Best MU team since 1977

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Think last year's team with omax was better. Didn't go as far but that's the tourney for you.

Love this year's team but I agree with you. We could've won the title last year and UCONN winning it as a 4 seed, when we beat them twice, was painful indeed.

Nothing says we can't go win it this year, though!

PS: I also think the 2001-2002 team with Blankson and Henry was better than the FF team yet we lost in round 1.

[CTWarrior]

Love this year's team but I agree with you. We could've won the title last year and UCONN winning it as a 4 seed, when we beat them twice, was painful indeed.

Nothing says we can't go win it this year, though!

PS: I also think the 2001-2002 team with Blankson and Henry was better than the FF team yet we lost in round 1.

Agree on last year vs. this year.  We were a little better last year,  but were very good both years.
Disagree on 2002-2003 - Addition of Robert Jackson and Novak plus a year's more experience for everyone else trumps loss of Blankson and Henry.

[The Sultan]

I'm not convinced we were better last year. We were *healthier* last year. And this team has more experience.

[Galway Eagle]

Hmm.

So after we choked in losing to Michigan State, MSU choked in losing to K-State, which then choked in losing to FAU, which subsequently choked in losing to San Diego State, which really choked in losing to UConn.

As Jerry Lee Lewis woulda sung ... "We ain't jokin', whole lotta chokin' goin' on!"

Against FAU sure, as far as SDSU goes is losing to the number 1 Kenpom team who's seeded higher than you a choke? I don't think so. I don't think you'd call it one either.

[The Sultan]

How would you define choke? Perhaps we have different definitions.

A choke is game you have wrapped up but then give away.

Losing as a favorite isn't a "choke." It's just an upset.

[MU82]

Against FAU sure, as far as SDSU goes is losing to the number 1 Kenpom team who's seeded higher than you a choke? I don't think so. I don't think you'd call it one either.

You're right. I wouldn't call that a choke. Or any of the others.

A choke is game you have wrapped up but then give away.

Losing as a favorite isn't a "choke." It's just an upset.

Exactly.

A favorite losing can be a choke, but it isn't necessarily a choke.

Committing turnovers and missing FTs down the stretch to blow a 12-point lead with 2 minutes to go ... that's an example of a choke.

I'd willingly call Marquette's loss to the Izzos a choke if that's what it was. Creighton's home loss to Marquette in 2019 - THAT was a choke. And we almost choked away our win at St. John's this season. Losing to Michigan State because we didn't play well and couldn't hit shots ... not a choke.

[Galway Eagle]

A choke is game you have wrapped up but then give away.

Losing as a favorite isn't a "choke." It's just an upset.

As I said maybe we have different definitions but seems like yours is not the end all be all.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choke_(sports)

[The Sultan]

As I said maybe we have different definitions but seems like yours is not the end all be all.

I don't really care what Wikipedia says on the matter.

[Galway Eagle]

I don't really care what Wikipedia says on the matter.

That's how I feel about your definition as well. I accept it's true as is mine, I've offered a source you did not. Let me just play out the rest of this conversation for you since I'm not doing this whole "sultans always right" game when my wife's grandmother died.

You'll stubbornly double down claiming to be right without a source and continue to respond to get the last word.

will soon enough throw an ad hominem attack out there yet ignore that it's a logical fallacy discrediting your position saying "that's what you're being"

Then you'll chalk the difference to semantics saying your opinion is right and all others are wrong.

There you go I'm done with this conversation with you. 82, if you'd like to respond go for it.

[The Sultan]

That's how I feel about your definition as well. I accept it's true as is mine, I've offered a source you did not. Let me just play out the rest of this conversation for you since I'm not doing this whole "sultans always right" game when my wife's grandmother died.

You'll stubbornly double down claiming to be right without a source and continue to respond to get the last word.

will soon enough throw an ad hominem attack out there yet ignore that it's a logical fallacy discrediting your position saying "that's what you're being"

Then you'll chalk the difference to semantics saying your opinion is right and all others are wrong.

There you go I'm done with this conversation with you. 82, if you'd like to respond go for it.

White flag noted.

[The Lens]

To the 3 other people who voted 1994, congrats. You know ball.

[MU82]

82, if you'd like to respond go for it.

Nah, aside from repeating that I don't think last year's team (which struggled with its best player injured) "choked," I'll let you have the last word.

[Skatastrophy]

To the 3 other people who voted 1994, congrats. You know ball.

Lost in the Sweet 16? Meh

[Pakuni]

PS: I also think the 2001-2002 team with Blankson and Henry was better than the FF team yet we lost in round 1.

Naw.
2003 Wade > 2002 Wade
Diener starting PG > Henry
Novak off the bench= Diener off the bench
2003 Merritt >> 2002 Merritt
Jackson >>>> Nnamaka

I'll give you ODB over TT.

[StillAWarrior]

A choke is game you have wrapped up but then give away.

Losing as a favorite isn't a "choke." It's just an upset.

Username checks out.


And I generally agree. 

[brewcity77]

This year's team is better than last year's. Record aside, we are a much better, much more connected defensive team. We haven't been as consistent offensively, but the offensive ceiling is just as high. Yes, O-Max was a better individual defender than his replacements, but the overall activity level, competence in switches, and double team timing has really made this a better overall unit.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Lost in the Sweet 16? Meh

Yeah. A blast to be back at that level after plumbing the depths during the Dukiet years, but not in the same conversation with great teams since '77.

[Galway Eagle]

Yeah. A blast to be back at that level after plumbing the depths during the Dukiet years, but not in the same conversation with great teams since '77.

I think 96 was determined to be the top team of the 90s during a thread from a few years ago.

[The Sultan]

Yeah. A blast to be back at that level after plumbing the depths during the Dukiet years, but not in the same conversation with great teams since '77.

Correct. 

[jfp61]

This year's team is better than last year's. Record aside, we are a much better, much more connected defensive team. We haven't been as consistent offensively, but the offensive ceiling is just as high. Yes, O-Max was a better individual defender than his replacements, but the overall activity level, competence in switches, and double team timing has really made this a better overall unit.

Much better? Not necessarily. Nearly the same team. In many ways. Also people are undervaluing the regular season in this whole thread.


Like I think it's fair for the 03 final 4 team to win this poll. But it should not be winning the way it is. Digging deeply I'm not certain they are the best team. They Lack big regular season wins that even last years Shaka team had. Conference USA baby. 2-1 record vs top 25. The UAB conference tournament loss.

It just shouldn't be a runaway

[The Sultan]

Much better? Not necessarily. Nearly the same team. In many ways. Also people are undervaluing the regular season in this whole thread.

Nearly the same players...but they all have an additional year of experience.

[wadesworld]

Our KenPom ranking is lower at the moment (finished last year at 10, currently sit at 13), but our Adjusted Efficiency Margin is higher (currently 22.94, finished last year at 22.38).  And we've had a lot more missed games from key players this year than we had last year (Kolek, Kam, Stevie, Chase all missed multiple games this year, Oso missed a game).

We're a better team this year.

[StillAWarrior]

As I said maybe we have different definitions but seems like yours is not the end all be all.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choke_(sports)

"In sports, choking is the failure of a person, or persons, to act or behave as anticipated or expected."

So we're clear, if a 88% free throw shooter misses one, is that a choke? Because I "expect" him to make the shot.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I think 96 was determined to be the top team of the 90s during a thread from a few years ago.

Which is probably why they are the only '90s era team listed. (I'm presuming you mean top Marquette team of the 90s).

They lead MU back out of the wilderness, but not nearly as talented as the current team IMO.

[Galway Eagle]

"In sports, choking is the failure of a person, or persons, to act or behave as anticipated or expected."

So we're clear, if a 88% free throw shooter misses one, is that a choke? Because I "expect" him to make the shot.

In a vacuum? No, they aren't a 100% free throw shooter. But when Markus Howard was a >90% free throw shooter and would shoot underneath that I'd personally say he choked at the line that game.

Which is probably why they are the only '90s era team listed. (I'm presuming you mean top Marquette team of the 90s).

They lead MU back out of the wilderness, but not nearly as talented as the current team IMO.

94's the only 90s team listed, because as you say they lead MU out of the wilderness plus they made a sweet 16, but a few years ago someone ran a bunch of top teams of each decade or maybe era polls and plenty of people decided 96 (4seed lose to Austin Crosshare and Providence in round of 32) was the better all around team.