NFL playoffs.

[WhiteTrash]

I seriously can't believe Bears fans think they'd be in the same spot they are now had they traded Fields and took Stroud 1 overall. Bryce Young? Sure. Stroud? Difference maker.

They don't think that. People are trolling you.

[Lennys Tap]

They don't think that. People are trolling you.

If you let the Bears pick which QB they wanted AFTER watching them for a season, sure. Stroud's a stud given the benefit of hindsight, but how many "experts" or GMs had him as #1. Similarly, if the Bears get to pick WHICH QB (Williams, Maye, Daniels, Penix, etc.) they want after watching them play actual NFL games? Sure, a no brainer. That's not the way it works.

[The Sultan]

If you let the Bears pick which QB they wanted AFTER watching them for a season, sure. Stroud's a stud given the benefit of hindsight, but how many "experts" or GMs had him as #1. Similarly, if the Bears get to pick WHICH QB (Williams, Maye, Daniels, Penix, etc.) they want after watching them play actual NFL games? Sure, a no brainer. That's not the way it works.

Uh...the original question asked was one of hindsight. That was the point.

"How much better would the Bears have been if they didn't trade out of #1, and instead drafted Stroud?"

And wades is right. Stroud would have made the Bears significantly better. People are talking like D.J. Moore is some stud receiver and it's kinda funny.

[Uncle Rico]

Uh...the original question asked was one of hindsight. That was the point.

"How much better would the Bears have been if they didn't trade out of #1, and instead drafted Stroud?"

And wades is right. Stroud would have made the Bears significantly better. People are talking like D.J. Moore is some stud receiver and it's kinda funny.

The biggest difference is this, Stroud is good.  Fields is bad.

[MU82]

NFL was very careful to re-schedule Steelers-Bills in a way that let them avoid going head-to-head with a Villanova-Marquette matchup that has the entire nation drooling with anticipation!

[GB Warrior]

If you need an example of why the Bears will play the lottery in the draft, look at Miami. They built an entire offense around accentuating Tua's strengths (accuracy, decisiveness) and minimizing his weaknesses (playing outside of structure) and are now faced with the prospect of paying him like a top 3 QB.

Fields obviously much different (inaccurate, indecisive,  but great playing outside of structure) but the thought is the same. If your ceiling is short of "Can win us a Super Bowl" is this where you hitch your wagon?

For fun, who'd you rather extend: Tua or Love?

[The Sultan]

The biggest difference is this, Stroud is good.  Fields is bad.

Yes.

But we have people saying "but we wouldn't have D.J. Moore or Darnell Wright."  Moore is a nice receiver but is by and large completely replaceable.  Wright seems good too.  But neither of these guys is nearly as important as a decent quarterback. And you for sure take the more proven Stroud rather than the potential of Williams or Maye even if you lose these two in the process.

[MU82]

Moore is a nice receiver but is by and large completely replaceable.

Agree, with a caveat: The team replacing him must not be filled with incompetent dopes (unlike the team that failed to replace him).

[jesmu84]

Yes.

But we have people saying "but we wouldn't have D.J. Moore or Darnell Wright."  Moore is a nice receiver but is by and large completely replaceable.  Wright seems good too.  But neither of these guys is nearly as important as a decent quarterback. And you for sure take the more proven Stroud rather than the potential of Williams or Maye even if you lose these two in the process.

I said those things. And it's accurate. We wouldn't have those 2.

If the bears didn't have a competent right tackle or a WR capable of some separation + a coaching staff that could not scheme open WR or scheme to protect a QB/give them time behind a bad OL = not great QB play regardless of the QB

[The Sultan]

Yeah I just don't agree with that.

[Uncle Rico]

I said those things. And it's accurate. We wouldn't have those 2.

If the bears didn't have a competent right tackle or a WR capable of some separation + a coaching staff that could not scheme open WR or scheme to protect a QB/give them time behind a bad OL = not great QB play regardless of the QB

Doesn't matter if the QB stinks.  Fields isn't it.  Maybe there's a point the QB part matches the physical talent but he isn't close. 

The Packers defense has been exposed by bad QBs this year.  Fields couldn't expose them.  Make all the excuses you want about the staff and people around him, but at some point, it's the QB

[GB Warrior]

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good, but the Bears are in a better position having not drafted Stroud SO LONG AS they get this pick right.

I disagree with MU82 on DJ Moore - he has elite YAC skills that you don't just find - he has routinely excelled with subpar QB play and being the only viable receiver. I'm sure the Bears would be in position to draft Odunze or another top WR even with Stroud, but they know they have it now. I don't think they'd be in position to draft MHJ.

It's all with the benefit of hindsight, but the Bears have better control of their future having not drafted Stroud than they otherwise would have.

[WhiteTrash]

Doesn't matter if the QB stinks.  Fields isn't it.  Maybe there's a point the QB part matches the physical talent but he isn't close. 

The Packers defense has been exposed by bad QBs this year.  Fields couldn't expose them.  Make all the excuses you want about the staff and people around him, but at some point, it's the QB

Agreed. I think Bears fans have been so beaten down and accustom to poor QB play, Field's performance, especially the special plays he makes, makes them think he is good or very good. For reference the Broncos benched Wilson and his 26 TDs, 8 INTs, 3,070 YDs, 98 RTG; Fields had 16 TDs, 9 INTs, 2,562 YDs, 86 RTG. Rushing: Wilson 3 TDs, Fields 4 TDs.

[jesmu84]

Doesn't matter if the QB stinks.  Fields isn't it.  Maybe there's a point the QB part matches the physical talent but he isn't close. 

The Packers defense has been exposed by bad QBs this year.  Fields couldn't expose them.  Make all the excuses you want about the staff and people around him, but at some point, it's the QB

Fields is NOT the QB. I think I've said that before.

What I'm saying now is that an incompetent offensive staff, incapable of designing a good scheme/strategy + bad WR corps + bad OL = a bad offense even with Stroud at QB.

Is Herbert a good QB? How'd San Diego's offense do this year? Is Purdy a good QB? Goff? Minshew?

QB talent matters. Probably more than any other factor. But if every other factor around that QB is bad, the offense will be bad. If every other factor around that QB is good, the offense will be good.

[Dish]

If you need an example of why the Bears will play the lottery in the draft, look at Miami. They built an entire offense around accentuating Tua's strengths (accuracy, decisiveness) and minimizing his weaknesses (playing outside of structure) and are now faced with the prospect of paying him like a top 3 QB.

Fields obviously much different (inaccurate, indecisive,  but great playing outside of structure) but the thought is the same. If your ceiling is short of "Can win us a Super Bowl" is this where you hitch your wagon?

For fun, who'd you rather extend: Tua or Love?

I think this is the best take here I've seen, kudos.

To your Tua/Love scenario, I'd rather pay Love. I'd pick up Tua's 5th year option, and then franchise him (if he's healthy and progressing). If they weren't $40 million over the cap (yikes), I would have suggested Cousins as a great fit for Miami, but that's not happening.

[Uncle Rico]

Fields is NOT the QB. I think I've said that before.

What I'm saying now is that an incompetent offensive staff, incapable of designing a good scheme/strategy + bad WR corps + bad OL = a bad offense even with Stroud at QB.

Is Herbert a good QB? How'd San Diego's offense do this year? Is Purdy a good QB? Goff? Minshew?

QB talent matters. Probably more than any other factor. But if every other factor around that QB is bad, the offense will be bad. If every other factor around that QB is good, the offense will be good.

That's all fair.

[Uncle Rico]

I think this is the best take here I've seen, kudos.

To your Tua/Love scenario, I'd rather pay Love. I'd pick up Tua's 5th year option, and then franchise him (if he's healthy and progressing). If they weren't $40 million over the cap (yikes), I would have suggested Cousins as a great fit for Miami, but that's not happening.

Can't ignore the head injury factor with Tua either, though he did an incredible job learning how to protect himself this year.

I'd say they'd be a surprise prime candidate to maneuver up on draft day but they don't have much ammo draft pick wise.

[Dish]

Can't ignore the head injury factor with Tua either, though he did an incredible job learning how to protect himself this year.

I'd say they'd be a surprise prime candidate to maneuver up on draft day but they don't have much ammo draft pick wise.

I thought about that too, and you're right about lack of capital to trade. Maye would be a great fit for Miami.

[Pakuni]

[Uncle Rico]

Proud UW-Madison grad

[Lennys Tap]

Uh...the original question asked was one of hindsight. That was the point.

"How much better would the Bears have been if they didn't trade out of #1, and instead drafted Stroud?"

And wades is right. Stroud would have made the Bears significantly better. People are talking like D.J. Moore is some stud receiver and it's kinda funny.

1.Hindsight is meaningless
2.Even with hindsight, very few people had Stroud as the #1 QB.

Everyone who passed on Mahomes, Brady, etc., etc., etc., would have been much better if they didn't. So what?

[The Sultan]

1.Hindsight is meaningless
2.Even with hindsight, very few people had Stroud as the #1 QB.

Everyone who passed on Mahomes, Brady, etc., etc., etc., would have been much better if they didn't. So what?

You're not required to participate in the discussion.

[MUBurrow]

I think this is the best take here I've seen, kudos.

To your Tua/Love scenario, I'd rather pay Love. I'd pick up Tua's 5th year option, and then franchise him (if he's healthy and progressing). If they weren't $40 million over the cap (yikes), I would have suggested Cousins as a great fit for Miami, but that's not happening.

Agree with all this.  As a Dolphins fan, the last two weeks were like having a fart you don't trust without access to a bathroom. 

The Tua-McDaniels combo has been fun(ish) and with their roster construction, they're probably pot committed to it for this competitive window.  But we've seen its peak, and that peak is not sustainable.  So long as Tyreek is Tyreek, the offense will start hot every year with McDaniels latest prensap motion innovations, then slowly fade as defenses adjust and Tua's limitations prevent the Dolphins from counterpunching.  Even when his stats are great, Tua's inability to go off script (due to lack of pure athleticism and that if he takes another hit to the noggin his career is over) and zip (evertything hangs and he just gets away with it due to Tyreek and Waddle being great) lower the teams' ceiling.  You can get away with all that and remain competitive if you put a great team around him, but that's impossible once you pay him. 

Note: being a fan of the Dolphins heavily informs why I believe the Bears have to take a QB at 1:1.  As GB mentions, the Fields situation is very similar to Tua even if they are very different players.

[wadesworld]

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good, but the Bears are in a better position having not drafted Stroud SO LONG AS they get this pick right.

I disagree with MU82 on DJ Moore - he has elite YAC skills that you don't just find - he has routinely excelled with subpar QB play and being the only viable receiver. I'm sure the Bears would be in position to draft Odunze or another top WR even with Stroud, but they know they have it now. I don't think they'd be in position to draft MHJ.

It's all with the benefit of hindsight, but the Bears have better control of their future having not drafted Stroud than they otherwise would have.

This is ignoring what they could've got back for Fields last year. He still had quite a bit of value then.

[GB Warrior]

This is ignoring what they could've got back for Fields last year. He still had quite a bit of value then.

No he didn't.

He had been - through last year - statistically one of the worst QBs in NFL history. His value was (and is) predicated on the hubris of another organization thinking (observing) that the Bears organization is rim by idiots and could give him appropriate coaching.