Do We Have a Plan B?

[MuggsyB]

We all know the scouting report on MU.  Pack the paint and take away Tyko and Kam's left hand.  I felt we played almost a perfect 1st half but because we were 1-11 or whatever from distance it psychologically destroyed us in the 2H.  Is there something we can tweak at this juncture in our h-c offense?

[Boone]

LoL!

[MUfan12]

How many threads do we need on this? Contested midrange attempts aren't the answer either.

In the modern game you're gonna lose 9/10 times shooting under 20% from three.

[goldeneagle91114]

We all know the scouting report on MU.  Pack the paint and take away Tyko and Kam's left hand.  I felt we played almost a perfect 1st half but because we were 1-11 or whatever from distance it psychologically destroyed us in the 2H.  IA there something we can tweak at this juncture in our h-c offense?

NOPE, doesn't matter what play you want to draw up. When you shoot such poor percentages from three you'll never find anything inside the paint. i expect marquette to have nothing but open looks from beyond the arc in the next few games.

[PGsHeroes32]

Shaka has to lose the stubborness

It cant jsut be lay ups and 3s when we cant shoot

And it cant just be culture, cause clearly even this culture isnt flawless something is going on.

Make adjustments and start using the portal the moment you can.

[MuggsyB]

How many threads do we need on this? Contested midrange attempts aren't the answer either.

In the modern game you're gonna lose 9/10 times shooting under 20% from three.

As many as necessary until we figure it out.

[MUfan12]

As many as necessary until we figure it out.

We don't matter.

[Goose]

Muggsy

MU stunk tonight and have multiple times over the past month and that is fact. One question, every player has a dominant hand and how come fans only think lefties get pushed to their off hand? Kolek’s problem is not having a dominant hand that teams are scouting, there is something else going on.

I said before Xmas I thought there was a chemistry issue and I blamed younger guys playing for NIL money next year and was shot down by everyone. No idea if that is an issue, but there definitely looks to be an internal issue on the team.

[Mu8891]

Plan B?  No.

Shaka has hamstrung the team by not getting a single player from the portal

No bench.  No shooters.  And he’s not adjusted to what MSU … and UW etc have shown everyone else

[PGsHeroes32]

Muggsy

MU stunk tonight and have multiple times over the past month and that is fact. One question, every player has a dominant hand and how come fans only think lefties get pushed to their off hand? Kolek’s problem is not having a dominant hand that teams are scouting, there is something else going on.

I said before Xmas I thought there was a chemistry issue and I blamed younger guys playing for NIL money next year and was shot down by everyone. No idea if that is an issue, but there definitely looks to be an internal issue on the team.

Well, we are down to basically our starters so that should no longer be an issue.

[MuggsyB]

Muggsy

MU stunk tonight and have multiple times over the past month and that is fact. One question, every player has a dominant hand and how come fans only think lefties get pushed to their off hand? Kolek’s problem is not having a dominant hand that teams are scouting, there is something else going on.

I said before Xmas I thought there was a chemistry issue and I blamed younger guys playing for NIL money next year and was shot down by everyone. No idea if that is an issue, but there definitely looks to be an internal issue on the team.

Well what do you think is going on Goose?  I'm lost.  Ty. 

[BCHoopster]

How many threads do we need on this? Contested midrange attempts aren't the answer either.

In the modern game you're gonna lose 9/10 times shooting under 20% from three.

What the mid range game helps you is when you are shooting poorly, like tonight, move in to see the ball go thru the hole, players get confidence.  Team has no confidence, the only problem MU does not have one jump shooter, Kam has great moves but now good would he be if had a jumper!

[goldeneagle91114]

Muggsy

MU stunk tonight and have multiple times over the past month and that is fact. One question, every player has a dominant hand and how come fans only think lefties get pushed to their off hand? Kolek’s problem is not having a dominant hand that teams are scouting, there is something else going on.

I said before Xmas I thought there was a chemistry issue and I blamed younger guys playing for NIL money next year and was shot down by everyone. No idea if that is an issue, but there definitely looks to be an internal issue on the team.

This, I agree with Goose. I know I'll get called out as a conspiracy theorist, but this has '18 - '19 dumpster fire written all over it.

[Herman Cain]

We all know the scouting report on MU.  Pack the paint and take away Tyko and Kam's left hand.  I felt we played almost a perfect 1st half but because we were 1-11 or whatever from distance it psychologically destroyed us in the 2H.  Is there something we can tweak at this juncture in our h-c offense?

Muggsy:
There is no plan B. As you saw tonight our team cannot make lay ups or wide open 3 pointers . Unfortunately our offensive scheme is build on those two concepts .

[MuggsyB]

I mean 1-17 from distance for Tyko and Kam?  How can you explain that or is it a "slump"?  From my vantage point they honestly weren't close to being on target and the majority were wide open.  I'm lost on this one. 

[Mu8891]

It’s a team chemistry issue …

It’s evident on the Ct and I hear it’s the word around the AL

[CountryRoads]

Muggsy

MU stunk tonight and have multiple times over the past month and that is fact. One question, every player has a dominant hand and how come fans only think lefties get pushed to their off hand? Kolek’s problem is not having a dominant hand that teams are scouting, there is something else going on.

I said before Xmas I thought there was a chemistry issue and I blamed younger guys playing for NIL money next year and was shot down by everyone. No idea if that is an issue, but there definitely looks to be an internal issue on the team.

My theory is that Kam and Kolek are kind of checked out as far as college hoops goes. They got their bag and are just kind of enjoying being in the limelight and going through the motions as a result. Shaka made a comment after the Hall loss something to the effect that he wants players that want to win as much as Oso. I do think they’ll up their play near the end of the season. Hopefully it’s not too late.

[PGsHeroes32]

My theory is that Kam and Kolek are kind of checked out as far as college hoops goes. They got their bag and are just kind of enjoying being in the limelight and going through the motions as a result. Shaka made a comment after the Hall loss something to the effect that he wants players that want to win as much as Oso. I do think they’ll up their play near the end of the season. Hopefully it’s not too late.

I love Kam here at MU but where in gods name is he going to go???

If he actually is just going through the motions, it might not be here but hes gonna have to do it in college again next year too

[Goose]

Country

Checked out? No chance. That said, there might be something that needs to be worked out or we will see more nights like tonight. IMO, the funk is not 100% basketball related.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

start the Freshmen if Kolek isn't into it. 1/13 is not a starter's stats. Maybe he will find his mojo if he comes off the bench

[MUfan12]

IMO, the funk is not 100% basketball related.

Yeah there's gotta be something else behind the scenes.

[CountryRoads]

Country

Checked out? No chance. That said, there might be something that needs to be worked out or we will see more nights like tonight. IMO, the funk is not 100% basketball related.

Absolutely hope to be wrong and I can laugh at my post in the coming weeks. “Checked out” was too strong but I think they have lost their edge as of late. I think the issue is more with them than it is younger guys.

[Newsdreams]

Well what do you think is going on Goose?  I'm lost.  Ty.

He has no idea

[Goose]

Newsie

That is a fact.

But, I did know MU had a home game on MLK afternoon.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

MU stunk tonight and have multiple times over the past month and that is fact. One question, every player has a dominant hand and how come fans only think lefties get pushed to their off hand? Kolek’s problem is not having a dominant hand that teams are scouting, there is something else going on.

It has nothing to do with them being lefties. Some players are better with their off hand than others. The drop off from Kolek and Kam's dominant hand to their non-dominant hand is larger than most (partially because of how good they are going left).

[DoctorV]

Country

Checked out? No chance. That said, there might be something that needs to be worked out or we will see more nights like tonight. IMO, the funk is not 100% basketball related.

Maybe the funk is just a “crashing back down to Earth” one?

Those two guards have been called the best back court in America for 2 months….

They’ve been on several podcasts and done live interviews where they say the goal is a Natty and they consider themselves the best backcourt in America.

The season starts great, but then it sort of comes crashing down in a quick heap with both playing pretty poorly.
The pressure mounts and they both start to wonder if maybe in ain’t so?

I’m sure there’s more to it, but winning cures all.

They, not just the guards but as a team, aren’t connected and it shows. Those two, along with Oso, are the leaders and are veterans so it’s sad for them and this team.

However, they are veterans now and have chops, character will be revealed and I’m on the side of them finding a way.

[panda]

It’s the Oprah offense - you get a shot, you get a shot, you get a shot.

[Newsdreams]

Newsie

That is a fact.

But, I did know MU had a home game on MLK afternoon.

LOL you're still lost

[MuggsyB]

Country

Checked out? No chance. That said, there might be something that needs to be worked out or we will see more nights like tonight. IMO, the funk is not 100% basketball related.

Ya...I don't see that.  I certainly didn't in Maui. 

[Goose]

TAMU

I’m not a basketball expert, but there are very few players that I would say do not have a big drop off with their non dominant hand. My point, I have heard countless times on how Kolek and Kam have been scouted to force them right more than all of the players combined I have watched for 50+ years.

People notice lefties going to their dominant side more because it is out of the norm and easy to spot. I could not tell you the last time I heard a top level MU player outed for being dominant with their right hand.

I’m not going to debate the topic, but every player has a dominant hand and most have a big drop off with the other hand. I think it is silly and very lazy argument using that as a reason for bad performances. I would say more silly than pointed out Ben Gold tonight.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

I’m not a basketball expert, but there are very few players that I would say do not have a big drop off with their non dominant hand. My point, I have heard countless times on how Kolek and Kam have been scouted to force them right more than all of the players combined I have watched for 50+ years.

People notice lefties going to their dominant side more because it is out of the norm and easy to spot. I could not tell you the last time I heard a top level MU player outed for being dominant with their right hand.

I’m not going to debate the topic, but every player has a dominant hand and most have a big drop off with the other hand. I think it is silly and very lazy argument using that as a reason for bad performances. I would say more silly than pointed out Ben Gold tonight.

Yes, most players have a big drop off with their non dominant hand. Kolek and Kam's drop offs are bigger than most.

[Goose]

TAMU

I do not agree on that at all. I think there is a bias because leftie’s just look different on the court. I don’t even know who is a good dominant right hander on the team right now, but their drop off would look similar to me. Now, last year I would say Omax could go right or left and that is why he is making $2.4m and $200-300k.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

I do not agree on that at all. I think there is a bias because leftie’s just look different on the court. I don’t even know who is a good dominant right hander on the team right now, but their drop off would look similar to me. Now, last year I would say Omax could go right or left and that is why he is making $2.4m and $200-300k.

Goose, if you don't see the massive difference in effectiveness when Kolek/Kam are forced to their right vs their left, I don't know what to tell you. It's very clearly part of  the scout against us.

[MUfan12]

Goose, if you don't see the massive difference in effectiveness when Kolek/Kam are forced to their right vs their left, I don't know what to tell you. It's very clearly part of  the scout against us.

Agreed. Kam still got to his left in the first half but it was much tougher after the break.

What's more concerning to me is that he won't even drive baseline if he has to dribble with his right.

[GoldenDieners32]

Yeah there's gotta be something else behind the scenes.

anyone check his posts??

[Goose]

TAMU

My point was simple, taking away a guy’s dominant hand is not cutting edge scouting. Of course teams are trying to make going left difficult for them, but they were last year as well. I just don’t think that is as much of the issue as others on here believe.

Also, I do believe that people focus on a leftie differently because that is not the usual dominant side. If a guy is a right handed and only goes right it less noticeable and people are less likely to talk about it.

[willie warrior]

We have watched a team and coach disintegrate and melt down I months time.
There is so much wrong
PG has gone through motions
The team is shooting terribly, particularly Kolek
No elite 3 point shooters. Other elite teams have one or more
No front court physicality
Gold and Joplin are slow footed and can't defend. Shame on whoever on this board said Gold has NBA potential. There is nobody playing with that potential.
Hanging on past accolades doesn't cut it in BEast
Smart getting his ass way outcoached
It is time to hit the Panic Button and make big changes in way team is being run.

[tower912]

Clearly, the solution is to stop shooting  open 3s and to quit driving to the basket.

[rocket surgeon]

"something" happened-

    big drop off of team unity since providence blow out.  granted, we blew out g-town as anyone should, but something must have been revealed after the creighton win that pissed off the "team"  why the "" "" around team?  well, figure it out...who really composes this team?  subsequently, during our sub-par to poor showings during seton hall and now butler, it had to have raised it's ugly head. 

just trying to analyze where the wheels started to come off-me thinks somewhere during st thomas to providence

maybe the NIL checks came out and someone was shorted?

[Viper]

We all know the scouting report on MU.  Pack the paint and take away Tyko and Kam's left hand.  I felt we played almost a perfect 1st half but because we were 1-11 or whatever from distance it psychologically destroyed us in the 2H.  Is there something we can tweak at this juncture in our h-c offense?

5-31 from 3. Imagine that?!!!! 16 freakin %, hey. Hit shots, that’s the tweaking.

[tower912]

In his post game presser, Shaka talked about Kam making 9 3's in the pre game live game practice.    Couldn't miss.     Talked about how TKo had 8 assists and probably could have had a ton more because he made the right play and the shot was missed.   Plan B is to get back to making shots.   

[MuggsyB]

It's really hard to go 3-27 from three.  Especially when at least half of them were wide open and catch and shoots.  After rewatching the first half I saw a team that got essentially every shot they wanted vs a team kicking the ball away and not being able to defend the paint or the 3pt line.

If people really believe Kam and Tyko are 1-17 bad and are incapable of knocking down threes I would say that's garbage.  At the same time we have mentally checked out on several occasions when we have gone brick city.  We have compounded the problem with poor decision making, defensive breakdowns, and a total lack of patience and intelligence. 

What I mean by that is it went from a combined inside/outside attack to launching indiscriminately because at some point they'll go in mindset.  We were psychologically mind fked when we only had a 7 point lead at the half.  In the midst of shooting like were were in a wind tunnel how many times did we play through Oso?  How many times in transition did we take an asinine 1 on 2, 1 on 3, or forced shot when nothing was there?  We had 2 turns in the 1H what did we wind up with 10?

It's not a secret that if TyKo and Kam do find their games we're not beating anyone.  It's on them and Shaka to figure it out and Pronto.  I'm not gonna speculate what might be going on off the court but on the court they have been a dumpster fire of biblical proportions.  Period.  Monday is an opportunity to erase this horror and get back on track. 

[Viper]

It's really hard to go 3-27 from three.  Especially when at least half of them were wide open and catch and shoots.  After rewatching the first half I saw a team that got essentially every shot they wanted vs a team kicking the ball away and not being able to defend the paint or the 3pt line.

If people really believe Kam and Tyko are 1-17 bad and are incapable of knocking down threes I would say that's garbage.  At the same time we have mentally checked out on several occasions when we have gone brick city.  We have compounded the problem with poor decision making, defensive breakdowns, and a total lack of patience and intelligence. 

What I mean by that is it went from a combined inside/outside attack to launching indiscriminately because at some point they'll go in mindset.  We were psychologically mind fked when we only had a 7 point lead at the half.  In the midst of shooting like were were in a wind tunnel how many times did we play through Oso?  How many times in transition did we take an asinine 1 on 2, 1 on 3, or forced shot when nothing was there?  We had 2 turns in the 1H what did we wind up with 10?

It's not a secret that if TyKo and Kam do find their games we're not beating anyone.  It's on them and Shaka to figure it out and Pronto.  I'm not gonna speculate what might be going on off the court but on the court they have been a dumpster fire of biblical proportions.  Period.  Monday is an opportunity to erase this horror and get back on track.

with the team shooting 5-31 from 3, and w/o an inside presence other than Oso, it’s a live/die by the outside shot offense. Shaka can’t control the cold shooting, but I would have been pressing Butler more. Create turnovers, create offense. Butler doesn’t impress me as a team that will beat you with their speed. After blowing Texas back to Austin, I never saw any of this coming.

[tower912]

Press with a 6 man rotation?

[NCMUFan]

Spectrum problems from the storm on Tuesday.  Unable to get the game.
Got caught up on sleep.
I have complete confidence you guys will figure it out for Shaka and the team.

[tower912]

Going forward, Tre and Zaide are going to play.  It would be nice to see them play with the same agressiveness and confidence that Stevie and Kam, and then Chase and Sean, showed as freshmen.   Opportunities are there.   
    The veterans need to see shots go in.   As soon as that happens, the fog will lift and the dominoes will fall.  No one can make that happen.  But shooting slumps don't end by not taking open looks.

[MUfan12]

Press with a 6 man rotation?

Also hard to set a press when you miss everything.

[tower912]

Indeed.

[MuggsyB]

with the team shooting 5-31 from 3, and w/o an inside presence other than Oso, it’s a live/die by the outside shot offense. Shaka can’t control the cold shooting, but I would have been pressing Butler more. Create turnovers, create offense. Butler doesn’t impress me as a team that will beat you with their speed. After blowing Texas back to Austin, I never saw any of this coming.

We can't press with 2 rotational players out.  We were 3-27 with the game in range, I don't even count the 2 we hit late.  I also did not foresee this at all.  As Shaka stated adversity makes you stronger but we have a hell of a lot of work to do. 

[ATL MU Warrior]

As Tower said, the vets need to see the ball go in a few times.  Hope it happens soon.  What is the alternative?  Pass the ball around aimlessly for 20-25 seconds until somebody is forced to wildly drive to the hoop or shoot it?  That is disaster. 

Our offense and this team is now a known quantity.  Coaches have adjusted and are taking away some of the things we were doing last year that were so beautiful to watch and are making it ugly as sin.  There is no play that can be designed or a different look that we can give that will matter unless we can start shooting better.

The guys are in their heads right now and they are pressing instead of just playing. They haven’t quit. They are still playing hard, but confidence is missing and it’s clearly impacting our entire offensive scheme and of course our shooting.

How does Shaka and staff fix it?  Don’t know. 

[wisblue]

As Tower said, the vets need to see the ball go in a few times.  Hope it happens soon.  What is the alternative?  Pass the ball around aimlessly for 20-25 seconds until somebody is forced to wildly drive to the hoop or shoot it?  That is disaster. 

Our offense and this team is now a known quantity.  Coaches have adjusted and are taking away some of the things we were doing last year that were so beautiful to watch and are making it ugly as sin.  There is no play that can be designed or a different look that we can give that will matter unless we can start shooting better.

The guys are in their heads right now and they are pressing instead of just playing. They haven’t quit. They are still playing hard, but confidence is missing and it’s clearly impacting our entire offensive scheme and of course our shooting.

How does Shaka and staff fix it?  Don’t know.

I pretty much agree with all of this.

A significant change in approach and philosophy at this stage of the season isn’t going to help. Neither is expecting players to do things they aren’t physically capable of doing.

If the problem is purely physical I don’t see any alternative but to continue to do what has been successful before and pray that players start to make shots that they have shown before they are capable of making. Maybe the starters will have to play more minutes than ideal, but Norman and Lowery are going to have to get some minutes and hopefully they can step up and earn more time.

If there is also a problem with team chemistry, there is no hope because this will spiral completely out of control and result in a season that falls below what anyone would have thought was a floor coming into the season.

[MuggsyB]

As Tower said, the vets need to see the ball go in a few times.  Hope it happens soon.  What is the alternative?  Pass the ball around aimlessly for 20-25 seconds until somebody is forced to wildly drive to the hoop or shoot it?  That is disaster. 

Our offense and this team is now a known quantity.  Coaches have adjusted and are taking away some of the things we were doing last year that were so beautiful to watch and are making it ugly as sin.  There is no play that can be designed or a different look that we can give that will matter unless we can start shooting better.

The guys are in their heads right now and they are pressing instead of just playing. They haven’t quit. They are still playing hard, but confidence is missing and it’s clearly impacting our entire offensive scheme and of course our shooting.

How does Shaka and staff fix it?  Don’t know.

I don't disagree with you and clearly this is a psychological issue.  But with 2 key guys out our margin for error becomes smaller.  I think Shaka said the right things at the presser and Lowery and Norman are capable of stepping up.

We're not going to stop shooting threes, everybody should understand that.  And holding it 25 secs is silly as well.  But I do think we have had a propensity to press or make poor decisions once we punch the paint off the dribble.  Our passing is sporadically good, not fluid.  Tyko in particular has not only gone 2-16 or whatever the last two games, he's been forcing when nothing is there and his shot has been sped up imo.  Once he beats his man up top and the kick isn't there, he has plenty of space to work with to score the rock.  The bigs are sagging 4 feet from the rim.  Whatever happened to the change of pace bounce or slowing down and draining the floater or 6 footer?  It's wide fking open, that's a high percentage look.   The same is true with Kam, that shot shouldn't not be axed from our arsenal.  Take a few, make the defense react.  I mean seriously these guys have enough time to plant and take a set shot from 10 feet. 

The bottom line is yes, it comes down to making WIDE OPEN shots.  Especially from our top two perimeter guys.  Why they are mentally not there I have no earthly idea but they must step-up and play solid hoops for us to have a chance. 

[MUfan12]

I love how no coaches watched film on MU at all last year, and had an epiphany after the Madison game.

[tower912]

This Shaka's and the veterans' fifth time through the league.  (Two laps each season for the pedantically inclined or small minded)  If the other coaches haven't figured out how to disrupt them they should be fired.   

Making shots cures all ills.

[21Jumpstreet]

TAMU

My point was simple, taking away a guy’s dominant hand is not cutting edge scouting. Of course teams are trying to make going left difficult for them, but they were last year as well. I just don’t think that is as much of the issue as others on here believe.

Also, I do believe that people focus on a leftie differently because that is not the usual dominant side. If a guy is a right handed and only goes right it less noticeable and people are less likely to talk about it.

I agree, Goose, I really don’t think it’s simple, grade school, force the guy left/right situation. Tyler is struggling, maybe it’s off the court, maybe not. What I see is maybe he has decided he’s going to beat a guy left as a big FU, and it ain’t workin’. Then, he gets frustrated, gets muscled, misses. Then, he loses his guy on defense or doesn’t help properly, lazy close outs. Then, he jacks some questionable shots and makes some questionable passes. Then, the wheels are off. I didn’t see any of this last year, so I know deep down it’s in Tyler to get over it. Mental struggles are real, frustration is real.

My son is the leader for his high school retreat coming up. It is a very spiritual, deep, vulnerable retreat. He is tasked with giving a thirty minute talk on leadership. I see a lot of Tyler in my son, the good and the bad. The retreat is very private and personal, but my son did give me a little snippet of how his talk is going to end…leaders sometimes fall, leaders need support, leaders need others to help them back up. Leadership can be lonely, it can be very difficult, sometimes when the leader wants to just scream “&$!%*” they can’t. Maybe they should and trust their circle to rise them back up. Everyone is a leader in their own right, sometimes it’s the person you don’t expect to step forward who does in a way that makes all the difference.

Edit: And make shots, but I think the missed shots are a direct result of the mental struggles.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I love how no coaches watched film on MU at all last year, and had an epiphany after the Madison game.

Last year we were hitting threes. We also had a forward who could effectively attack the basket and shoot the three (OMax). This year we aren't hitting thees and Joplin can't effectively attack. Changes the scout and makes it easier to defend

[jesmu84]

Y'all have to let go the idea of this team shooting non-3 jump shots.

It ain't happening

[Uncle Rico]

Great thread

[tower912]

Ah, yes.   The shooting slump era. 

[tower912]

    The veterans need to see shots go in.   As soon as that happens, the fog will lift and the dominoes will fall.  No one can make that happen.  But shooting slumps don't end by not taking open looks.

Knower of ball. 

[mileskishnish72]

Don't dislocate your shoulder, Tower.

[tower912]

 

[MuggsyB]

Knower of ball.

Good take Tower. 

[Its DJOver]

OP don’t know ball.

[MuMark]

Ah yes the old “ we played poorly for a few games there must be chemistry issues” thread…….lol

[Milkshakes]

Holy crap.  I started reading this thread without looking at the dates.  Yikes. 

[tower912]

Time capsules with receipts are fun.