought process." NPR's Click and Clack of Car Talk.

brewcity77

Ben's shooting splits continue to be one of the most fascinating things to me about his career. Here are his year-by-year season percentages from deep:

  • 2024-25: 30.8%
  • 2023-24: 35.9%
  • 2022-23: 30.0%
  • Career: 33.5%

Looking at that, you think "decent but not great shooter." But what's amazing about Ben is he shoots much, much better against tougher competition. For difficult games, kenpom designates them as Tier A & B. Everyone else is an undesignated game. So at Maryland and Purdue were Tier A, Georgia was Tier B, everything else was undesignated. Here are Ben's splits by difficulty:

  • 2024-25 Tier A&B: 44.4%
  • 2024-25 undesignated: 19.0%
  • 2023-24 Tier A&B: 41.4%
  • 2023-24 undesignated: 27.7%
  • 2022-23 Tier A&B: 36.4%
  • 2022-23 Undesignated: 25.0%
  • Career Tier A&B: 40.9%
  • Career Undesignated: 23.1%

I won't pretend to understand this, but the tougher the opponent and the brighter the lights, the better Ben tends to be. So don't be surprised to see shooting regression this week only for him to take off starting in December.
This space reserved for a 2024 2025 National Championship celebration banner.

romey

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 25, 2024, 10:46:10 AMBen's shooting splits continue to be one of the most fascinating things to me about his career. Here are his year-by-year season percentages from deep:

  • 2024-25: 30.8%
  • 2023-24: 35.9%
  • 2022-23: 30.0%
  • Career: 33.5%

Looking at that, you think "decent but not great shooter." But what's amazing about Ben is he shoots much, much better against tougher competition. For difficult games, kenpom designates them as Tier A & B. Everyone else is an undesignated game. So at Maryland and Purdue were Tier A, Georgia was Tier B, everything else was undesignated. Here are Ben's splits by difficulty:

  • 2024-25 Tier A&B: 44.4%
  • 2024-25 undesignated: 19.0%
  • 2023-24 Tier A&B: 41.4%
  • 2023-24 undesignated: 27.7%
  • 2022-23 Tier A&B: 36.4%
  • 2022-23 Undesignated: 25.0%
  • Career Tier A&B: 40.9%
  • Career Undesignated: 23.1%

I won't pretend to understand this, but the tougher the opponent and the brighter the lights, the better Ben tends to be. So don't be surprised to see shooting regression this week only for him to take off starting in December.

That's absolutely crazy, but I will take that all day long vs. hitting threes against cupcakes.

#UnleashSean

Quote from: BM1090 on November 25, 2024, 10:40:43 AMYou're not wrong but that says more about his board than Gold

I was making a joke directed at the board. Not gold.

wadesworld

Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 25, 2024, 09:35:02 AMI'd argue, people focusing solely on Ben's 3-point shooting are missing a whole lot of his contribution to this team

Knows ball.

brewcity77

Quote from: wadesworld on November 25, 2024, 12:00:07 PMKnows ball.

100%

Ben's defensive contributions have been so impressive. I never expected him to be this effective replacing Oso on the defensive end. (Not saying he's Oso, but he's way, way better than I expected)
This space reserved for a 2024 2025 National Championship celebration banner.

wadesworld

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 25, 2024, 12:04:02 PM100%

Ben's defensive contributions have been so impressive. I never expected him to be this effective replacing Oso on the defensive end. (Not saying he's Oso, but he's way, way better than I expected)

Agreed, and as Tower has pointed out, the scheme has changed to help Ben and the other bigs out.  While we used to just let Oso shut off the point of attack on a full on switch to the guard, we are now hard hedging and recovering with our big.  Both are effective for the personnel that was deploying the scheme.

MuMark

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 25, 2024, 10:46:10 AMBen's shooting splits continue to be one of the most fascinating things to me about his career. Here are his year-by-year season percentages from deep:

  • 2024-25: 30.8%
  • 2023-24: 35.9%
  • 2022-23: 30.0%
  • Career: 33.5%

Looking at that, you think "decent but not great shooter." But what's amazing about Ben is he shoots much, much better against tougher competition. For difficult games, kenpom designates them as Tier A & B. Everyone else is an undesignated game. So at Maryland and Purdue were Tier A, Georgia was Tier B, everything else was undesignated. Here are Ben's splits by difficulty:

  • 2024-25 Tier A&B: 44.4%
  • 2024-25 undesignated: 19.0%
  • 2023-24 Tier A&B: 41.4%
  • 2023-24 undesignated: 27.7%
  • 2022-23 Tier A&B: 36.4%
  • 2022-23 Undesignated: 25.0%
  • Career Tier A&B: 40.9%
  • Career Undesignated: 23.1%

I won't pretend to understand this, but the tougher the opponent and the brighter the lights, the better Ben tends to be. So don't be surprised to see shooting regression this week only for him to take off starting in December.

Since we can usually win the easier games in spite of his shooting woes I'd be ok with this trend continuing.....lol

DoctorV

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 25, 2024, 10:46:10 AMBen's shooting splits continue to be one of the most fascinating things to me about his career. Here are his year-by-year season percentages from deep:

  • 2024-25: 30.8%
  • 2023-24: 35.9%
  • 2022-23: 30.0%
  • Career: 33.5%

Looking at that, you think "decent but not great shooter." But what's amazing about Ben is he shoots much, much better against tougher competition. For difficult games, kenpom designates them as Tier A & B. Everyone else is an undesignated game. So at Maryland and Purdue were Tier A, Georgia was Tier B, everything else was undesignated. Here are Ben's splits by difficulty:

  • 2024-25 Tier A&B: 44.4%
  • 2024-25 undesignated: 19.0%
  • 2023-24 Tier A&B: 41.4%
  • 2023-24 undesignated: 27.7%
  • 2022-23 Tier A&B: 36.4%
  • 2022-23 Undesignated: 25.0%
  • Career Tier A&B: 40.9%
  • Career Undesignated: 23.1%

I won't pretend to understand this, but the tougher the opponent and the brighter the lights, the better Ben tends to be. So don't be surprised to see shooting regression this week only for him to take off starting in December.

Great stuff Brew.

Is Joplin an inverse of this?
I know that it takes a lot of work, but I'd love the data on Jop.
Seems like he loves the Davids, but shrinks a bit versus the Goliaths, and I wonder if the data backs that up?

brewcity77

Quote from: DoctorV on November 25, 2024, 12:50:01 PMGreat stuff Brew.

Is Joplin an inverse of this?
I know that it takes a lot of work, but I'd love the data on Jop.
Seems like he loves the Davids, but shrinks a bit versus the Goliaths, and I wonder if the data backs that up?

Joplin isn't as straight a shot in that regard, though last year that would be an understandable conclusion. I'd love to see a split in his large gym vs small gym numbers, as so many of his outbursts (Georgia, DePaul, GMU at the Al) seem to come in smaller venues. Here are his splits:

  • 2024-25 Total: 28.0%
  • 2024-25 Tier A&B: 33.3%
  • 2024-25 undesignated: 23.1%
  • 2023-24 Total: 35.5%
  • 2023-24 Tier A&B: 29.7%
  • 2023-24 undesignated: 45.3%
  • 2022-23 Total: 39.9%
  • 2022-23 Tier A&B: 41.7%
  • 2022-23 undesignated: 36.9%
  • 2021-22 Total: 28.8%
  • 2021-22 Tier A&B: 28.6%
  • 2021-22 undesignated: 29.2%
  • Career Total: 35.4%
  • Career Tier A&B: 34.1%
  • Career undesignated: 37.4%
This space reserved for a 2024 2025 National Championship celebration banner.

MU82

Quote from: wadesworld on November 25, 2024, 12:08:11 PMAgreed, and as Tower has pointed out, the scheme has changed to help Ben and the other bigs out.  While we used to just let Oso shut off the point of attack on a full on switch to the guard, we are now hard hedging and recovering with our big.  Both are effective for the personnel that was deploying the scheme.

We also get better pressure up top because Ross is so much better at staying in front of and/or denying his man than TK was. Gold is doing a great job, for sure, but it's a little easier to play post defense when perimeter players are being smothered by the likes of Ross and Stevie.

As for shooting ... if Gold and Joplin shoot even 35% in games (so like a combined 5-for-14), we will be tough to beat. If they shoot close to like they did against Georgia, we are a Final Four team.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

Jockey

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 25, 2024, 12:04:02 PM100%

Ben's defensive contributions have been so impressive. I never expected him to be this effective replacing Oso on the defensive end. (Not saying he's Oso, but he's way, way better than I expected)

I think that is a result of the coach. No one expected either Ben or Jop would be as good defensively as they are.

Ans, of course, the hard work put in by the players.

Newsdreams

Goal is National Championship

BM1090


brewcity77

Quote from: Jockey on November 25, 2024, 02:17:21 PMI think that is a result of the coach. No one expected either Ben or Jop would be as good defensively as they are.

Ans, of course, the hard work put in by the players.

No doubt. So impressive how well this staff has done identifying and recruiting players that develop in the system.
This space reserved for a 2024 2025 National Championship celebration banner.

Oso Kolek

Quote from: MU82 on November 13, 2024, 05:36:04 PMThis is becoming one of the favorite topics here on Scoop. We have some folks saying Gold has never been a very good shooter, or that he only had one hot streak last season, or that Shaka shouldn't be giving Gold so much freedom to take open 3s. And, of course, we have one joyless mope who can't mention Ben without ripping him.

I thought these stats from last season pretty strongly support Shaka's faith in Gold's 3-point shooting:

First 13 games (11/6 - 12/22) - 16-for-42 (.381)
Next 5 games (12/28 - 1/20) - 0-for-12 (.000)
Next 10 games (1/24 - 2/28) - 13-for-35 (.371)
Next game (3/2 v Creighton) - 1-for-8 (.125)
Final 8 games (3/6 - 3/29) - 12-for-20 (.600).

So Gold actually had three lengthy good-shooting streaks last season. And aside from those 6 awful games in which he was 1-for-20, Gold was 41-for-97.

That's .423 over 31 games, a significant sample size.

Now, one could argue that Gold shouldn't be shooting an average of seven 3s a game, as that's about double last season's average. Or that Shaka shouldn't build his offense around Gold (and I don't believe Shaka has). But I think we'd all be quite happy about any player shooting .423 from 3 over 31 games this season.

It's up to Gold to hit the wide-open shots that the Shaka/Nevada offense creates for him. Joplin, too. If they don't, I agree with the more "concerned" Scoopers about our prospects for this season.

However, I like to think that, over the course of a long season, each will shoot about what he did in 2023-24 (around 36%). Marquette can win lots and lots of games if they do.

Joplin hitting 40%, as he did as a soph, would be even better ... but that's another thread!

Oso Kolek

Quote from: BM1090 on November 14, 2024, 05:04:24 PMI'd agree. You look back at his misses and makes and his makes almost always come when he's square to the hoop and set up to shoot. On his misses he's usually on his heels and fading a bit. Gotta correct those mechanics.

Jop I think is the better shooter or at least has higher potential with his shooting. Especially when contested.

Gold is more athletic and quicker.

But I do think they are similar players at this stage.
Jop can really make that fadeaway and shoot from deeper but golds shooting form needs to be fixed, although it did look better against UGA.

MU82

After all the consternation about his poor shooting in the first three games, Gold is 9-for-20 (.450) from 3 over the last four games. Plus outstanding defense.

We could use a little more rebounding from him, but I'd take Ben over the vast majority of D-1 centers.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

forgetful

Quote from: MU82 on November 28, 2024, 01:39:42 PMAfter all the consternation about his poor shooting in the first three games, Gold is 9-for-20 (.450) from 3 over the last four games. Plus outstanding defense.

We could use a little more rebounding from him, but I'd take Ben over the vast majority of D-1 centers.


His form (arc) has improved considerably.

Previous topic - Next topic