Shaka might not be the forever coach.

[tower912]

Make a complaint jar.   Like a swear jar.  Every time you complain about MU drop a buck in a jar.   Turn it over to NIL.

[The Sultan]

Make a complaint jar.   Like a swear jar.  Every time you complain about MU drop a buck in a jar.   Turn it over to NIL.

Why do you want to bankrupt willie?

[willie warrior]

I am sure that if Scoop were around in Al's days, you would have trashed him too. It's your
nature.

You don't have a clue about that.
And you are wrong as usual. I just proved your BS statement wrong and now you digress to denigrating when you do not know me. Guess you go to the ignore button.

[The Sultan]

You don't have a clue about that.
And you are wrong as usual. I just proved your BS statement wrong and now you digress to denigrating when you do not know me. Guess you go to the ignore button.

You didn't prove anything.

[Uncle Rico]

This thread is fun

[The Sultan]

This thread is fun

Started by the guy who just yesterday compared Shaka to Wojo.

[NCMUFan]

Resurrected a thread that is 10 months old.
Guess it will come up every time the team hits a rough stretch.

[tower912]

On Scoop, hot bad takes are forever. You are only as good as your dumbest take.

[1SE]

Shaka's great, he has built a great culture and done a superb job in developing guys and making his teams more than the sum of their parts. I hope we keep him for a long time. But, for this fan at least, I stand by NCAA success that also needs to come - we've had a taste. Who do we talk about as his best peer-contemporaries - TJO and Nate Oates? Nate has 2 conf. titles, 2 S16s, a FF and 4 appearances in 4 years. TJO has 2 S16s and 3 appearances in 3 years. Shaka? 1 S16, 1 conf title and 3 appearances in 3 years. Worse than Oates - maybe say equal to TJO (trade the S16 for the title?). He's there with those guys - but which one is most likely to get a natty?

Almost more than anything else this year, I'd like to see Shaka win at least one NCAAT game that he shouldn't - or, frankly, even a toss-up. Our 3 NCAAT wins are against 2 15 seeds and a 10 seed. We've lost to an 8, an 11 and 7. TJO has beat a 3, a 6, a 7 and a 16 and lost to a 3, a 10, and an 11. That could be a real silver lining if we don't right the ship as well as we should over the next 7. Make the S16 as a 5 seed beating a 4 seed? That would be a positive for me and I'd almost rather see that than make the S16 as a 2 seed (but, of course, I'd MUCH rather go E8 as a 2 seed than make the S16 as a 5 seed).

I'm not saying we should (or could) have hired either of those guys - or that I would "trade" Shaka for either of them even now. But I'm saying they're probably the best "peers" for Shaka.

You don't care about NCAAT success? You just want a coach the fields a competitive team that can give you "entertaining" losses and is high character? That's fine too. But I don't think you can argue that Shaka is still unproven when it comes to NCAAT success at MU and that if that's your criteria for a forever coach its fair for the jury to still be out.

[1SE]

Because if we're ever gonna win a natty, we'll likely have to win at least 1 NCATT game we "shouldn't"

[The Sultan]

Shaka's great, he has built a great culture and done a superb job in developing guys and making his teams more than the sum of their parts. I hope we keep him for a long time. But, for this fan at least, I stand by NCAA success that also needs to come - we've had a taste. Who do we talk about as his best peer-contemporaries - TJO and Nate Oates? Nate has 2 conf. titles, 2 S16s, a FF and 4 appearances in 4 years. TJO has 2 S16s and 3 appearances in 3 years. Shaka? 1 S16, 1 conf title and 3 appearances in 3 years. Worse than Oates - maybe say equal to TJO (trade the S16 for the title?). He's there with those guys - but which one is most likely to get a natty?

Almost more than anything else this year, I'd like to see Shaka win at least one NCAAT game that he shouldn't - or, frankly, even a toss-up. Our 3 NCAAT wins are against 2 15 seeds and a 10 seed. We've lost to an 8, an 11 and 7. TJO has beat a 3, a 6, a 7 and a 16 and lost to a 3, a 10, and an 11. That could be a real silver lining if we don't right the ship as well as we should over the next 7. Make the S16 as a 5 seed beating a 4 seed? That would be a positive for me and I'd almost rather see that than make the S16 as a 2 seed (but, of course, I'd MUCH rather go E8 as a 2 seed than make the S16 as a 5 seed).

I'm not saying we should (or could) have hired either of those guys - or that I would "trade" Shaka for either of them even now. But I'm saying they're probably the best "peers" for Shaka.

You don't care about NCAAT success? You just want a coach the fields a competitive team that can give you "entertaining" losses and is high character? That's fine too. But I don't think you can argue that Shaka is still unproven when it comes to NCAAT success at MU and that if that's your criteria for a forever coach its fair for the jury to still be out.

You compared him to Wojo.

[Elonsmusk]

Shaka's great, he has built a great culture and done a superb job in developing guys and making his teams more than the sum of their parts. I hope we keep him for a long time. But, for this fan at least, I stand by NCAA success that also needs to come - we've had a taste. Who do we talk about as his best peer-contemporaries - TJO and Nate Oates? Nate has 2 conf. titles, 2 S16s, a FF and 4 appearances in 4 years. TJO has 2 S16s and 3 appearances in 3 years. Shaka? 1 S16, 1 conf title and 3 appearances in 3 years. Worse than Oates - maybe say equal to TJO (trade the S16 for the title?). He's there with those guys - but which one is most likely to get a natty?

Almost more than anything else this year, I'd like to see Shaka win at least one NCAAT game that he shouldn't - or, frankly, even a toss-up. Our 3 NCAAT wins are against 2 15 seeds and a 10 seed. We've lost to an 8, an 11 and 7. TJO has beat a 3, a 6, a 7 and a 16 and lost to a 3, a 10, and an 11. That could be a real silver lining if we don't right the ship as well as we should over the next 7. Make the S16 as a 5 seed beating a 4 seed? That would be a positive for me and I'd almost rather see that than make the S16 as a 2 seed (but, of course, I'd MUCH rather go E8 as a 2 seed than make the S16 as a 5 seed).

I'm not saying we should (or could) have hired either of those guys - or that I would "trade" Shaka for either of them even now. But I'm saying they're probably the best "peers" for Shaka.

You don't care about NCAAT success? You just want a coach the fields a competitive team that can give you "entertaining" losses and is high character? That's fine too. But I don't think you can argue that Shaka is still unproven when it comes to NCAAT success at MU and that if that's your criteria for a forever coach its fair for the jury to still be out.

Dude, he's in Year 4 at MU, and largely has overachieved every year to get to the 2 seed line the last two years.  Unfortunately they didn't advance further in the NCAA's each of the last two years, but FFS his time at MU has been the best since Al.  And he's an absolute star of a human being.  I liked Buzz, but Buzz was an odd duck, for sure.

Beyond this, some of Scoop is melting down because we lost 3 games in a row to 3 of the the top Big East teams, two of which were on the road.  A coach can only do so much, and in each of the last 3 games, there have been massive outliers as far as expected outcomes based on shot quality.

People questioning or complaining about this team and its coaching, honestly come off as spoiled brats.  The team plays its heart out, and Shaka is an amazing leader and without question a Top 10 coach in the sport.  Yet we have some fans dissatisfied??

[wadesworld]

Dude, he's in Year 4 at MU, and largely has overachieved every year to get to the 2 seed line the last two years.  Unfortunately they didn't advance further in the NCAA's each of the last two years, but FFS his time at MU has been the best since Al.  And he's an absolute star of a human being.  I liked Buzz, but Buzz was an odd duck, for sure.

Beyond this, some of Scoop is melting down because we lost 3 games in a row to 3 of the the top Big East teams, two of which were on the road.  A coach can only do so much, and in each of the last 3 games, there have been massive outliers as far as expected outcomes based on shot quality.

People questioning or complaining about this team and its coaching, honestly come off as spoiled brats.  The team plays its heart out, and Shaka is an amazing leader and without question a Top 10 coach in the sport.  Yet we have some fans dissatisfied??

Agree with just about all of this.  I'm not sure I agree he's a top 10 coach in college basketball, and definitely don't agree it's without question.  Boarder line for me.

Love Shaka, but without a doubt (to me) better coaches include Hurley, Self, Sampson, Painter, Few, Izzo, Pitino, Pearl, Barnes.  Think Scott Drew, Oates, Lloyd, Otzelberger, and Scheyer all have a case to be made.

But I'll take Shaka here for as long as he wants to be here.  And I'll take being a 2 seed (or better) as often as possible.  Keep getting bights at the apple.  We'll break through at some point.

[Shaka Shart]

Agree with just about all of this.  I'm not sure I agree he's a top 10 coach in college basketball, and definitely don't agree it's without question.  Boarder line for me.

Love Shaka, but without a doubt (to me) better coaches include Hurley, Self, Sampson, Painter, Few, Izzo, Pitino, Pearl, Barnes.  Think Scott Drew, Oates, Lloyd, Otzelberger, and Scheyer all have a case to be made.

But I'll take Shaka here for as long as he wants to be here.  And I'll take being a 2 seed (or better) as often as possible.  Keep getting bights at the apple.  We'll break through at some point.

I'm willing to trade the lack of "win an NCAA game he shouldn't" with "Had no business being seeded as high as they achieved in the first few years". You're complaining that they simply overachieved expectations in the season too much so that makes the NCAA losses worse.

[We R Final Four]

Dude, he's in Year 4 at MU, and largely has overachieved every year to get to the 2 seed line the last two years.  Unfortunately they didn't advance further in the NCAA's each of the last two years, but FFS his time at MU has been the best since Al.  And he's an absolute star of a human being.  I liked Buzz, but Buzz was an odd duck, for sure.

Beyond this, some of Scoop is melting down because we lost 3 games in a row to 3 of the the top Big East teams, two of which were on the road.  A coach can only do so much, and in each of the last 3 games, there have been massive outliers as far as expected outcomes based on shot quality.

People questioning or complaining about this team and its coaching, honestly come off as spoiled brats.  The team plays its heart out, and Shaka is an amazing leader and without question a Top 10 coach in the sport.  Yet we have some fans dissatisfied??

Without question a Top 10 coach in the sport?

Alot of great coaches out there.....there certainly is a question if Shaka is top 10.

[MU82]

Shaka might or might not be a top-10 coach in college basketball today, but this definitely is a top-10 dopey thread on Scoop in the last year. And that's saying something.

Ya gotta love the general sentiment of it:

"I'm not saying I don't want Shaka, but I want somebody better than Shaka."

[Uncle Rico]

Shaka might or might not be a top-10 coach in college basketball today, but this definitely is a top-10 dopey thread on Scoop in the last year. And that's saying something.

Ya gotta love the general sentiment of it:

"I'm not saying I don't want Shaka, but I want somebody better than Shaka."

My 3 choices are unchanged:

Brad Stevens, Bruce Pearl or Travis Diener

[1SE]

I'm willing to trade the lack of "win an NCAA game he shouldn't" with "Had no business being seeded as high as they achieved in the first few years". You're complaining that they simply overachieved expectations in the season too much so that makes the NCAA losses worse.

Exactly - I would gladly trade a lower seed for a deeper run. A season that ends at the s16 as a 10 seed is better, in my view, than one ending in the 2nd round as a 2 seed. The fact that we got 2s, and then didn't advance as far as we should, is bad - because if you do all the work to get a 2 seed you should make it pay.

But I judge everything about Shaka and the program on NCAAT success. That is all that matters to me. The regular season only matters in how it sets us up for the tourney. I get upset w regular season losses because of how that impacts our tourney prospects. And, on that metric, while Shaka is definitely better than Wojo, he hasn't yet achieved what Buzz (weirdo) or Crean did. Is he a better coach than those guys? Maybe. Does he build a program I like more? Definitely. But he hasn't yet achieved their success.

I get other people have different views of success and that's fine.

And Shaka is definitely not Wojo,but if we stumble bass-ackwards into a 8 seed and duck out in the first round, it won't be a successful season despite what we did in Nov and Dec. I don't think we'll end up there, but the probability is certainly higher  now than it was 3 weeks ago.

[Elonsmusk]

Without question a Top 10 coach in the sport?

Alot of great coaches out there.....there certainly is a question if Shaka is top 10.

I guess in my view I'm looking at the totality of Shaka beyond X's and O's.  However, I feel it can easily be argued he's been a Top 10 wins/losses coach each of the last 3 years at MU.

The bigger reason I say without question is based on Shaka as a leader of young men, the impact he makes in these kids lives, how he represents Marquette, how he's navigating the NIL era of CBB, at a school that does NOT have nearly the $$$$ available to compete with football schools.

I mean you could say TJO is a better coach, but the guy just comes off as a massive tool.  Bruce Pearl too.  Bill Self.  Not to mention, Self and Pearl are notorious cheaters in their past.

Shaka is a f'in gift to MU and if some irrational, delusional fans bitch him out of town (similar to what happened in Austin), I feel pretty confident in saying that Marquette hoops will take a big step down. 

The argument that we spend Top 10 in Men's college basketball doesn't matter - we did that with Wojo too.  And in this day and age of players getting paid 7 figures?  You better be damn sure you have a charismatic and brilliant head coach at a school like MU.

[Pakuni]

I'm willing to trade the lack of "win an NCAA game he shouldn't" with "Had no business being seeded as high as they achieved in the first few years". You're complaining that they simply overachieved expectations in the season too much so that makes the NCAA losses worse.

I think the "we overachieved" argument tends to lose weight over a full, 35+-game stretch.
If you want to argue that this year's team overachieved over 10-12 games in November and December and is playing now closer to their true capabilities, I'll listen.
But arguing that, for example, the '22-23 team overachieved for 35 games over five months, then came down to earth on a Sunday in mid-March, I'm not buying that. After that many games, you are your record.

[Galway Eagle]

Exactly - I would gladly trade a lower seed for a deeper run. A season that ends at the s16 as a 10 seed is better, in my view, than one ending in the 2nd round as a 2 seed. The fact that we got 2s, and then didn't advance as far as we should, is bad - because if you do all the work to get a 2 seed you should make it pay.

But I judge everything about Shaka and the program on NCAAT success. That is all that matters to me. The regular season only matters in how it sets us up for the tourney. I get upset w regular season losses because of how that impacts our tourney prospects. And, on that metric, while Shaka is definitely better than Wojo, he hasn't yet achieved what Buzz (weirdo) or Crean did. Is he a better coach than those guys? Maybe. Does he build a program I like more? Definitely. But he hasn't yet achieved their success.

I get other people have different views of success and that's fine.

And Shaka is definitely not Wojo,but if we stumble bass-ackwards into a 8 seed and duck out in the first round, it won't be a successful season despite what we did in Nov and Dec. I don't think we'll end up there, but the probability is certainly higher  now than it was 3 weeks ago.

Just to confirm, 2011 > 2023 to you?

[Shaka Shart]

My 3 choices are unchanged:

Brad Stevens, Bruce Pearl or Travis Diener

Wardle doesn't have the grades?

[Its DJOver]

But I judge everything about Shaka and the program on NCAAT success. That is all that matters to me.

Whatcha doing here in February?  We'll see you March 16th when the season starts.

[Nukem2]

Whatcha doing here in February?  We'll see you March 16th when the season starts.

Yep, why is he bothering with this all?

[Uncle Rico]

Wardle doesn't have the grades?

He lost 3 games in a row.  None of the names mentioned above have ever lost 3 games in a row