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* Next up: The long cold summer

Marquette
Marquette

Open Practice

Date/Time: Oct 11, 2024 ???
TV: NA
Schedule for 2023-24
27-10

Poll

How important is it to you that we make the second weekend?

Deadly important. 2nd weekend or fire Shaka - he can't get it done in the tourney.
11 (4.7%)
Missing the 2nd weekend would be a major disappointment, Shaka might not be the forever guy.
75 (32.3%)
It would suck but the breakthrough will come. Trust the process.
138 (59.5%)
It's a crap shoot. 2nd weekend no matta.
6 (2.6%)
Arby's
2 (0.9%)

Total Members Voted: 232

Author Topic: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?  (Read 13045 times)

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #100 on: February 20, 2024, 06:46:56 PM »
I never said Marquette wasn't known for hoops. I am saying that knowledge of Marquette due to hoops isn't necessarily due to deep runs in March. Marquette's brand as a basketball school is great despite only being to three S16s in the last 25+ years.
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PGsHeroes32

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #101 on: February 20, 2024, 06:57:06 PM »
I never said Marquette wasn't known for hoops. I am saying that knowledge of Marquette due to hoops isn't necessarily due to deep runs in March. Marquette's brand as a basketball school is great despite only being to three S16s in the last 25+ years.
Dont sell us short
Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #102 on: February 20, 2024, 06:58:45 PM »
Oops...four. Sorry.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

PointWarrior

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #103 on: February 20, 2024, 09:42:09 PM »
Why even play the season - Kenpom is so awesome it should just simulate the entire season? 


It really should be the Kenpom leader after the regular season.

wadesworld

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #104 on: February 20, 2024, 10:05:35 PM »
I’ll say this…when I’m on the east coast for work, if making small talk and college hoops comes up, people know Marquette. ‘Great Basketball’. ‘Man, you guys are always good’. ‘DWade could ball’ Blah blah, point is, we are known for hoops…and maybe the dental school 😉. Our hoops success contributes to us being a ‘name’. Having this notoriety does contribute to revenue. Revenue…keeps the lights on…especially-so at a time when a college degree is not as valued as it once was.

I’m guessing you respond with, “How can you think highly of MU basketball when we can’t beat RED?!”
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mug644

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #105 on: February 20, 2024, 10:11:00 PM »
I’ll say this…when I’m on the east coast for work, if making small talk and college hoops comes up, people know Marquette. ‘Great Basketball’. ‘Man, you guys are always good’. ‘DWade could ball’ Blah blah, point is, we are known for hoops…and maybe the dental school 😉. Our hoops success contributes to us being a ‘name’. Having this notoriety does contribute to revenue. Revenue…keeps the lights on…especially-so at a time when a college degree is not as valued as it once was.

I live on the east coast, and those comments are often followed by "Marquette is in Michigan, right?"

MU82

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #106 on: February 20, 2024, 10:31:16 PM »
It's more that I'm not going to be satisfied with the trappings along the way until we reach that destination. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy the process, or eventually appreciate the lesser accomplishments, but I'm not going to come out of a S16 finish saying "great, they got that monkey off the back, now I'm happy". I've seen numerous S16s. I'd rather have it than not, but there's really only one thing that will leave me thinking "yes, the season was an unquestioned success."

I get where you're coming from, brew.

I expect victory in every game. I thought we had a good chance to win at UConn, and I certainly think we can beat them at Fiserv. And when we get to the NCAAT, I will expect us to win each game as we advance. There will not be a single game - Purdue or Houston or UConn or whoever - that I will go in saying, "Nope, can't beat 'em."

So I have very high expectations, and I also had them last season once we proved we were an elite Big East team.

But should lightning strike and we lose in the NCAAT, and once I get past the initial disappointment, I'll be able to move on. As will you, I'm guessing.

As for your last line ... we are in 100% agreement on that!
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tower912

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #107 on: February 21, 2024, 05:22:12 AM »
I live on the east coast, and those comments are often followed by "Marquette is in Michigan, right?"
You get those comments in Michigan, too.
'Way up there?!'
« Last Edit: February 21, 2024, 08:25:13 AM by tower912 »
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Uncle Rico

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Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

lawdog77

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #109 on: February 21, 2024, 07:42:18 AM »
My goodness...we are in year three with a 46 year old coach.
aGREE. iT'S more of a plateau than a peak, meaning we could be in this rarified air consistently.


Uncle Rico

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #111 on: February 21, 2024, 08:45:02 AM »
It’s a joke geeko.

I figured someone with such incredible comedic sense would pick that up.

It isn’t for Point Warrior
Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #112 on: February 21, 2024, 11:39:39 AM »
Bingo. MU donors just paid $9 million to get rid of a mediocre coach. Now we are told by Scoopers it's all a crapshoot anyway.  Money wasted apparently.

My expectation is less crapping, more shooting.

Donors paid because of lack of tournament success AND mediocre regular season results.

If Shaka brings home a 2 seed every year,  it doesn't matter what he does in the tournament,  he'll have an ice cold seat.  Keep collecting those bites at the apple. Eventually,  you'll breakthrough
TAMU

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Pakuni

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #113 on: February 21, 2024, 12:18:33 PM »
Donors paid because of lack of tournament success AND mediocre regular season results.

If Shaka brings home a 2 seed every year,  it doesn't matter what he does in the tournament,  he'll have an ice cold seat.  Keep collecting those bites at the apple. Eventually,  you'll breakthrough

If second-seeded MU gets knocked out in the first or second round every year, Shaka's seat will not stay ice cold.
At some point, winning in the regular season no longer is a pleasant surprise. It will become the baseline. And then tourney success will need to follow or the fans will get antsy.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #114 on: February 21, 2024, 12:23:49 PM »
If second-seeded MU gets knocked out in the first or second round every year, Shaka's seat will not stay ice cold.
At some point, winning in the regular season no longer is a pleasant surprise. It will become the baseline. And then tourney success will need to follow or the fans will get antsy.

Name a coach whos been fired immediately after earning a 2 seed without any of the court issues.

All about bites at the apple

BUT, I concede that "ice cold seat" was the wrong terminology to use. Fans would definitely be frustrated and its possible that the next bad season they would take action. What I should have said is "no chance he gets fired immediately after earning a 2 seed".
« Last Edit: February 21, 2024, 12:30:20 PM by TAMU, Knower of Ball »
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #115 on: February 21, 2024, 12:35:09 PM »
Donors paid because of lack of tournament success AND mediocre regular season results.

If Shaka brings home a 2 seed every year,  it doesn't matter what he does in the tournament,  he'll have an ice cold seat.  Keep collecting those bites at the apple. Eventually,  you'll breakthrough

While I agree (and again, no one is seriously saying that most wouldn't love that performance), I bring up Tom Crean. There comes a point where bites at the apple aren't enough for a certain influential group or where a coach feels it's time to move on.

In Crean's case, going back to the well every year asking for more money came with higher accountabilities from Cottingham as Crean after Wade consistently underperformed in the NCAAs. Now, Shaka isn't Crean on many levels (thank the lord) but his post season performance became a rub, even at a patient school like MU.

As to bites at the apple, Shaka has underperformed those expectations  8 out of 10 trips, with the exception of his first two VCU trips if you believe this. Crean-like. Let's hope Shaka breaks through this season as that drought of 8 is exactly why he wound up at MU.

https://www.barttorvik.com/cgi-bin/ncaa.cgi?lookup=Shaka%20Smart&type=coach

Pakuni

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #116 on: February 21, 2024, 12:37:48 PM »
Name a coach whos been fired immediately after earning a 2 seed without any of the court issues.

Name a coach who's ever earned a two seed every year only to lose in the first weekend every year.
Your hypothetical really has no comp.

I just think you're overestimating fans, Marquette or otherwise, if you think they'd be content with an endless run of good regular seasons accompanied by first-weekend exits.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #117 on: February 21, 2024, 12:38:30 PM »
While I agree (and again, no one is seriously saying that most wouldn't love that performance), I bring up Tom Crean. There comes a point where bites at the apple aren't enough for a certain influential group or where a coach feels it's time to move on.

In Crean's case, going back to the well every year asking for more money came with higher accountabilities from Cottingham as Crean after Wade consistently underperformed in the NCAAs. Now, Shaka isn't Crean on many levels (thank the lord) but his post season performance became a rub, even at a patient school like MU.

As to bites at the apple, Shaka has underperformed those expectations  8 out of 10 trips, with the exception of his first two VCU trips if you believe this. Crean-like. Let's hope Shaka breaks through this season as that drought of 8 is exactly why he wound up at MU.

https://www.barttorvik.com/cgi-bin/ncaa.cgi?lookup=Shaka%20Smart&type=coach



I don't understand this. If in 2022, the chance of making the round of 32 was about 25%, how could he underperform seed expectations?
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #118 on: February 21, 2024, 12:39:47 PM »
Name a coach whos been fired immediately after earning a 2 seed without any of the court issues.

All about bites at the apple

BUT, I concede that "ice cold seat" was the wrong terminology to use. Fans would definitely be frustrated and its possible that the next bad season they would take action. What I should have said is "no chance he gets fired immediately after earning a 2 seed".

Close. Bill Guthridge. Two Final 4s in three years.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #119 on: February 21, 2024, 12:45:22 PM »
Guthridge wasn't fired.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #120 on: February 21, 2024, 12:49:30 PM »

I don't understand this. If in 2022, the chance of making the round of 32 was about 25%, how could he underperform seed expectations?

He doesn't document his methodology so here is my informed guess.  It was a 8/9 game (seed toss up, slight UNC predicted edge) and UNC beat MU by the biggest margin in the history of 8/9 seeds (versus the expected outcome being close). Thus, MU underperformed (the negative numbers). 

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #121 on: February 21, 2024, 12:51:27 PM »
How about we just enjoy the prospect for multiple low seeds rather than creating or defending a scenario where we judge it a failure

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #122 on: February 21, 2024, 12:52:29 PM »
Guthridge wasn't fired.

Fine. He was presented his retirement package at the door.

Hards Alumni

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #123 on: February 21, 2024, 12:53:06 PM »
How about we just enjoy the prospect for multiple low seeds rather than creating or defending a scenario where we judge it a failure

Sir, this is an Arby's.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: How important is the 2nd weekend to you?
« Reply #124 on: February 21, 2024, 12:57:49 PM »
He doesn't document his methodology so here is my informed guess.  It was a 8/9 game (seed toss up, slight UNC predicted edge) and UNC beat MU by the biggest margin in the history of 8/9 seeds (versus the expected outcome being close). Thus, MU underperformed (the negative numbers). 


OK. So the result of the game is included there and not just the absolute result. Thanks.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

 

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