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Author Topic: The return of EVs thread  (Read 5836 times)

Pakuni

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Re: The return of EVs thread
« Reply #75 on: August 27, 2024, 11:03:02 AM »
It will have to pass the zero emissions test in the future in order to be on the road, so there's that

Are you sure about that? I'm not seeing any evidence of that, but I could be missing something. Seen plenty of stories regarding sales, but nothing that suggests you can't drive a gas-powered vehicle.
In fact, on a state website there's this:

Can I still drive my gasoline car after 2035?

Yes. Even after 2035, gasoline cars can still be driven in California, registered with the California Department of Motor Vehicles, and sold as a used car to a new owner.


https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/cars-and-light-trucks-are-going-zero-frequently-asked-questions

lawdog77

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Re: The return of EVs thread
« Reply #76 on: August 27, 2024, 11:06:46 AM »
Are you sure about that? I'm not seeing any evidence of that, but I could be missing something. Seen plenty of stories regarding sales, but nothing that suggests you can't drive a gas-powered vehicle.
In fact, on a state website there's this:

Can I still drive my gasoline car after 2035?

Yes. Even after 2035, gasoline cars can still be driven in California, registered with the California Department of Motor Vehicles, and sold as a used car to a new owner.


https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/cars-and-light-trucks-are-going-zero-frequently-asked-questions
Read many places where the emissions standards will be almost impossible to achieve with a gas powered vehicle, and especially a diesel powered one as you described.

jesmu84

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Re: The return of EVs thread
« Reply #77 on: August 27, 2024, 11:24:15 AM »
Read many places where the emissions standards will be almost impossible to achieve with a gas powered vehicle, and especially a diesel powered one as you described.

Can you source any of these many places?

dgies9156

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Re: The return of EVs thread
« Reply #78 on: August 27, 2024, 11:39:36 AM »
Ford is convinced they can build small, profitable EVs using next generation batteries.   As I read it, embracing the around town second car mentality.  A mid term future where households have an ICE vehicle for trips and a zippy EV for shorter, daily drives.

Brother Tower:

There actually is some sense to this approach.

We just bought this weekend and this was exactly the debate we had. If we were replacing my car, we might have gone electric. But what we were replacing was a leased 2023 Nissan Murano Platinum. We bought a 2024 version of exactly the same car because we expect to be driving this on the road -- a lot.

To make EVs viable, auto manufacturers are going to have to find a way to increase volume and bring the price down. In effect, they must spread the fixed costs across a far larger production run. The Nissan electric equivalent of our new Murano was about a $60,000 car versus about $43,000 (both before taxes and dealer costs) for our ICE Murano. Plus, with the electric, we'd have to install a Level 2 charger in our garage and that isn't inexpensive either.

There's tax credits available but there are some limitations on the tax credits that may not make them viable for everyone. As a conservative, I HATE tax credits, even when they favor me. I'd rather have a product or process stand on its own!


MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: The return of EVs thread
« Reply #79 on: September 18, 2024, 10:47:14 AM »
https://cleantechnica.com/2024/09/11/ev-battery-news-just-keeps-getting-better-and-better/


EV Battery News Just Keeps Getting Better & Better

Some headline writers continue to write off 100% battery-electric vehicles as a passing fad, overwhelmed by a flood of hybrids and the insatiable thirst for liquid fuel. That’s just plain silly, of course. Global EV sales continue to rise. The question is how fast. Faster-charging and less expensive batteries with longer range would help push things along, and that is exactly what EV battery stakeholders have in the works.

The EV Battery Of The Future, Part 1: Factorial Energy
Exhibit A is the US firm Factorial Inc. The Massachusetts startup has been a frequent visitor to the pages of CleanTechnica on account of its interest in solid-state EV battery technology. “Solid state” refers to a solid electrolyte, such as a high-tech ceramic material, instead of the volatile liquid electrolytes used in conventional lithium-ion EV batteries (see more Factorial background here).

It has taken some time for solid state innovators to shunt these new batteries from the lab to the market, but the floodgates are opening. In the latest news from Factorial, earlier this week the company teased some new info about its forthcoming Solstice™ solid-state battery, proclaiming that it can (and will) “revolutionize the safety, performance, and sustainability of the next generation of electric vehicles.”

“Solstice™ is set to achieve a breakthrough energy density of up to 450Wh/kg and incorporates a novel dry cathode design for more efficient and sustainable production,” Factorial enthused in a press statement earlier this week.

By “set to achieve,” they mean there is still some shakeout work to be done. If all goes according to plan, Factorial aims have the new Solstice battery in the hands of automakers sometime before 2030 rolls around.

Mercedes-Benz, for one, has already called dibs. Factorial notes that the new Solstice EV battery is a collaborative effort with the iconic automaker.

As for what this thing can do, Factorial claims an increase in EV range by up to 80%, due to the superior energy density of solid-state technology. The increased energy density also translates into a significant cut in the weight of a vehicle, and provides automotive designers with more room to innovate.

As for safety, Factorial describes the new battery as a “sulfide-based all-solid-state electrolyte system [that] addresses safety concerns associated with more flammable and volatile liquid electrolyte designs, targeting a EUCAR [European Council for Automotive R&D] safety rating of 2 and maintaining stability at operating temperatures over 90°C.” As an added bonus, Factorial anticipates that the improved safety factor will enable automakers to streamline battery cooling systems, helping to cut costs.

Factorial has also hooked up with Stellantis, Hyundai, and Kia in addition to Mercedes-Benz.

Part 2: StoreDot
The Israeli startup StoreDot has also come across the CleanTechnica radar on a regular basis. Rather than waiting around for full all-solid-state EV battery technology to develop, StoreDot is introducing a superfast-charging semi-solid version (see our StoreDot archive here).

The latest news from StoreDot involves the company’s first foray into prismatic EV battery architecture, referring to a thin, rectangular shape that offers the potential for improved capacity compared to cylindrical cells.


As described by StoreDot, the new prismatic battery can get to an 80% charge in just 10 minutes, from a starting point of 10% charge.

“StoreDot’s battery addresses the main barrier to mass EV adoption by eliminating charging anxiety and is available for immediate integration by OEMs,” the company says of itself, while noting that its partner, the automaker Flex|N|Gate, played the lead role in demonstrating that the new silicon “XFC” battery cells are ready for scaleup.

“The sample cells tested had an 80Ah (amp hour) capacity, demonstrating the ability to charge 10-80 percent in 10 minutes without overheating, paving the way for developing 160Ah cells that align with customer requirements,” StoreDot elaborated in a press statement.

StoreDot also notes that you can get 100 miles of charge in just five minutes, which is more than enough to account for most drivers’ daily needs and then some. The next goalpost is to reduce charging time to 100 miles in four minutes, with a three-minute target by 2028.

In an interesting twist, StoreDot is also aiming to alleviate concerns over the impact of extreme fast-charging on battery life. The company claims that signs of accelerated degradation have not materialized, despite the rough-and-tumble of extreme fast charging.

In addition, the new XFC cells are designed for drop-in integration with existing EV manufacturing lines. So far, the company has buy-in from 15 OEMs (original equipment managers) to put production-ready XFC cells through their paces. StoreDot also lists BP, Daimler, VinFast, Volvo Cars, Polestar, Ola Electric, Samsung, TDK, and manufacturing partner EVE Energy among its strategic investors and partners.

If you’re wondering what Flex|N|Gate is, that’s a good question. The US-headquartered firm was founded in 1956 and currently operates in North America, Mexico, parts of Europe, the UK, China, and Argentina. Along the way, Flex|N|Gate has acquired a laundry list of automakers deploying its products, starting with Acura and moving all through the alphabet to Volvo.

Exhibit 3: EV Battery Swapping
The next best thing after an extreme fast-charging EV battery is a swappable EV battery. Or, it might be an even better thing.

Battery swapping first emerged to great fanfare in the early 2000’s, only to fall by the wayside. Now the technology has matured and battery swapping is back in action.

Battery swapping is already catching fire among two-wheelers, which fit a manually operated grab-and-go model. The heavy battery packs needed by a four-wheeled passenger car require machinery.

The Chinese firm NIO has emerged as a leader in the newly revived passenger car battery swapping field. Others are crowding in, including the US startup Ample.

The idea behind battery swapping is to provide drivers with a freshly charged EV battery on demand. To be competitive, the swapping process should take just a few minutes, about the same it takes to fast-charge an EV battery, or to fill up with liquid fuel (it certainly takes less time than Level 1 or 2 charging).

As described by Ample, swapping stations also help make EVs more affordable. “An Ample station is 3–10 times cheaper than a fast-charging station. It’s cheaper to build and cheaper to install. So, Ample is able to deliver energy at a cost that is 10–20% cheaper than gas,” the company states.

For more battery swapping action, keep an eye on electric truck fleets. One new development in that area crossed the CleanTechnica radar earlier this week, when the UK battery-swapping firm TUAL announced the launch of its new PowerBank swappable battery for heavy-duty vehicles.

Photo (cropped): If the first wave of EV buyers has slowed momentum, automotive stakeholders area ready to catch the next wave of EV buyers with new faster charging and/or swappable EV battery technology (courtesy of Stellantis).


Tina Casey
Tina specializes in advanced energy technology, military sustainability, emerging materials, biofuels, ESG and related policy and political matters. Views expressed are her own. Follow her on LinkedIn, Threads, or Bluesky. Tina Casey has 3457 posts and counting.

muwarrior69

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Re: The return of EVs thread
« Reply #80 on: September 18, 2024, 02:05:30 PM »
Is banning ICE cars at the state level constitutional?

rocky_warrior

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Re: The return of EVs thread
« Reply #81 on: September 18, 2024, 02:16:01 PM »
Is banning ICE car sales at the state level constitutional?

FIFY.  And yup.  Some states have all sorts of weird bans on sales of things that are allowed in other states.

https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/new-colorado-law-ban-sales-dental-floss-clothes-household-products-containing-toxic-forever-chemicals/
« Last Edit: September 18, 2024, 02:17:42 PM by rocky_warrior »

lawdog77

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Re: The return of EVs thread
« Reply #82 on: September 18, 2024, 02:22:39 PM »

tower912

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Re: The return of EVs thread
« Reply #83 on: September 18, 2024, 02:34:15 PM »
They are pains in the arse to extinguish.    Good thing the battery technology continues to move forward.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

tower912

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Re: The return of EVs thread
« Reply #84 on: September 18, 2024, 03:12:27 PM »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fords-ceo-cfo-took-drive-085242599.html

Ford CEO admits that the Chinese are ahead of the big 3 automakers on EVs.     

They are the future.    The only question is how far in the future?    And when will America start seriously working on an appropriate charging infrastructure?
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

lawdog77

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Re: The return of EVs thread
« Reply #85 on: September 18, 2024, 03:15:26 PM »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fords-ceo-cfo-took-drive-085242599.html

Ford CEO admits that the Chinese are ahead of the big 3 automakers on EVs.     

They are the future.    The only question is how far in the future?    And when will America start seriously working on an appropriate charging infrastructure?
Agree. I posted awhile back that China is building an EV factory in Turkey to get around the European tariffs which is 38%.

jesmu84

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Re: The return of EVs thread
« Reply #86 on: September 18, 2024, 06:37:42 PM »
Is banning ICE cars at the state level constitutional?

Okay boomer

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: The return of EVs thread
« Reply #87 on: September 29, 2024, 06:52:51 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODG59UjBiGg

CNBC report on the slowing adoption of EV vehicles and how it is leading to poor factory utilization.
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tower912

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Re: The return of EVs thread
« Reply #88 on: September 29, 2024, 10:46:31 AM »
The Chinese going all in on EVs is going to force the world's automakers to step up their EV product.   The market is simply too large to not be a part of.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

jesmu84

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Re: The return of EVs thread
« Reply #89 on: September 29, 2024, 11:10:20 AM »
The Chinese going all in on EVs is going to force the world's automakers to step up their EV product.   The market is simply too large to not be a part of.

Nope. The US automakers will continue to lag behind

Uncle Rico

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Re: The return of EVs thread
« Reply #90 on: October 01, 2024, 10:17:40 AM »
Kwik Trip went woke and added EV stations.  Are we boycotting?
Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

 

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