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Author Topic: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse  (Read 1719 times)

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« on: March 26, 2024, 03:44:24 AM »
Early this morning in Baltimore a container ship directly hit one of the support columns for the Francis Scott Key Bridge causing it to collapse. The video is unreal.

https://x.com/omarjimenez/status/1772527229601251564?s=46&t=ppua9BCUAa7dWM9-SthPmg
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

rocket surgeon

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2024, 05:11:33 AM »
what a catastrophe!!  praying for the people whose lives are in danger, victims, first responders.  cannot imagine the ramifications of this going forward
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tower912

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2024, 06:08:00 AM »
Thoughts and prayers to all involved.

Spring breaking around there next week to visit my daughter.  Been on that bridge.    That is going to disrupt all harbor traffic for a while.

I-695 is a significant traffic artery, too.   

Look for a quick spike in prices, while shipping companies adjust and make alternate plans.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2024, 06:13:45 AM »
Well this doesn't seem good.

Jay Bee

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2024, 06:17:50 AM »
Brings back memories of our bridge collapse in Minneapolis. Just awful
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tower912

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2024, 06:23:19 AM »
Yes, JB.  That one was awful.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

pbiflyer

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2024, 09:22:15 AM »
Brings back memories of our bridge collapse in Minneapolis. Just awful

One of my coworkers crossed that bridge less than a minute before it collapsed.

This latest one reminds me of the Tampa Skybridge collapse. Seeing that after the fact was stunning and depressing.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2024, 11:22:04 AM »
So it sounds like the ship lost power, and was able to radio in an SOS in time for officials to shut down vehicle access to the bridge. I guess the only people who were on the bridge when it collapsed were 8 construction workers, two of whom were rescued and six are still missing.

That would be pretty amazing if true.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

21Jumpstreet

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2024, 11:29:47 AM »
So it sounds like the ship lost power, and was able to radio in an SOS in time for officials to shut down vehicle access to the bridge. I guess the only people who were on the bridge when it collapsed were 8 construction workers, two of whom were rescued and six are still missing.

That would be pretty amazing if true.

Just heard that, too. Incredible indeed that the authorities were able to evacuate the bridge and keep more cars from traveling onto it in such short order. Very sad for the workers, hopefully the remaining six are rescued.

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2024, 12:03:03 PM »
So it sounds like the ship lost power, and was able to radio in an SOS in time for officials to shut down vehicle access to the bridge. I guess the only people who were on the bridge when it collapsed were 8 construction workers, two of whom were rescued and six are still missing.

That would be pretty amazing if true.

Good thing for safety regulations being followed
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jesmu84

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2024, 12:41:27 PM »
I assume the ship captain was a DEI hire

nyg

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2024, 02:15:01 PM »
The pilot on the vessel had gone thru the Patapsco River entrance almost 40 times. All cargo ship pilots are extremely qualified and are paid extremely well.

Ship gave mayday three minutes before crash.  Many vehicles were stopped by Maryland Transportation Police and workers on the scene.  Ship had major power loss and lost propulsion and hydraulic pressure to control directional control. It was carrying over 600 containers and the steel beam came down on the forward portion of the ship.  Thank goodness the ship did not capsize. 

8 workers on bridge doing concrete work for potholes.  Two ran and made it off major crash area.  One made it off bridge, the other in the water.  Both survived.  The other six, probably not, water temperature is 46 degrees and very bad current which leads out to the Chesapeake Bay.  May never be found.  There might have been six vehicles that went in the water, but no knowledge if occupied or the vehicles assigned to the workers on bridge.

Commuters are going to go thru hell.  The bridge crash cuts off the beltway and commuters going to have to travel thru the two tunnels to side roads, back streets to get to the southeast side of Baltimore.  Trucks will also have to travel around and be careful because the two tunnels leading to I95 have height restrictions and any trucks containing hazardous materials(gas trucks, etc.) cannot go through the tunnels.  Will have to travel on west side of the beltway to get to I-95. That was one of main reasons Key Bridge was built, to carry hazardous material trucks around Baltimore.

Container ships are not going anywhere or arriving anytime soon.  Baltimore a big port with coal, vehicles and sugar the main commerce.  It also has cruise ships which leave 4 or 5 times a week.  Current containers at the port will now have to be moved out by tractor trailers to new ports, probably Norfolk and South Carolina.  Can't imagine where the trucks come from, since one ship can hold 600 or more containers, that's 600 tractor trailers.  People who ordered new vehicles, well the wait is on.  Coal and sugar, no knowledge on how they are transported.

The goal is to continue the search for the missing workers.  Then get debris out of the center portion of the crash area in order for the ships to return to somewhat normal operations, then work on debris to the left and to the right.  Have not heard how long the process to build new bridge, but they have already contacted engineering firms and Biden said the US will pay for everything.  Then you have environmental groups awaiting........Going to be a long process and just a mess for residents and commuters.

New info:

Looks like the some of the workers were on a 30 minute break and were in their vehicles at the time of the crash. Ugh....   
« Last Edit: March 26, 2024, 02:26:39 PM by nyg »

Scoop Snoop

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2024, 02:37:37 PM »
Thank you for your post. Your comments about survival prospects in 46 degree water are unfortunately very true. I was around bodies of water and currents for much of my life and am very familiar with their quick and deadly effect on humans.
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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2024, 02:58:02 PM »
While I’m a big Biden fan, his statement where he said the US government will pay for any and all repairs is simple pandering.

It’s an Interstate highway. Of course the Feds pay.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2024, 03:05:03 PM »
While I’m a big Biden fan, his statement where he said the US government will pay for any and all repairs is simple pandering.

It’s an Interstate highway. Of course the Feds pay.

Yeah that's not how it works. Even interstate highways are a mix of federal grants and state resources like a gas tax, and have to go through several steps long prior to construction. Furthermore, the interstate highway and bridge are legally the property of the State of Maryland.

He is talking about a direct appropriation with Congressional approval to pay for 100% of it. That's not how projects are usually funded.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2024, 03:24:30 PM by The Sultan of Semantics »
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Spotcheck Billy

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2024, 03:21:50 PM »
They might move some the containers via intermodal instead of all on trucks.

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2024, 03:45:29 PM »
Yeah that's not how it works. Even interstate highways are a mix of federal grants and state resources like a gas tax, and have to go through several steps long prior to construction. Furthermore, the interstate highway and bridge are legally the property of the State of Maryland.

He is talking about a direct appropriation with Congressional approval to pay for 100% of it. That's not how projects are usually funded.

This is correct, and honestly could make it take longer. State agencies are better equipped to mobilize, partner and contract better than the Feds. Mayor Pete should give Maryland DOT a checkbook and let them get to work.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2024, 03:49:31 PM »
This is correct, and honestly could make it take longer. State agencies are better equipped to mobilize, partner and contract better than the Feds. Mayor Pete should give Maryland DOT a checkbook and let them get to work.

Isn't that what they did with Pennsylvania when the I-95 bridge collapsed last year?
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Pakuni

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2024, 03:50:21 PM »

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2024, 03:57:22 PM »
Yeah that's not how it works. Even interstate highways are a mix of federal grants and state resources like a gas tax, and have to go through several steps long prior to construction. Furthermore, the interstate highway and bridge are legally the property of the State of Maryland.

He is talking about a direct appropriation with Congressional approval to pay for 100% of it. That's not how projects are usually funded.

Thanks for the info.

BrewCity83

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2024, 03:57:30 PM »
Why isn't the shipping company/ship owner and their insurance company(s) responsible for the cost of repairs?  They caused the damages.
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Spotcheck Billy

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2024, 04:00:06 PM »
Why isn't the shipping company/ship owner and their insurance company(s) responsible for the cost of repairs?  They caused the damages.

But that would take years in court to collect.

tower912

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2024, 04:03:31 PM »
Mitigate the situation. Rebuild the bridge.  Litigate later.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2024, 04:06:56 PM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Pakuni

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2024, 04:05:40 PM »
Why isn't the shipping company/ship owner and their insurance company(s) responsible for the cost of repairs?  They caused the damages.

The government at some point could seek restitution, but a payout like that is likely to be subject to lengthy litigation (surprisingly, insurance companies tend to balk at $1 billion claims) that would postpone repairs for years.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2024, 04:10:29 PM by Pakuni »

Spotcheck Billy

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2024, 04:07:04 PM »
The Dali has a capacity of 10,000 TEU's. That comes to a lot more than 600 containers.

BrewCity83

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2024, 04:07:21 PM »
I'm not advocating for waiting for an insurance check.  Get to work now--but pursue those at fault.
The shaka sign, sometimes known as "hang loose", is a gesture of friendly intent often associated with Hawaii and surf culture.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2024, 04:09:59 PM »
The NTSB will do a thorough investigation to determine the root cause of the accident. Yeah the ship ran into the bridge, but what caused the ship to lose power? I don't know much about how a ship works, but what if it was bad fuel? Or poorly performed engine maintenance?

Let the investigation run its course, but in the meantime get the port back to normal ASAP, and the bridge reconstructed in a reasonable timeframe.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

nyg

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2024, 04:14:06 PM »
Why isn't the shipping company/ship owner and their insurance company(s) responsible for the cost of repairs?  They caused the damages.

That was actually brought up not too long ago by some news guy.  The governments could sue the shipping company subsequent to the NTSB investigation's conclusion via a civil suit.  It would take years, due to the billions it is going to cost and the litigation, but if there was such a judgement, then they would reimburse the governments in an awarded monetary amount towards the recovery build costs.  As of now, it looks like an accident based upon some ship issue, maybe some engine/systems fire and not human error.  NTSB interviewing the pilots and crew now.  NTSB has their crap together, just watch an episode of "Airline Disasters", which are a lot more complicated than this incident.

BTW, the 600 containers was just an estimate, and the ship supposedly weighed 95,000 tons. 

Hards Alumni

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2024, 04:14:20 PM »
Mitigate the situation. Rebuild the bridge.  Litigate later.

Trust the process, five years to judge

tower912

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2024, 04:17:07 PM »
Ironically accurate.  The process will lead to a bridge.   Doing it and determining fault will probably take 5 years.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2024, 04:21:10 PM »
NTSB has their crap together, just watch an episode of "Airline Disasters", which are a lot more complicated than this incident.

One of my absolute favorite shows. I stumbled upon it when I was banished to the bedroom with COVID - I think I watched 15-20 episodes over the course of a weekend.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

nyg

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2024, 04:31:56 PM »
This article is for Tower:

Audio from Fire Departments, mainly Battalion Chiefs, miss the days of chaos radio talk.  Scroll down article to Youtube post:

https://wjla.com/news/local/dispatch-audio-captures-the-moments-the-key-bridge-collapsed-in-baltimore#


nyg

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2024, 04:54:24 PM »
One of my absolute favorite shows. I stumbled upon it when I was banished to the bedroom with COVID - I think I watched 15-20 episodes over the course of a weekend.

Yes, an awesome show, dealing with facts and evidence, and putting it all together. NTSB guys are crazy good and intellectual. No speculation, rumors, comedy, etc.

Now, next time you are under the weather, go to On Demand, Investigative Discovery Channel and watch:

- See No Evil
- The Murder Tapes

Real work....

One other I found fascinating was on the History Channel called "The Food That Built America".  I learned more about food, inventions, advertising, patents, company buyouts and binge watched every episodes.

Sorry for takeover thread, if I hear more from sources on bridge, I'll advise.

jesmu84

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2024, 04:57:21 PM »
If east Palestine was any indication, I'm sure this accident will be forgotten about shortly. And no significant repercussions

tower912

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2024, 05:05:18 PM »
Those guys had their stuff together.  First responder porn.  Thanks, NYG.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2024, 05:13:43 PM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Plaque Lives Matter!

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2024, 06:52:53 PM »
The economic impacts of this will be a pain, but very interesting to see unfold. The building process is a little more extensive than an overpass repair. That's for sure.

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2024, 07:40:38 PM »
Isn't that what they did with Pennsylvania when the I-95 bridge collapsed last year?

For the hard temporary work, yes. Same with the Sanibel Island bridges.

However, for the permanent work over waters of the United States, the Army Corp still has their say. Which delayed the Fort Myers area efforts drasticallly.

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2024, 07:42:15 PM »
(surprisingly, insurance companies tend to balk at $1 billion claims)

Billions.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2024, 07:47:57 PM »
For the hard temporary work, yes. Same with the Sanibel Island bridges.

However, for the permanent work over waters of the United States, the Army Corp still has their say. Which delayed the Fort Myers area efforts drasticallly.



Ahh...gotcha.
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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2024, 08:38:37 PM »

Ahh...gotcha.

But with the vast majority of the super structure still in fine condition, it shouldn’t be the worst.

Get the harbor cleared and rebuild the destroyed pier. In the meantime, prefabricate the arches, spans and decks. Materials will be the biggest delay.

It’s not crazy to think some traffic is using it come 12 months from now.

jesmu84

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2024, 10:29:28 PM »
Quote
The company that chartered the ship that destroyed the Key Bridge was just sanctioned by regulators for silencing whistleblowers raising safety concerns.

Sounds like more late stage capitalism ala Norfolk southern, Boeing, etc

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2024, 07:46:12 AM »
Sounds like Baltimore port traffic will be diverted all over the East Coast.

https://www.wtnh.com/news/connecticut/new-haven/could-baltimore-cargo-traffic-be-rerouted-to-new-haven/

Could Baltimore cargo traffic be rerouted to New Haven?
by: Tina Detelj

Posted: Mar 26, 2024 / 04:57 PM EDT
Updated: Mar 27, 2024 / 05:44 AM EDT

4everwarriors

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2024, 07:53:33 AM »
While I’m a big Biden fan, his statement where he said the US government will pay for any and all repairs is simple pandering.

It’s an Interstate highway. Of course the Feds pay.


Nah, typical Buffoonery, aina?

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The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2024, 07:59:22 AM »
Nah, typical Buffoonery, aina?

Zero reason to turn this political...
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

dgies9156

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2024, 08:22:03 AM »
Yeah that's not how it works. Even interstate highways are a mix of federal grants and state resources like a gas tax, and have to go through several steps long prior to construction. Furthermore, the interstate highway and bridge are legally the property of the State of Maryland.

He is talking about a direct appropriation with Congressional approval to pay for 100% of it. That's not how projects are usually funded.

Interstate highways are paid through the Highway Trust Fund. The trust was established in 1956 as part of the Interstate Highway Act. The federal government paid 80 percent of the Interstate Highway system's construction with the remaining 20 percent coming from the states. You pay the highway trust fund every time you buy gasoline.

President Biden was addressing two issues. The first is the financial need to accelerate the design and construction of a replacement artery. That needs to be done as quickly as possible, though anything that large will still take years (see the aftereffect of the Sunshine Skyway collapse in 1980 near Tampa). The second is the political reality of quick and forceful action.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2024, 08:23:56 AM by dgies9156 »

4everwarriors

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2024, 08:23:33 AM »
Zero reason to turn this political...



Check Jockey's response first and tell me that isn't political, hey?
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The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2024, 08:26:57 AM »
Check Jockey's response first and tell me that isn't political, hey?

Nope it wasn't. It was a statement about a policy decision related to the topic at hand.

You just offered an old and tired insult. But that's pretty much all you do these days anyway I guess.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

dgies9156

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2024, 08:27:46 AM »
Why isn't the shipping company/ship owner and their insurance company(s) responsible for the cost of repairs?  They caused the damages.

Good luck collecting. It is doubtful the shipowner would have that much liability insurance. Moreover, that kind of claim probably would bankrupt the insurance carriers and/or reinsurers.

4everwarriors

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2024, 10:09:50 AM »
Nope it wasn't. It was a statement about a policy decision related to the topic at hand.

You just offered an old and tired insult. But that's pretty much all you do these days anyway I guess.



Opinions are like ass holes, everyone's got one, aina?
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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2024, 06:01:11 AM »
 lost among all the obvious tragedy of personal and physical tragedy is the train line that carried "some" millions of miles of commutes from Delaware to DC with brown paper bag lunches in hand and...wait...there wasn't an Amtrak or train line on the bridge?  what the...must be a different bridge he was thinking of.  idk, that many commutes would be difficult to forget, but anyhoo, back to the ice cream shop for the flav of the day
don't...don't don't don't don't

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2024, 06:07:46 AM »
lost among all the obvious tragedy of personal and physical tragedy is the train line that carried "some" millions of miles of commutes from Delaware to DC with brown paper bag lunches in hand and...wait...there wasn't an Amtrak or train line on the bridge?  what the...must be a different bridge he was thinking of.  idk, that many commutes would be difficult to forget, but anyhoo, back to the ice cream shop for the flav of the day

8 out of 10
Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2024, 06:15:38 AM »
.5 out of 10.  So weak that it is inconsequential.  And irrelevant to the situation. 
« Last Edit: March 28, 2024, 06:18:00 AM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2024, 08:00:59 AM »
lost among all the obvious tragedy of personal and physical tragedy is the train line that carried "some" millions of miles of commutes from Delaware to DC with brown paper bag lunches in hand and...wait...there wasn't an Amtrak or train line on the bridge?  what the...must be a different bridge he was thinking of.  idk, that many commutes would be difficult to forget, but anyhoo, back to the ice cream shop for the flav of the day


Ah.

I have seen the typical suspects have found a way to make this political. I really can't imagine someone's life being consumed politics like this.
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Uncle Rico

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2024, 08:22:08 AM »

Ah.

I have seen the typical suspects have found a way to make this political. I really can't imagine someone's life being consumed politics like this.

I wonder if Scott Drew ever drove over it?
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wadesworld

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2024, 08:39:31 AM »
I wonder if Scott Drew ever drove over it?

Maybe he got lost on his drive from Waco to Louisville.
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tower912

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2024, 09:11:51 AM »
Meh.  First, still honoring and mourning the dead. 
  Removing the bridge from the boat is going to take weeks, if not months. The logistics are a nightmare.  After that, clearing the channel of debris in order to reopen the port is another several weeks, if not months.  Maybe all done by Christmas?  Probably a year.  Oh, yeah, and finally then, rebuilding the bridge can commence.
   The economic impact is going to be felt through the US economy in the short and Intermediate range.  Figuring out the new supply chain realities will take time, cause delays, and drive up prices.  That should eventually settle.
   The impact on the Baltimore and Maryland economies is going to be more severe and longer lasting.   Job losses for the longshoreman and related industries.  In certain areas, with the bridge down, what was a 20 minute commute will now be a 2 hour commute.
    Good luck, Baltimore.
   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

JWags85

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2024, 09:48:18 AM »
   The impact on the Baltimore and Maryland economies is going to be more severe and longer lasting.   Job losses for the longshoreman and related industries.  In certain areas, with the bridge down, what was a 20 minute commute will now be a 2 hour commute.
    Good luck, Baltimore.   

In non-snarky fashion, for a city that has had a lot of justified black eyes and bad press over the last decade, this could be a nice chance to buckle down, circle the wagons, and nail the response to this.  Then leverage it into a lot of positive press and good change for the city/area as a rebound.

tower912

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2024, 09:52:18 AM »
Yes.  There is an opportunity.   Hopefully, they are smarter than the Bears or Packers management
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Jockey

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2024, 09:54:59 AM »
.5 out of 10.  So weak that it is inconsequential.  And irrelevant to the situation.

Unc gives higher scores for badness. So yours is like a 9.5. In the same ballpark.

Jockey

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2024, 09:56:36 AM »


Opinions are like ass holes, everyone's got one, aina?

Everyone’s got one - doesn’t mean everybody is one.

jesmu84

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2024, 10:06:56 AM »
The dental school must have had lead in the water pipes back in the day.

dgies9156

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2024, 10:10:56 AM »
The reality is dealing with the economic and social fallout from the collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge IS POLITICAL.

It's what we expect our government to do.

How Politicians do their job and the compassion they show will be a key sign of political effectiveness. The goals are to mourn the deceased, open the harbor and re-establish the transportation link. In Philadelphia, Minneapolis and even here in Florida in the 1980s, local, state and federal governments did a heck of a job reopening key transportation links. It's one of the few things anymore on which the GOP and the Democrats WILL agree.

One of the things our state government down here in Florida does really well is clean-up after hurricanes. It's the same formula, except it also must advise and guide the affected populous ahead of time. You may not like our governor (a lot of people don't) but he was really good in marshaling state resources and urging calm after Hurricane Ida hit.

Expect a lot of noise about equity in contract awards, what the new bridge will look like and how fast it will happen. But don't question the resolve of President Biden, or state and local officials over the desire to get that link open again. They'll get the job done!

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2024, 10:14:15 AM »
The reality is dealing with the economic and social fallout from the collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge IS POLITICAL.

It's what we expect our government to do.

How Politicians do their job and the compassion they show will be a key sign of political effectiveness. The goals are to mourn the deceased, open the harbor and re-establish the transportation link. In Philadelphia, Minneapolis and even here in Florida in the 1980s, local, state and federal governments did a heck of a job reopening key transportation links. It's one of the few things anymore on which the GOP and the Democrats WILL agree.

One of the things our state government down here in Florida does really well is clean-up after hurricanes. It's the same formula, except it also must advise and guide the affected populous ahead of time. You may not like our governor (a lot of people don't) but he was really good in marshaling state resources and urging calm after Hurricane Ida hit.

Expect a lot of noise about equity in contract awards, what the new bridge will look like and how fast it will happen. But don't question the resolve of President Biden, or state and local officials over the desire to get that link open again. They'll get the job done!

Good post, dg.  Not always, but often, responses to emergencies like this and hurricanes can make people work together and understand there is common ground
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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #63 on: March 28, 2024, 10:33:09 AM »
  Removing the bridge from the boat is going to take weeks, if not months. The logistics are a nightmare.  After that, clearing the channel of debris in order to reopen the port is another several weeks, if not months.  Maybe all done by Christmas?  Probably a year.  Oh, yeah, and finally then, rebuilding the bridge can commence.

I do not claim an special knowledge regarding these matters...I'm just passing along thoughts from an old friend. He is a retired USN Master Chief. That's way up at the top of the pecking order for USN enlisted. It doesn't make him an expert on cargo ships, but he does have quite a bit of knowledge that is not necessarily known to the average person. I was curious on his thoughts. I was very surprised that he believed that the port would be open within a week. He might be absolutely nuts -- I have no idea. He believes they'll have barges with cranes in there in pretty short order to move things out of the way to get the port operating. I hope he's right. I'm skeptical. Here's hoping that it's closer to a week than a year.

The bridge...well that's another story.
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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #64 on: March 28, 2024, 11:14:16 AM »
I do not claim an special knowledge regarding these matters...I'm just passing along thoughts from an old friend. He is a retired USN Master Chief. That's way up at the top of the pecking order for USN enlisted. It doesn't make him an expert on cargo ships, but he does have quite a bit of knowledge that is not necessarily known to the average person. I was curious on his thoughts. I was very surprised that he believed that the port would be open within a week. He might be absolutely nuts -- I have no idea. He believes they'll have barges with cranes in there in pretty short order to move things out of the way to get the port operating. I hope he's right. I'm skeptical. Here's hoping that it's closer to a week than a year.

The bridge...well that's another story.

My cousin's husband works in management at the ports in Norfolk, VA and he said something similar.  Back to fully operational and business as usually will take a couple months, but in terms of major logistical hurdles and barriers to ships going in and out, he said within a month comfortably, without even knowing all the nitty gritty details of the cleanup needed.

dgies9156

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #65 on: March 28, 2024, 01:51:08 PM »
The bridge...well that's another story.

I'm guessing at least seven to 10 years before the bridge is replaced and operational.

The first issue is design. Unless the state and federal government puts exactly the same bridge built exactly the same way back in Baltimore Harbor, it's going to take time to design. People are seeking more artistic and more dramatic designs today that showcase or complement a community. In the Bay Bridge between Oakland and San Francisco's case, it more than 20 years from the time of the 1989 earthquake, when they knew they had a problem, until the current Oakland side bridge was opened.

In the Sunshine Skyway case, it was a long detour for as long time before it opened. But besides being more beautiful, the Skyway is now all but collision proof and can withstand whatever Mother Nature can throw at it.

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2024, 01:56:56 PM »
Oh I bet its less than that. I would say 4-5. The Sunshine Skyway bridge was a little different because it still had open span.
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tower912

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2024, 01:57:47 PM »
I am rooting for everybody else's information to be correct as far as reopening the port.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

dgies9156

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #68 on: March 28, 2024, 02:56:26 PM »
Not always, but often, responses to emergencies like this and hurricanes can make people work together and understand there is common ground

We learn when we screw up.

Louisiana was a total cluster after Hurricane Katrina. There was more finger-pointing than after a 9.00 ERA reliever gives up a grand slam in the bottom of the ninth. Nobody got along with anybody and everybody was looking to blame someone else. As a consequence, nothing got done when it needed to. Tempers raged. People suffered and confidence in government dropped to unprecedented levels.

When Superstorm Sandy hit New Jersey hard, President Obama went to New Jersey and let people know he cared. Governor Christie, who did the right thing by joining the President, was nastily criticized by the GOP for cavorting with "Him." The GOP then was just plain rude and their criticism was counterproductive.

After Hurricane Betsy hit New Orleans in 1965, Lyndon Johnson quietly slipped into the Lower Ninth Ward and knocked on doors to reassure people. One woman in particular fainted when the President knocked on her door and said, "I'm from the government. How can I help you?" President Johnson's effort may have been a bit hokey, but by being there the President showed the government cared.

President Biden and Secretary Pete did the same thing this week and I'm sure Republicans will support the President.

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #69 on: March 28, 2024, 03:18:38 PM »
Looks like the insurance claim may be in the $3 Billion range...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/a-historic-and-clubby-group-in-london-could-face-billions-in-claims-from-the-baltimore-bridge-collapse/ar-BB1kElcV?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=5b98e51bc3c6493eb1f5626e4e1de4fa&ei=12

From the article:
"Analysts with Barclays estimate insurance claims from the bridge itself could total $1.2 billion, with as much as $700 million in claims for wrongful deaths, plus additional costs from business interruptions related to the port closure and bridge reconstruction, Bloomberg reported.

Economists told Business Insider the port closure itself will cost $15 million per day in lost economic activity, with other disruptions pushing the total into the tens of millions per day."


Also indicated that the risk will be spread amongst several large insurance firms in the Lloyd's of London exchange.
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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2024, 07:55:56 PM »
$700 million in wrongful death claims is outrageous. People die everyday in accidents and the settlements are not $100M. Also, I'd guess the estimate is roughly half of what the expected claims will be.

I will not blame the survivors and lawyers for asking for it. Judges and juries will be the focus of my ire.

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2024, 08:15:43 PM »
Knowing that the bridge collapse was caused by DEI and our gay transportation secretary, R’s in the House are starting to talk about not wanting to fund a re-build.

WhiteTrash

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2024, 08:24:13 PM »
Knowing that the bridge collapse was caused by DEI and our gay transportation secretary, R’s in the House are starting to talk about not wanting to fund a re-build.
DUMB.

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2024, 08:42:55 PM »
dgies,
some of your posts are well, just interesting to say the least.  The bridge collapse and the reconstruction process has nothing to do with politics. Nothing.  Economic and social damage?  I don't get people who are absolutely obsessed with politics that it engulfs every aspect of everything. 7 to 10 years is probably not going to happen, unless the environmental people get involved.  You know like a crab or fish is going to go extinct.  Engineers are already conducting research to determine if the exiting pillars utilized to hold up the old bridge can just be fortified and not completely replaced. If so, they will just add few pillars for a future structure.  As far as a new design, times have changed with the development of CADD computers, etc and the southeast side of Baltimore is not a visitors selling point.  The bridge is a commuter bridge in an industrial area and does not have to complement anybody in the vicinity.

Jwags,
 Baltimore will never, never be a safe place.  It has been like this for over 40 years and nothing will ever change until they get rid of the 13,500 vacant row homes.  That's right 13,500 vacant row homes.  The beautiful Inner Harbor area, once vibrant with shops, bars, etc. is done. Close to Camden Yards, M&T Bank stadium . Every business has now moved out, gonna get demolished and try again.  Top Golf opened a year ago close by, nine months later, owners looking to sell.  Nine months...Maybe bridge disaster will bring some together, maybe for a month, then it's over. OK, move on  from hijack thread.

As far as the channel for ships.  Ship cranes and barges from US Navy and other salvage companies enroute, some tonight.  The Army Corps of Engineers are in charge.  First they plan to lift underwater debris off the vehicles where victims are located and remove remains.  Then next is to clear shipping channel, which of course is in middle region of the bridge.  I believe it is an 800 foot section.  After clearing debris, they must do some dredging of the area to ensure all is clear. An estimate of the clearing is two to three months, then shipping should resume, but don't know at what capacity.

Have to get ship out of there. Getting the debris structure off the ship will start by dismantling sections piece by piece.  Lots of welders going to do serious cutting.  Then the issue of the containers.  There are over 3,000 containers on that ship (not 600) and someone stated one million gallons of fuel.  Have no knowledge as the whether they remove containers off the ship, remove the fuel, pilot it back to port or tugboat it back. 

Tower,
commutes are not 20 minutes to two hours.  Maybe an hour for some.  State Police, local police, Maryland Highway Admin are going to receive funding in order to have additional officers/tow trucks/state highway crews, stationed at various locations by the tunnels and west/north side of beltway in order to respond to any accidents/incidents that happen.  This will expedite any cleanups, etc following an accident or some other issue.  Great pastime work for off duty personnel. 

14,000 longshoremen, truckers, inspectors, etc. effected.  But the tractor trailer guys are enroute and a lot of companies, a lot, have already been brought in and willing to help. $$$$$$$$$  Loading to drive and unload to trains also.  Just a mess. 

All I got.


 

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