RIP Pete Rose

[Uncle Rico]

One of the greats.  Just couldn't get out of his own way for too long.  Was never a fan but what a ball player

[The Sultan]

The good news is that his lifetime Hall of Fame ban has been lifted.

[WhiteTrash]

The good news is that his lifetime Hall of Fame ban has been lifted.

Hasn't helped Shoeless Joe.

[Jockey]

I'm betting that it's fake news.

[Herman Cain]

Pete Rose was an all time .  Was the driving force of The Big Red Machine. Closest thing in the modern  era to Ty Cobb

The Hall of Fame issue should be re examined in light of the modern sports betting culture.

https://nypost.com/2024/09/30/sports/pete-rose-mlbs-controversial-all-time-hits-leader-dead-at-83/

[Uncle Rico]

Pete Rose was an all time .  Was the driving force of The Big Red Machine. Closest thong in the moden era to Ty Cobb

The Hall of Fame issue should be re examined in light of the modern sports betting vulture

https://nypost.com/2024/09/30/sports/pete-rose-mlbs-controversial-all-time-hits-leader-dead-at-83/

What about the child rape?  We know you're fine with it but others might not be

[MU82]

Rose bet on baseball - including games involving his own team.

That's still forbidden today.

And he knew when he did it that he'd be in deep doo-doo if caught.

He was a great ballplayer but he disgraced himself and the game.

[tower912]

As much as he was a hero of my youth, betting on a game you are participating in is unforgiveable.

RIP

[SoCalEagle]

Pete Rose was an all time .  Was the driving force of The Big Red Machine. Closest thong in the moden era to Ty Cobb

The Hall of Fame issue should be re examined in light of the modern sports betting culture.

https://nypost.com/2024/09/30/sports/pete-rose-mlbs-controversial-all-time-hits-leader-dead-at-83/

The time when Cobb played is considered to be the modern era of baseball.

[WhiteTrash]

Pete Rose was an all time .  Was the driving force of The Big Red Machine. Closest thing in the modern  era to Ty Cobb

The Hall of Fame issue should be re examined in light of the modern sports betting culture.

https://nypost.com/2024/09/30/sports/pete-rose-mlbs-controversial-all-time-hits-leader-dead-at-83/

As others have said, there is nothing in the current day that suggests his actions were or are acceptable. The NBA just banned a bench player for betting. The "re examined" statement makes zero sense.

[Shaka Shart]

What about the child rape?  We know you're fine with it but others might not be

"It was 55 years ago, babe."

[Lennys Tap]

Rose was the least talented superstar I ever watched. Not much power, mediocre arm, average speed - but every day he left nothing on the table. On the field I admired him as much as anyone I ever saw play.

Off the field he was a mess.

[SoCalEagle]

A player can have 21 seasons in a row with 200 hits and still not break Pete's record. 

For context, only two players had 200 or more hits in all of major league baseball this season. 

[MU1in77]

Do you think he bet the over/under 83?

[wadesworld]

Rose was the least talented superstar I ever watched. Not much power, mediocre arm, average speed - but every day he left nothing on the table. On the field I admired him as much as anyone I ever saw play.

Off the field he was a mess.

Game manager.

[Jockey]

A player can have 21 seasons in a row with 200 hits and still not break Pete's record. 

For context, only two players had 200 or more hits in all of major league baseball this season.

It's a different game.

[Lennys Tap]

Game manager.

Still delusional but I like your consistency!

[Lennys Tap]

As much as he was a hero of my youth, betting on a game you are participating in is unforgiveable.

RIP

Unforgivable? Interesting.

[Mutaman]

What about the child rape?  We know you're fine with it but others might not be

Just expelled about 75% of the members of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

[Mutaman]

Rose bet on baseball - including games involving his own team.

That's still forbidden today.

This post was brought to you by Fan Duel.  FanDuel, the official gambling partner of MLB.  FanDuel, you can bet your mortgage payment on it. Shohei who?

[tower912]

Unforgivable? Interesting.

From an MLB perspective, yes.   They still haven't forgiven Shoeless Joe, either.   

[CTWarrior]

A player can have 21 seasons in a row with 200 hits and still not break Pete's record. 

For context, only two players had 200 or more hits in all of major league baseball this season.

His record won't be broken.  The focus on OBP mean players will walk more and get hits less (see Ted Williams.  Maybe best hitter ever but due to all the walks never had a 200 hit season, even the year he hit .406.)  Players also don't seem to play 155+ games a year or more anymore (probably because no greenies).  Finally, no future player will get to manage himself and put regularly himself in the lineup long after he was a useful player.  He got his last 884 PAs and roughly 200 hits managing himself as a poor hitter with no defensive value in his mid-forties to break the record. 

Don't want to take away from Rose the player, though.  Up until he hit 40, he was pretty much a metronome of consistency, and he played the game like his life depended on it, something I wish we'd see more of today.

Ichiro broke the hit record, if you count Japan.  And there is good reason to believe he would have gotten more hits if he started his career in the US, since his hits per year jumped upon getting here (partly due to more games per season).  When Ichiro and Rose learned baseball concentrating on driving up pitch counts and getting walks was not emphasized.

[MU82]

This post was brought to you by Fan Duel.  FanDuel, the official gambling partner of MLB.  FanDuel, you can bet your mortgage payment on it. Shohei who?

Two things that really have nothing to do with each other, but you are welcome to make believe they do and/or to feign outrage.

[NCMUFan]

As a Cub fan, hated the guy.
But he was a great baseball player.
Charlie Hussle.

[Pakuni]

This post was brought to you by Fan Duel.  FanDuel, the official gambling partner of MLB.  FanDuel, you can bet your mortgage payment on it. Shohei who?

I mean, there's tons of beer ads during football games. Doesn't mean the NFL and NCAA want players drunk on the field.

[WhiteTrash]

I mean, there's tons of beer ads during football games. Doesn't mean the NFL and NCAA want players drunk on the field.

Agreed. I can't see the logic behind the argument.

[Mutaman]

Two things that really have nothing to do with each other, but you are welcome to make believe they do and/or to feign outrage.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

[JWags85]

Rose was the least talented superstar I ever watched. Not much power, mediocre arm, average speed - but every day he left nothing on the table. On the field I admired him as much as anyone I ever saw play.

Ichiro broke the hit record, if you count Japan.  And there is good reason to believe he would have gotten more hits if he started his career in the US, since his hits per year jumped upon getting here (partly due to more games per season).  When Ichiro and Rose learned baseball concentrating on driving up pitch counts and getting walks was not emphasized.

This is such a great contrast.  Rose played like he did cause it was basically the extent of his skills.  Balls out hustle and limited ability/upside.

Meanwhile, Ichiro was a 5 tool player who hit the way he did for absolute efficiency and effect.  He had a cannon, was a weapon on the base paths (Rose rarely stole and only had 15+ stolen bases twice in his career whereas Ichiro was nearly a guaranteed 35, if not 40, until he was basically 40).

Nearly everyone who played with Ichiro said he could have hit for more power if he wanted to, whereas Rose basically tapped out what he could.  It speaks highly to Rose's mentality and work ethich, but I think if you were given the choice of either in their prime, nobody would take Rose.

[MU82]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

Cool. It's still a bannable offense for baseball players and managers to bet on baseball.

When you have proof that Ohtani or other current players have done so, I respectfully ask you to submit it. Thanks!

[CTWarrior]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

This isn't that complicated.  Professional teams cannot have anybody with an obligation to participate in a game in any manner betting on the sport, because that opens up the possibility that the games are not on the level.  It has to have the severest form of punishment possible because violating that rule affects the integrity of the game and could cause its downfall.

That is different than taking a share of the money that another legal business is making off of their product.  I hate that those companies are legal and gambling does a lot of harm.  But so does alcohol and I do like the occasional G & T so it would make me hypocritical to think that gambling should be banned, too.

[Mutaman]

If MLB could have made a buck by reinstating Rose, they would have reinstated Rose.

[Uncle Rico]

If MLB could have made a buck by reinstating Rose, they would have reinstated Rose.

You don't think they'd have made money reinstating Rose?  Seriously?

[tower912]

If MLB could have made a buck by reinstating Rose, they would have reinstated Rose.

Have they reinstated the Black Sox yet?

Kennesaw Mountain Landis took one look at Joe Jackson and said...

If my eyes don't deceive me
There's something going wrong around here...

[Lennys Tap]

You don't think they'd have made money reinstating Rose?  Seriously?

You're right on this Rico - Pete Rose's induction into the HOF would have been bigger than any that have gone before.

I get why he's banned. Gambling on baseball is the third rail. Ironically, Pete Rose might have been the absolute last guy to ever play who would bet against his own team. He didn't know how to take his foot off the gas pedal even in exhibition games - ask Ray Fosse. If I were a manager I'd want every guy on my team betting on my team - as long as they didn't get caught, of course.

[MU82]

A manager who bets on his own team could make decisions that hurt his players.

For example ...

Closer Sam already has had some arm problems in his career and he has pitched in 3 straight games. He desperately needs a day off. But the manager has bet on the fourth game, so he sends Sam out there despite knowing he is putting Sam at risk for injury.

Starter Joe has never thrown more than 100 pitches in a game in his entire career. But he is pitching well and the manager has big money on the game, so what the hell ... push him to 110 or 120 or more pitches.

One could come up with other examples why the manager should never bet, including on his own team - especially now that one can bet on pretty much every little thing that happens in a ballgame.

Moreover, it's simply against the rules, and everybody knows the consequences.

[Lennys Tap]

A manager who bets on his own team could make decisions that hurt his players.

For example ...

Closer Sam already has had some arm problems in his career and he has pitched in 3 straight games. He desperately needs a day off. But the manager has bet on the fourth game, so he sends Sam out there despite knowing he is putting Sam at risk for injury.

Starter Joe has never thrown more than 100 pitches in a game in his entire career. But he is pitching well and the manager has big money on the game, so what the hell ... push him to 110 or 120 or more pitches.

One could come up with other examples why the manager should never bet, including on his own team - especially now that one can bet on pretty much every little thing that happens in a ballgame.

Moreover, it's simply against the rules, and everybody knows the consequences.

Possible, I guess. But not likely imo. Anyway, my statement was (as a manager) wanting 25 players who bet on us to win.

[MU82]

Possible, I guess. But not likely imo. Anyway, my statement was (as a manager) wanting 25 players who bet on us to win.

As a manager, I want zero players to bet on us to win because it's against the rules and I want what's best for them, and I don't want any of them to be suspended or banned forever.

I simply trust that my players will play to win.

And I think it's quite likely that there were occasions when Rose did not have his players' best interests in mind as he desperately tried to win large, illegal wagers.

[Lennys Tap]

And I think it's quite likely that there were occasions when Rose did not have his players' best interests in mind as he desperately tried to win large, illegal wagers.

And I think quite unlikely, so unlikely that I'd place a large bet against it!

[MU82]

And I think quite unlikely, so unlikely that I'd place a large bet against it!

Nicely done.