collapse

* '23-'24 SOTG Tally


2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek11
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.6
Mitchell2
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

'22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

Tyler Kolek and Oso Ighodaro NBA Combine by Tyler COLEk
[May 20, 2024, 11:10:42 PM]


Recruiting as of 5/15/24 by MU82
[May 20, 2024, 10:14:11 PM]


Big East response to NCAA antitrust settlement by The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole
[May 20, 2024, 03:33:38 PM]


Bill Scholl Retiring by rocket surgeon
[May 20, 2024, 05:49:35 AM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: The long cold summer

Marquette
Marquette

Open Practice

Date/Time: Oct 11, 2024 ???
TV: NA
Schedule for 2023-24
27-10

Author Topic: Be The Difference, Serve The Time  (Read 5190 times)

Jay Bee

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9083
Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« on: June 10, 2023, 10:44:39 AM »
https://www.irs.gov/pub/lanoa/am-2023-004.pdf

I like the language the Be The Difference NIL Collective, which has no affiliation w MU, uses … basically, “talk to ur tax person”.

If you’re “donating” to a collective, my tax advice is do not claim it as a deductible charitable contribution.
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

muwarrior69

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5150
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2023, 12:19:53 PM »
https://www.irs.gov/pub/lanoa/am-2023-004.pdf

I like the language the Be The Difference NIL Collective, which has no affiliation w MU, uses … basically, “talk to ur tax person”.

If you’re “donating” to a collective, my tax advice is do not claim it as a deductible charitable contribution.

MU alums can support the the basketball program anyway they prefer, but my perspective on this is if the big money "guys"  can buy out Wojo's contract, and the University can extend Shaks's contract they can come up with the NIL money as well.

brewcity77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 26506
  • Warning-This poster may trigger thin skinned users
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2023, 12:38:40 PM »
The University literally can't. It's against the rules. How many times does this need to be explained?
This space reserved for a 2024 2025 National Championship celebration banner.

muwarrior69

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5150
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2023, 01:07:29 PM »
The University literally can't. It's against the rules. How many times does this need to be explained?

The University can reach out to big donors to buy out Wojo, but they can't reach out to big donors for NIL or shell out more for Shaka?

If there are rules who is enforcing them?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2023, 01:09:36 PM by muwarrior69 »

jfp61

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1465
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2023, 01:08:31 PM »
yea, of course an IRS Memorandum says that. They want money.  Wait until a supreme court case is heard over it.

If it fails i can't wait for a Jacques Marquette themed NIL fund that is a religious based fund, get our religious exception on.

muwarrior69

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5150
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2023, 01:13:44 PM »
yea, of course an IRS Memorandum says that. They want money.  Wait until a supreme court case is heard over it.

If it fails i can't wait for a Jacques Marquette themed NIL fund that is a religious based fund, get our religious exception on.

I like that. We would have an advantage over all the state and non-religious private schools. I'm sure the big donors would like that. A nice tax write off.

The Equalizer

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1783
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2023, 01:41:20 PM »
Quote from: brewcity77 link=topic=64843.msg1556002#msg1556002 date=
The University literally can't. It's against the rules. How many times does this need to be explained?

Except that there's nothing that would stop Shaka from casually pointing out to said donor that next year's team depends on Player X returning to the team, and that player is getting a very attractive NIL offer that would require him to relocate to a different market.  Of course, if he relocates, he won't be able to attend (or play for) MU.

That donor would be more than able to connect the dots without being explicitly directed to do so by the university.

The Lens

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4939
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2023, 03:06:32 PM »
MU69: I want a top flight program. And I don’t want to pay for it.
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car.    ---- Dr. Blackheart

History is so valuable if you have the humility to learn from it.    ---- Shaka Smart

muwarrior69

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5150
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2023, 05:18:20 PM »
MU69: I want a top flight program. And I don’t want to pay for it.

So how much are forking over?

79Warrior

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4105
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2023, 05:29:51 PM »
MU alums can support the the basketball program anyway they prefer, but my perspective on this is if the big money "guys"  can buy out Wojo's contract, and the University can extend Shaks's contract they can come up with the NIL money as well.

The difference is the NIL is for players. Shaka is an employee of the University. Rules are completely different.

muwarrior69

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5150
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2023, 06:53:17 PM »
The difference is the NIL is for players. Shaka is an employee of the University. Rules are completely different.

...and the high end donors make sure the University has the dough to pay that employee or buyout his contract when they part ways. The rules may be different but who is enforcing those rules?

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12052
  • “Good lord, you are an idiot.” - real chili 83
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2023, 09:33:37 PM »
The University can reach out to big donors to buy out Wojo, but they can't reach out to big donors for NIL or shell out more for Shaka?

If there are rules who is enforcing them?

They most definitely can donate the money to Be the Difference. The question is if those donations can be considered tax deductible.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Jay Bee

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9083
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2023, 09:36:13 PM »
They most definitely can donate the money to Be the Difference. The question is if those donations can be considered tax deductible.

Yes. The other question is related to the orgs themselves… can run into trouble quickly
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12052
  • “Good lord, you are an idiot.” - real chili 83
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2023, 09:37:54 PM »
yea, of course an IRS Memorandum says that. They want money.  Wait until a supreme court case is heard over it.

If it fails i can't wait for a Jacques Marquette themed NIL fund that is a religious based fund, get our religious exception on.


This will never get to the Court. They usually let the IRS interpret its rules.

This isn’t surprising. I have no idea what charitable purpose is served through giving NIL money to student athletes. Maybe if those athletes are being paid to “volunteer” at a charity, but that’s pretty tenuous.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12052
  • “Good lord, you are an idiot.” - real chili 83
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2023, 09:39:02 PM »
Yes. The other question is related to the orgs themselves… can run into trouble quickly

Correct. If they aren’t charities they aren’t tax exempt.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Room510

  • Scholarship Player
  • **
  • Posts: 79
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2023, 12:11:01 PM »
So now :
1> Donations to Athletic Departments, which go to pay multi-million dollar coaches salaries plus highly comped AD's and other admins - these are fully deductible
2> Donations to NIL Collectives, which go to pay relatively smaller amounts to athletes - not deductible

Just another example of how the current NIL structure (or really, non-structure) is a lot of non-sense and won't stand the test of time.  The day when schools will pay the athletes directly is coming, probably faster than many expect.  Hopefully that will include some sort of competitive balance provisions which all successful professional sports leagues include.



dgies9156

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4048
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2023, 12:21:31 PM »
The notion that there is somehow no coordination between the school and the NIL cooperatives is so cutely naïve.

Where do you think the donor lists for the NIL cooperatives come from? Thin air? That's huge. And while there can't be direct coordination between the two, what's to prevent an athletic director and the head of an NIL cooperative from having a "friendly" lunch, where nothing is written down, no evidence of action taken and no retribution. Ditto for phone calls and "at home" dinners.

You lawyers know this! Bill Scholl has an innocent dinner with Joe Jones of the Be the Difference NIL Cooperative. Say they are old friends and their wives come over at Scholl's home in Mequon. Or River Hills. Or wherever. They have a pleasant evening, share a fine bottle of wine and talk about the old days. Part of the way through the conversation, the ladies go out and look at the Scholls' flower garden when Scholl raises a question of Jones: "We need $12 million for next year so we can compete with Michigan for Super A. Stud, a 6'10" power forward from Chicago. Shaka has about got him but the family has an impressive offer from the Wolverines."

Prove that one with the NCAA!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2023, 12:23:08 PM by dgies9156 »

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12052
  • “Good lord, you are an idiot.” - real chili 83
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2023, 12:22:12 PM »
Donations to athletic departments are tax deductible because they fall under the university's 501(c)(3) status. Unlike NIL collectives, no one questions whether or not colleges and universities qualify as charities under 501(c)(3).

The real question should be if athletic income should qualify as unrelated business income and therefore be taxable.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

jfp61

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1465
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2023, 12:26:40 PM »

This will never get to the Court. They usually let the IRS interpret its rules.

This isn’t surprising. I have no idea what charitable purpose is served through giving NIL money to student athletes. Maybe if those athletes are being paid to “volunteer” at a charity, but that’s pretty tenuous.

don't doubt justice thomas and his love for huskers football

Herman Cain

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12919
  • 9-9-9
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2023, 12:50:08 PM »
One of the collectives our business is involved with , makes no pretense to be a charity.

This entity has raised considerable funds and is writing big checks in the Portal Market .

Will see if the players pan out .
The only mystery in life is why the Kamikaze Pilots wore helmets...
            ---Al McGuire

muwarrior69

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5150
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2023, 03:36:27 PM »
The notion that there is somehow no coordination between the school and the NIL cooperatives is so cutely naïve.

Where do you think the donor lists for the NIL cooperatives come from? Thin air? That's huge. And while there can't be direct coordination between the two, what's to prevent an athletic director and the head of an NIL cooperative from having a "friendly" lunch, where nothing is written down, no evidence of action taken and no retribution. Ditto for phone calls and "at home" dinners.

You lawyers know this! Bill Scholl has an innocent dinner with Joe Jones of the Be the Difference NIL Cooperative. Say they are old friends and their wives come over at Scholl's home in Mequon. Or River Hills. Or wherever. They have a pleasant evening, share a fine bottle of wine and talk about the old days. Part of the way through the conversation, the ladies go out and look at the Scholls' flower garden when Scholl raises a question of Jones: "We need $12 million for next year so we can compete with Michigan for Super A. Stud, a 6'10" power forward from Chicago. Shaka has about got him but the family has an impressive offer from the Wolverines."

Prove that one with the NCAA!

...and Scholl's wife returns with 20 million dollars in cash that Mrs. Jones just so happens to find in Mrs. Scholl's garden.

dgies9156

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4048
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2023, 08:14:50 AM »
OK gang, I have no problem with people contributing to "Be the Difference" NIL Cooperative.  But, there's no way on God's blue-green earth that the contributions should be tax deductible.

Yeah, I know, conservative, less government, etc.....

But, historically 501(c)3 status was reserved for agencies that provide societal benefit. Basic needs, education, alleviating suffering and so forth. Whoever wrote the 501(c)3 laws undoubtedly did not have supporting basketball players as a tax-deductible activity. That's not what the law was meant for, nor should it be.

If you want a tax deduction or a sense of doing good, there's lots of worthy causes, including many at Marquette. If you want a great basketball, give to NIL. Better yet, do both but don't take the NIL as a tax deduction!

Thanks for listening!

MU90620

  • Scholarship Player
  • **
  • Posts: 57
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2023, 11:20:47 AM »
Whoever wrote the 501(c)3 laws undoubtedly did not have supporting basketball players as a tax-deductible activity. That's not what the law was meant for, nor should it be.


501(c)(3) entities have been supporting basketball players for years. Just not at the college level. Virtually every travel basketball program in the country is set up as a 501(c)(3). Most of the money being poured into youth basketball teams is deductible. Even when it’s for your kid’s team. I can’t speak to how many people actually take the deduction, but they could.  Most High School programs set up 501(c)(3)s for their offseason activities as well.

I’m not trying to counter your point of that they shouldn’t be deductible, but they are.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12052
  • “Good lord, you are an idiot.” - real chili 83
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2023, 11:34:21 AM »
501(c)(3) entities have been supporting basketball players for years. Just not at the college level. Virtually every travel basketball program in the country is set up as a 501(c)(3). Most of the money being poured into youth basketball teams is deductible. Even when it’s for your kid’s team. I can’t speak to how many people actually take the deduction, but they could.  Most High School programs set up 501(c)(3)s for their offseason activities as well.

I’m not trying to counter your point of that they shouldn’t be deductible, but they are.

Youth travel teams are set up as 501(c)(3) organizations because one of the explicit exempt purposes outlined by the IRS is "fostering national or international amateur sports competition."  The players don't receive compensation - they are receiving the charitable benefits of the organization.  Coaches may be getting some compensation, but it could at least be argued that they are being paid to help the organization further its mission.

The difference with NIL collectives is that they are paying the players to perform another organization's charitable purpose. That is a pretty tenuous link to a charitable purpose.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

dgies9156

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4048
Re: Be The Difference, Serve The Time
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2023, 07:39:40 AM »
The IRS basically agrees with JB:

https://www.wsj.com/sports/irs-tax-edge-college-sports-booster-groups-427d403f?mod=Searchresults_pos1&page=1

From a Marquette standpoint, it comes down to this: Give to the Blue & Gold Fund, get a tax deduction.

Give to Be the Difference, fat chance.