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Kam Jones

34 points, 2 rebounds,
1 assist, 2 steals,
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Ighodaro6
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Joplin1

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* Next up: Providence

Marquette
88
Marquette vs

Providence

Date/Time: Feb 28, 2024, 6:00 pm
TV: FS1
Schedule for 2023-24
Xavier
64

Author Topic: 2 days later view  (Read 2369 times)

MU82

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2 days later view
« on: December 04, 2023, 11:46:38 AM »
Like many others here, "disappointed" doesn't adequately cover how I felt watching the game. A friend texted me to say he literally threw his beer glass at his TV - "Good thing I have f%ckin sh!tty aim!"

So I tend to avoid Hangin' at the Al after losses like that. (Thankfully, they've been few and far between the last year.)

With some time having past, here's where I am now about our team ...

++ We'll have trouble beating any good team, especially on the road, when Kolek and Oso are playing well below their best level. They are our studs. We need them to play like studs.

++ It wasn't Shaka's best game. No adjustments on leaving Klesmit wide open the entire first half, the rotations were just off all game, Joplin probably got too much PT, etc. Madison just seemed more ready for the game. Being 0-3 against Madison sucks - no way to sugarcoat it. Still loving Shaka, though; every coach has the occasional dud.

++ Joplin was bad. But until this game, he had played about as I expected him to play. He is what he is. He can get red hot and that can help us tremendously (as against UCLA), he's a floor-spacer, he sometimes defends and rebounds OK, he sometimes disappears. He's a role player.

++ In addition to us not being a good rebounding team, two other problems contributed to the discrepancy on the boards: Our defenders often failed to keep their men in front of them, forcing Oso or others to help, which left the weakside open for Madison rebounders; and our guys sometimes failed to hold onto rebounds that were right in their hands. On a couple of the latter occasions, we lost the ball out of bounds when two MU players contested each other. Ugh.

++ Madison players routinely beat our guys to loose basketballs and to favored spots on the floor. I wouldn't be surprised if this pissed off Shaka more than anything else that happened, as it speaks to effort and hoops IQ.

++ For a team that has built its offense around 3s and layups/dunks, we've had too many guys who can't hit wide-open 3s this season. We often only have two 3-point threats on the floor, and only one if Jop is having one of his off games. Unless Ross, who has been a bit disappointing this season, or someone else starts shooting better, this could be the liability that kills us in the biggest games.

++ Madison played well. Some of that was us not adequately challenging them on what they do best ... but as much as it hurts, I have to give credit where it's due.

++ Our loss to Madison wasn't even close to the most eye-popping college basketball results of the day. Calipari got beat at home by UNC-Wilmington (!!!), Duke lost to Georgia Tech and Nova lost to yet another Philly team. It doesn't make our loss "good" or any easier to take, it's just part of "shyte happens."

++ I'm still very optimistic about Marquette's prospects this season, still expect big things. It will be telling to see how the guys respond Wednesday against Texas, and then later in the month at Provi and vs Creighton. Tough games, but all that a top-10, legit natty contender should win. We should be 11-2 - and absolutely no worse than 10-3 - going into 2024.

We Are Marquette!
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

TheREALwrk

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2023, 01:18:44 PM »


++ For a team that has built its offense around 3s and layups/dunks, we've had too many guys who can't hit wide-open 3s this season. We often only have two 3-point threats on the floor, and only one if Jop is having one of his off games. Unless Ross, who has been a bit disappointing this season, or someone else starts shooting better, this could be the liability that kills us in the biggest games.



Kam at 42.2% and Kolek at 46.2% is fantastic. Joplin at 33.3% ain't gonna cut it - and Shaka needs to shut him down when it's obvious he's cold. If Ben Gold can up at 32%, I think it would make a big difference. Other than that, we've been pretty atrocious from 3-land despite what seems like a mega-green-light from the coaching staff.

MU82

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2023, 01:29:31 PM »
Kam at 42.2% and Kolek at 46.2% is fantastic. Joplin at 33.3% ain't gonna cut it - and Shaka needs to shut him down when it's obvious he's cold. If Ben Gold can up at 32%, I think it would make a big difference. Other than that, we've been pretty atrocious from 3-land despite what seems like a mega-green-light from the coaching staff.

Gold made two 3s Saturday but unfortunately Shaka couldn't afford to keep him on the floor due to significant defensive shortcomings. That's a concern, too. In general, we haven't gotten enough from him or his fellow sophomore, Ross.

We will win a lot of games despite not hitting enough 3s because we do so many other things well/ But you're right ... there will be games we need 3s to win, especially against the better teams on our schedule. We don't beat UCLA if Joplin doesn't get hot and if Sean doesn't make the one biggie; the 3s we got from Gold were huge against Kansas. We need those more consistently.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

tower912

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2023, 01:31:50 PM »
Put Gold on the post player.    Let Oso guard the stretch 4.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MU82

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2023, 02:41:33 PM »
Put Gold on the post player.    Let Oso guard the stretch 4.

Maybe. Except one thing that’s been proven is we can’t afford Oso getting into even a little foul trouble.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

MU82

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2023, 02:49:00 PM »
In another thread (can’t remember which), there was a discussion of whether we MU fans are the most overreactionary bunch out there.

Meh. We’re fans.

When UConn followed their fantastic start last season with a 2-6 stretch, UConn fans were going berserk. There were many discussions about whether Hurley really was the right man for the job. Some version of  “What has he ever won?” was a favorite lament.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

tower912

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2023, 03:00:16 PM »
Crean can't coach
Buzz can't coach
Wojo can't coach
Shaka can't coach

Need to start Acker over DJ because of free throws.
Feed Burke the ball more. (OK, one guy)
Lazar/Butler/Crowder/Blue are wasted scholarships.
Need to play Mayo/Dawson/Sandy/not Sandy/Deonte/every freshman ever......blahbityblahblahblahblahblah.   

All the talk is just this year's version of scoop.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MU82

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2023, 03:18:05 PM »
Crean can't coach
Buzz can't coach
Wojo can't coach
Shaka can't coach

Need to start Acker over DJ because of free throws.
Feed Burke the ball more. (OK, one guy)
Lazar/Butler/Crowder/Blue are wasted scholarships.
Need to play Mayo/Dawson/Sandy/not Sandy/Deonte/every freshman ever......blahbityblahblahblahblahblah.   

All the talk is just this year's version of scoop.

And some version of that takes place on every one of these sites.

For as much as they win, Kansas fans were probably coming up with similar doozies after we beat them 2 weeks ago.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

tower912

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2023, 03:19:14 PM »
Indeed.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2023, 05:03:48 PM »
Crean can't coach
Buzz can't coach
Wojo can't coach
Shaka can't coach

All the talk is just this year's version of scoop.

To be fair, two of those are true

goldeneagle91114

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2023, 05:21:56 PM »
Kam at 42.2% and Kolek at 46.2% is fantastic. Joplin at 33.3% ain't gonna cut it - and Shaka needs to shut him down when it's obvious he's cold. If Ben Gold can up at 32%, I think it would make a big difference. Other than that, we've been pretty atrocious from 3-land despite what seems like a mega-green-light from the coaching staff.

Regarding 3 point shooting only: Joplin is 33.3% so far this year. Omax, who Jop has replaced, was 33.9% last year... not a huge drop off.

I think the issue thus far is we have too many guys (i.e., Stevie, Ross, Sean, and gold) taking 3 points shots. I'd prefer we run some half court sets that start and end with the ball in Kam and/or Koleks hands. AND only have one of the other four named above take shots late in the clock if we were unable to get what we wanted.

Teams are very happy to have a marquette posession end with Stevie or Sean shooting a 3. We need to stop thinking that's a quality shot...no matter how open they are.

tower912

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2023, 05:25:51 PM »
So, you want hero ball.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

goldeneagle91114

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2023, 07:44:58 PM »
So, you want hero ball.

@Tower912 Apologies, if that's how you interpreted what i wrote, then let me clarify...

1. I want Kam or Tyler to bring the ball up the floor and initiate our action.
2. I want the ball to move quickly, either through passing, drive and kick, pick-and-roll etc.
     (I do not want Jop to try and back his man down, or for anyone to play hero ball (kam included))
3. The goal should be a few things.
     a.  clear driving lane for Kam or Tyler
     b. Get a mismatch on Oso, clear out the side, and i let him backdown his defender (again no hero ball. If its not there than keep the ball moving)
    c. Find Kam or Tyler open for a 3.

These 3 things will not always be open. AT THAT POINT then I think its fine for Jop, gold, chase, Stevie to look for a shot. It appears that Shaka has given the entire team the green light. I'd just like to see us try to get the ball in our shooters hands. There's no reason Jop should have taken 13 fg's (3-13) against WI, or chase should have taken 6 fg's (0-6) against Purdue, or Stevie should have taken 5, 3-pointers (1-5) against Kansas.

Finally, there have been moment of hero ball. I'd like to see that end to.

The team has done the above pretty consistently so far this season, and seen amazing results (nothing said above is ear shattering, i get it). However, It was just strange how we completely moved away from all of it on Saturday.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2023, 08:10:36 PM by goldeneagle91114 »

MuggsyB

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2023, 08:08:51 PM »
Like many others here, "disappointed" doesn't adequately cover how I felt watching the game. A friend texted me to say he literally threw his beer glass at his TV - "Good thing I have f%ckin sh!tty aim!"

So I tend to avoid Hangin' at the Al after losses like that. (Thankfully, they've been few and far between the last year.)

With some time having past, here's where I am now about our team ...

++ We'll have trouble beating any good team, especially on the road, when Kolek and Oso are playing well below their best level. They are our studs. We need them to play like studs.

++ It wasn't Shaka's best game. No adjustments on leaving Klesmit wide open the entire first half, the rotations were just off all game, Joplin probably got too much PT, etc. Madison just seemed more ready for the game. Being 0-3 against Madison sucks - no way to sugarcoat it. Still loving Shaka, though; every coach has the occasional dud.

++ Joplin was bad. But until this game, he had played about as I expected him to play. He is what he is. He can get red hot and that can help us tremendously (as against UCLA), he's a floor-spacer, he sometimes defends and rebounds OK, he sometimes disappears. He's a role player.

++ In addition to us not being a good rebounding team, two other problems contributed to the discrepancy on the boards: Our defenders often failed to keep their men in front of them, forcing Oso or others to help, which left the weakside open for Madison rebounders; and our guys sometimes failed to hold onto rebounds that were right in their hands. On a couple of the latter occasions, we lost the ball out of bounds when two MU players contested each other. Ugh.

++ Madison players routinely beat our guys to loose basketballs and to favored spots on the floor. I wouldn't be surprised if this pissed off Shaka more than anything else that happened, as it speaks to effort and hoops IQ.

++ For a team that has built its offense around 3s and layups/dunks, we've had too many guys who can't hit wide-open 3s this season. We often only have two 3-point threats on the floor, and only one if Jop is having one of his off games. Unless Ross, who has been a bit disappointing this season, or someone else starts shooting better, this could be the liability that kills us in the biggest games.

++ Madison played well. Some of that was us not adequately challenging them on what they do best ... but as much as it hurts, I have to give credit where it's due.

++ Our loss to Madison wasn't even close to the most eye-popping college basketball results of the day. Calipari got beat at home by UNC-Wilmington (!!!), Duke lost to Georgia Tech and Nova lost to yet another Philly team. It doesn't make our loss "good" or any easier to take, it's just part of "shyte happens."

++ I'm still very optimistic about Marquette's prospects this season, still expect big things. It will be telling to see how the guys respond Wednesday against Texas, and then later in the month at Provi and vs Creighton. Tough games, but all that a top-10, legit natty contender should win. We should be 11-2 - and absolutely no worse than 10-3 - going into 2024.

We Are Marquette!

Good points overall.  I'm still incredibly upset but believe we can right the ship Wednesday.  That said we have to get more consistency from Jop/Ross .

Viper

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2023, 08:55:43 PM »
I really dislike UW. 3 straight L’s to them? This is how I feel 2 days later. I know, I probably need therapy.

WarriorFan

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2023, 09:07:00 PM »
I think we will look back in April at this game and refer to it as the most important game of the year because:
- it was a bit of a wake up call
- There is a style of play issue, and Shaka will deal with it.  Maybe he couldn't make in game adjustments, but with time to prepare, he will.
- Turning the tables against opposing bigs using Oso's athleticism will become more important... like against Kansas
- Never again will 3 starters and the 6th man have a bad game all at the same time.  Kolek, Jop, Ross, Oso.  The guys need to pick each other up and build confidence.

By the way, if Gold is making 3's on the pick and pop, as a coach I'm riding that until he's exhausted. 
"The meaning of life isn't gnashing our bicuspids over what comes after death but tasting the tiny moments that come before it."

We R Final Four

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2023, 09:24:58 PM »
I’m still surprised…..even two days later….that some scoopers thought this was going to a 10+ point MU victory on the road.

PointWarrior

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2023, 10:00:59 PM »
COLE - should have been a 10+ pt victory

I’m still surprised…..even two days later….that some scoopers thought this was going to a 10+ point MU victory on the road.

MU82

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2023, 11:20:42 PM »
So, you want hero ball.

Kam had a good game, but one of our worst possessions was him getting a rebound, dribbling all the way down, dribbling into the lane, and tossing a piece of garbage at the rim that had no chance. The ball never touched anyone else's hands. We were down 5 or 6 at the time and were desperately in need of a good possession ending in a quality shot. So even he's not immune every once in awhile.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Goose

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2023, 01:31:42 AM »
My biggest takeaway, Shaka and MU have a little over three months to figure out how to beat the UW, MSU style of play. While I still am not concerned about MU being easily scouted or can’t beat the UW style of play, I know countless scoopers are going to worry about facing that style in March.

There are folks on here that dwell on the UW game and that is fine by me, I am not one them. I think MU is roughly 35-9 over past 1+ season and four of the losses are Purdue and UW, with three them being under five point defeats. If that is MU being figured out, I’ll take it and their chances in March.

I will add, they have not played a legit home game and have five quality opponents completed on the schedule. I think the first eight games on the schedule were a very difficult task and if UW was the one one slip up,   I’d say that it was crazy good start of the season.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2023, 01:42:15 AM by Goose »

muwarrior69

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2023, 07:03:26 AM »
So, do we route for UW to beat Arizona?

Uncle Rico

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2023, 07:06:28 AM »
So, do we route for UW to beat Arizona?

No, I’m sure they have a map
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

Scoop Snoop

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2023, 07:28:09 AM »
No, I’m sure they have a map

Autocorrect can go straight to he'll!
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

muwarrior97

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2023, 09:17:33 AM »
Put Gold on the post player.    Let Oso guard the stretch 4.
Hard to play a guy when he can't defend without fouling, 3 fouls in 6 mins AND zero rebounds

#RGV #ReturnTheWarriorMindset

MU82

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Re: 2 days later view
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2023, 09:28:30 AM »
My biggest takeaway, Shaka and MU have a little over three months to figure out how to beat the UW, MSU style of play. While I still am not concerned about MU being easily scouted or can’t beat the UW style of play, I know countless scoopers are going to worry about facing that style in March.

There are folks on here that dwell on the UW game and that is fine by me, I am not one them. I think MU is roughly 35-9 over past 1+ season and four of the losses are Purdue and UW, with three them being under five point defeats. If that is MU being figured out, I’ll take it and their chances in March.

I will add, they have not played a legit home game and have five quality opponents completed on the schedule. I think the first eight games on the schedule were a very difficult task and if UW was the one one slip up,   I’d say that it was crazy good start of the season.

Well said, Goose. I do have a feeling that tomorrow night's game is weirdly important for early December.

Marquette's playing a real good team at home and needs to be sharp. An L would mean losses in 3 out of 4 games - not a great look for a team that wants a #1 seed.

I'm confident that Shaka will have the guys ready and that it will be one of our best games of the season.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson