Damar Hamlin

[tower912]

I am starting this separate thread with the thought that we can discuss everything regarding this young man's circumstances here, while talking about the rest of the NFL in the NFL thread.   A lot to unpack overnight.

He is still alive.  Continue your prayers.

The NFL claims it never said the game would resume after 5 minutes.   I know that sometimes in chaotic crisis situations, somebody will say something inaccurate that they don't have the authority to say.   Ultimately, the correct thing was done.

I am comfortable with the theory that the cause was a blow to the chest.   There are many documented cases of this.   Looking at the play, the theory fits the visual.

Whatever decisions are made going forward regarding NFL related things, finishing the game, playoff implications, a lot of people are going to disagree and get their bloomers in a bundle.    There are no clear and easy answers.

There is a story out there that Hamlin's foundation was flooded with donations overnight.  If true, way cool.

[MuggsyB]

There are no clear answers.  It very well could have been that blow to the chest or something entirely different.  Hopefully this young man makes it, that's all we can think about right now. 

[StillAWarrior]

There is a story out there that Hamlin's foundation was flooded with donations overnight.  If true, way cool.

It is true. When I first heard about the GoFundMe last night, they were talking about how it had reached $300k. Currently, it sits at over $3.3 million.

Prayers for Hamlin and his family.

[Uncle Rico]

I am starting this separate thread with the thought that we can discuss everything regarding this young man's circumstances here, while talking about the rest of the NFL in the NFL thread.   A lot to unpack overnight.

He is still alive.  Continue your prayers.

The NFL claims it never said the game would resume after 5 minutes.   I know that sometimes in chaotic crisis situations, somebody will say something inaccurate that they don't have the authority to say.   Ultimately, the correct thing was done.

I am comfortable with the theory that the cause was a blow to the chest.   There are many documented cases of this.   Looking at the play, the theory fits the visual.

Whatever decisions are made going forward regarding NFL related things, finishing the game, playoff implications, a lot of people are going to disagree and get their bloomers in a bundle.    There are no clear and easy answers.

There is a story out there that Hamlin's foundation was flooded with donations overnight.  If true, way cool.

It was a violent hit to the chest with turf impact.  Really, a worst case scenario for the NFL with regards to player safety.  Whether they like it or not, a lot of debate about football is going to happen.  They do have the luxury of corporate America so invested in the game, any real debates can be drowned out

[MU82]

Officially being called "cardiac arrest."

Thanks for starting this thread, tower. Important topic.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It would be awfully coincidental to not have been caused by that hit. Now, the hit may have unveiled a previously unknown medical condition, but I think it is pretty clear what caused this.

I think in the back of everyone's minds, people knew this was likely to happen at some point. Human beings are not meant to run into one another at great rates of speed, and no matter what you do, the game isn't inherently safe. (No sporting event is really, but football especially.)

I said this in the NFL topic, but the league just has to cancel this game. There is no way that the Bills are going to be prepared mentally to play football anytime before Sunday. And if Hamlin does pass away, my guess is the Bills won't play that one either.

[tower912]

I am a big fan of the players gathering around to block the activity on the ground from view of the cameras.    Watching CPR being done is not pleasant.    It used to seriously piss me off when I would be doing CPR in public and look up to see somebody taking video with their camera.    So, bravo players.   
     However, in doing so, if they were watching, they were also inflicting emotional damage on themselves.    I know it is a family member.   But the unnatural things being done to their family member are going to be seared in their memories for a while.    I always encouraged family members to go to another room if possible.    I would flat out tell them that it was the most unpleasant thing they could ever watch and it was in their best interest to not watch. 
    For football players, watching a peer/friend/teammate/comrade in arms/brother have his football equipment removed and cut off so the paramedics can work must be an even different level of anguish.   Their pads and helmets are such symbols.   

[Uncle Rico]

I am a big fan of the players gathering around to block the activity on the ground from view of the cameras.    Watching CPR being done is not pleasant.    It used to seriously piss me off when I would be doing CPR in public and look up to see somebody taking video with their camera.    So, bravo players.   
     However, in doing so, if they were watching, they were also inflicting emotional damage on themselves.    I know it is a family member.   But the unnatural things being done to their family member are going to be seared in their memories for a while.    I always encouraged family members to go to another room if possible.    I would flat out tell them that it was the most unpleasant thing they could ever watch and it was in their best interest to not watch. 
    For football players, watching a peer/friend/teammate/comrade in arms/brother have his football equipment removed and cut off so the paramedics can work must be an even different level of anguish.   Their pads and helmets are such symbols.

Everyone talks about safer helmets but the reality is, the helmets make these guys more dangerous

[pbiflyer]

I have not watched any video. I learned my lesson with Joe Theisman.

It was also annoying that they kept showing close ups of the distraught players over and over again. I know they say they are trying to show the humanity,but really they are just being salacious.

Tower, I heard many of the players faced away just for the reasons you cited. I feel so bad for the players, especially the receiver that delivered the hit. That is going to mess with him probably forever unless there is a full recovery.

[GB Warrior]

I think regardless of whether or how Hamlin recovers, there are a lot of players who were introduced to their own mortality. Time will tell of there is a reverberation of early retirements, but what the players endured last night is traumatic, and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see players make a choice this offseason.

[wadesworld]

I am a big fan of the players gathering around to block the activity on the ground from view of the cameras.    Watching CPR being done is not pleasant.    It used to seriously piss me off when I would be doing CPR in public and look up to see somebody taking video with their camera.    So, bravo players.   
     However, in doing so, if they were watching, they were also inflicting emotional damage on themselves.    I know it is a family member.   But the unnatural things being done to their family member are going to be seared in their memories for a while.    I always encouraged family members to go to another room if possible.    I would flat out tell them that it was the most unpleasant thing they could ever watch and it was in their best interest to not watch. 
    For football players, watching a peer/friend/teammate/comrade in arms/brother have his football equipment removed and cut off so the paramedics can work must be an even different level of anguish.   Their pads and helmets are such symbols.

The brother of the guy who collapsed when we were playing pick-up basketball was playing with us. He was urging us not to shock him when the AED was saying to. He had to be walked away by a couple of people.

[MuggsyB]

Everyone talks about safer helmets but the reality is, the helmets make these guys more dangerous

Should they go back to the leather headgear?  The sport is chronically dangerous.  Obviously what happened last night was highly unusual but unless you're a kicker or punter it's probable you will be dealing with serious physical and mental pain as a retired pro football player.  Their aren't a lot of good safety solutions for the NFL. 

[tower912]

The brother of the guy who collapsed when we were playing pick-up basketball was playing with us. He was urging us not to shock him when the AED was saying to. He had to be walked away by a couple of people.

Twice in my career, I did CPR on family members of firefighters.   The first time, my friend burst in and tried to take over.  I put him into a wall and, with my forearm buried in his chest, told him to go take care of the rest of his family and that he knew better.    He thanked me later, but he did not like me in the moment.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Should they go back to the leather headgear?  The sport is chronically dangerous.  Obviously what happened last night was highly unusual but unless you're a kicker or punter it's probable you will be dealing with serious physical and mental pain as a retired pro football player.  Their aren't a lot of good safety solutions for the NFL. 

Nothing is going to fundamentally change about football based on what happened last night.

[MUBurrow]

Nothing is going to fundamentally change about football based on what happened last night.

Yep. Rough play and obviously a beyond horrible outcome, but there were probably five plays in every game this week that looked/were more likely to cause serious injury than Hamlin's tackle last night.

[MuggsyB]

Nothing is going to fundamentally change about football based on what happened last night.

That's correct. 

[JWags85]

Yep. Rough play and obviously a beyond horrible outcome, but there were probably five plays in every game this week that looked/were more likely to cause serious injury than Hamlin's tackle last night.

Yep, for example, in the OSU-UGA game on Sat night, the hit that knocked Marvin Harrison Jr out for awhile was 5x more dangerous and violent and was a deemed a legal hit/play.

[Hards Alumni]

Everyone talks about safer helmets but the reality is, the helmets make these guys more dangerous

I've been saying to friends and family for a while that taking away the pads will slow down the players.

[tower912]

A la rugby?

[Uncle Rico]

I've been saying to friends and family for a while that taking away the pads will slow down the players.

The game will become more violent as more generations pass.  We will continue to push the boundaries of the body and get faster and bigger

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Rugby players have a higher rate of injury, and higher rate of concussions, than football players. So I think getting rid of pads would be terrible.

[MU82]

Yep, for example, in the OSU-UGA game on Sat night, the hit that knocked Marvin Harrison Jr out for awhile was 5x more dangerous and violent and was a deemed a legal hit/play.

Yeah, I wasn't surprised the targeting call was reversed, but he sure seemed like a "defenseless player" to me.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Yeah, I wasn't surprised the targeting call was reversed, but he sure seemed like a "defenseless player" to me.

He was a defenseless player, but he wasn't hit in the head or neck area, which is when targeting comes into effect. 

[JWags85]

Rugby players have a higher rate of injury, and higher rate of concussions, than football players. So I think getting rid of pads would be terrible.

Ive always found that argument to be amusing.  Football is brutal and injury filled, but the number of rugby players you see with cauliflower ear, permanently f-ed noses, and missing teeth is pretty significant in numbers you don't see in the NFL, and thats not counting all the other injuries they share with football players.

[pbiflyer]

Ive always found that argument to be amusing.  Football is brutal and injury filled, but the number of rugby players you see with cauliflower ear, permanently f-ed noses, and missing teeth is pretty significant in numbers you don't see in the NFL, and thats not counting all the other injuries they share with football players.

And don’t get me started on their livers.

[Uncle Rico]

Ive always found that argument to be amusing.  Football is brutal and injury filled, but the number of rugby players you see with cauliflower ear, permanently f-ed noses, and missing teeth is pretty significant in numbers you don't see in the NFL, and thats not counting all the other injuries they share with football players.

There’s something to be said about the helmet as a weapon, though.  I’m not saying get rid of helmets, but there is a recklessness factor caused by a certain feeling of invincibility with the helmet being on, especially as we tout new and safer helmets.

The other and maybe more realistic argument is, human beings of today aren’t meant to play sports with a combination of that speed and violence

[WhiteTrash]

The game will become more violent as more generations pass.  We will continue to push the boundaries of the body and get faster and bigger

I suppose you are correct. Don't sell old timers short, I am still amused by Butkus relating the stories of his dream of hitting another player so hard that his head comes off.

[Uncle Rico]

I suppose you are correct. Don't sell old timers short, I am still amused by Butkus relating the stories of his dream of hitting another player so hard that his head comes off.

I’m not selling them short at all.  The game was way more violent.  It’s much more regulated today but I’m not sure they can regulate the speed and size of todays players in any meaningfully safe way

https://youtube.com/shorts/hrI9x3q2oa8?feature=share

[JWags85]

I’m not selling them short at all.  The game was way more violent.  It’s much more regulated today but I’m not sure they can regulate the speed and size of todays players in any meaningfully safe way

https://youtube.com/shorts/hrI9x3q2oa8?feature=share

Yep.  Butkus is a great example, he was HUGE in his era.  Fearsome for his attitude, but also his sheer size.  He was 6'3, 235.  Micah Parsons is 6'3, 245 and he's not thought of as monstrous.  TJ Watt is 6'4, 255.

The average OL in the 70s was 250 lbs.  Can you imagine them blocking Aaron Donald who throws around 325-250 lb OL in the modern NFL?  Stopping 6'5 290 lbs Joey Bosa off the end?

Roger Staubach played at 197 lbs, he'd get broken in half in todays NFL, even with generous QB protection.

OJ Simpson played at 6'1 210, thats a good 20 lbs less than most RBs.  A similar physical comp, Adrian Peterson, is also 6'1, but 220.  And OJ ran a 4.7 40, that would drop you into the later rounds these days.  Josh Jacobs ran a 4.6 out of Bama and got major scrutiny.  AP, his size comp, ran a 4.4

And thats all the 70s, not even talking 50s and 60s.  Its not sh**ing on the ability of the older legends of the game before some of our older board members come to defend the golden years, but rather just highlighting how ridiculous todays athletes are in comparison.  Can you imagine the average NFL CB in the Lombardi years trying to stay with Tyreke Hill or bump DK Metcalf off the line?

[tower912]

Jack Ham and Andy Russel played at 215 lbs and Jack Lambert at 220.  Starting linebackers for the Steel Curtain.   Jerry Kramer, acclaimed author, 265.   Dave Casper, TE extraordinaire, 235.

[MU82]

Yep.  Butkus is a great example, he was HUGE in his era.  Fearsome for his attitude, but also his sheer size.  He was 6'3, 235.  Micah Parsons is 6'3, 245 and he's not thought of as monstrous.  TJ Watt is 6'4, 255.

The average OL in the 70s was 250 lbs.  Can you imagine them blocking Aaron Donald who throws around 325-250 lb OL in the modern NFL?  Stopping 6'5 290 lbs Joey Bosa off the end?

Roger Staubach played at 197 lbs, he'd get broken in half in todays NFL, even with generous QB protection.

OJ Simpson played at 6'1 210, thats a good 20 lbs less than most RBs.  A similar physical comp, Adrian Peterson, is also 6'1, but 220.  And OJ ran a 4.7 40, that would drop you into the later rounds these days.  Josh Jacobs ran a 4.6 out of Bama and got major scrutiny.  AP, his size comp, ran a 4.4

And thats all the 70s, not even talking 50s and 60s.  Its not sh**ing on the ability of the older legends of the game before some of our older board members come to defend the golden years, but rather just highlighting how ridiculous todays athletes are in comparison.  Can you imagine the average NFL CB in the Lombardi years trying to stay with Tyreke Hill or bump DK Metcalf off the line?

I pretty much worshiped the 1971-74 Miami Dolphins (and the '80s weren't bad either), and I agree 100% with you.

Comparing within eras is fine, but it is absolutely ridiculous to compare players from one era to another.

[GOO]

It won’t be long until humans are genetically modifiable for traits. It may be that humans 200 years from now will look back on us as a lessor species.  Scary what kind of humans corporations and army's may want to trait develop for their own purposes. 

Businesses like football may need radically different rules to compensate, on a more drastic scale than what we’ve seen recently.  Unless technology can compensate and keep up, players could get ripped apart. 

[warriorchick]

I pretty much worshiped the 1971-74 Miami Dolphins (and the '80s weren't bad either), and I agree 100% with you.

Comparing within eras is fine, but it is absolutely ridiculous to compare players from one era to another.

Yep.  Remember when William Perry was considered ridiculously large?

[MU82]

Yep.  Remember when William Perry was considered ridiculously large?

I actually was having a conversation about the Fridge with a Bears-fan friend not that long ago.

Ditka fined Fridge whenever his weight exceeded 300 pounds (IIRC; might have been another figure, but it was close to 300). Today, he'd have been more likely to get fined if his weight dipped BELOW 300 pounds!

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Yep.  Remember when William Perry was considered ridiculously large?

The Bears had to sew 2 uniform shirts together.

[StillAWarrior]

From the Bills:

"Per the physicians caring for Damar Hamlin at the University of Cincinnati Medical Center, Damar has shown remarkable improvement over the past 24 hours. While still critically ill, he has demonstrated that he appears to be neurologically intact. His lungs continue to heal and he is making steady progress. We are grateful for the love and support we have received."

All good news.


Also, his GoFundMe passed $7 million. Reading the list of "Top Donors" is interesting. It's also interesting to see how many fantasy football leagues have contributed.

[Goose]

Fingers crossed for Hamlin. It is great to see some encouraging news.

[MUBurrow]

Also, his GoFundMe passed $7 million. Reading the list of "Top Donors" is interesting.

[wadesworld]

Is $3 the amount GoFundMe takes or something?  Why are a number of the top donations $XXX3.00?

[StillAWarrior]

Is $3 the amount GoFundMe takes or something?  Why are a number of the top donations $XXX3.00?

His jersey is No. 3

[StillAWarrior]

I noticed that. Twice.

[tower912]

I would like to tip my hat to the $20 an hour paramedics who did their job so well,  who have probably done CPR at least two more times this week, who didn't get to take the rest of the night off.     Well done, brothers/sisters.   A save is always a wonderful thing.   The fact that Damar is alive and nobody knows who you are means you did your job well.   

[MuggsyB]

Encouraging news about the young man.  Great to hear.

[StillAWarrior]

I would like to tip my hat to the $20 an hour paramedics who did their job so well,  who have probably done CPR at least two more times this week, who didn't get to take the rest of the night off.     Well done, brothers/sisters.   A save is always a wonderful thing.   The fact that Damar is alive and nobody knows who you are means you did your job well.   

Amen.

[jesmu84]

Whole situation could have been avoided if he was smart and skipped the vaccine

[tower912]

Assuming teal from you.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That certainly sounds like a positive update. Hoping that he makes a full recovery.

[dgies9156]

What has happened, as others have hinted, is NFL players have become swifter, stronger and heavier.

The human anatomy is not built for the kind of contact Mr. Hamlin sustained. While professional and college football players often do sustain it, the CTE, the horrible injuries (yes, you, Joe Theismann) and the maiming that affects people for the rest of their lives appears to be coming increasingly devestating.

A few years back, I was at a Bears game where Johnny Knox's leg was mangled and almost amputated. While not life threatening, my fear is this is what pro football is coming to. Ask Teddy Bridgewater what happened to him.

Around the early 1900s, football was killing people. President Teddy Roosevelt sat down with the powers that be and reformed it before it was banned. God help us but maybe that's what President Biden or Congress needs to do.

[Hards Alumni]

What has happened, as others have hinted, is NFL players have become swifter, stronger and heavier.

The human anatomy is not built for the kind of contact Mr. Hamlin sustained. While professional and college football players often do sustain it, the CTE, the horrible injuries (yes, you, Joe Theismann) and the maiming that affects people for the rest of their lives appears to be coming increasingly devestating.

A few years back, I was at a Bears game where Johnny Knox's leg was mangled and almost amputated. While not life threatening, my fear is this is what pro football is coming to. Ask Teddy Bridgewater what happened to him.

Around the early 1900s, football was killing people. President Teddy Roosevelt sat down with the powers that be and reformed it before it was banned. God help us but maybe that's what President Biden or Congress needs to do.

That'll never happen, don't be silly. 

[Jockey]

What has happened, as others have hinted, is NFL players have become swifter, stronger and heavier.

The human anatomy is not built for the kind of contact Mr. Hamlin sustained. While professional and college football players often do sustain it, the CTE, the horrible injuries (yes, you, Joe Theismann) and the maiming that affects people for the rest of their lives appears to be coming increasingly devestating.

A few years back, I was at a Bears game where Johnny Knox's leg was mangled and almost amputated. While not life threatening, my fear is this is what pro football is coming to. Ask Teddy Bridgewater what happened to him.

That was the TE Miller.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

What has happened, as others have hinted, is NFL players have become swifter, stronger and heavier.

The human anatomy is not built for the kind of contact Mr. Hamlin sustained. While professional and college football players often do sustain it, the CTE, the horrible injuries (yes, you, Joe Theismann) and the maiming that affects people for the rest of their lives appears to be coming increasingly devestating.

A few years back, I was at a Bears game where Johnny Knox's leg was mangled and almost amputated. While not life threatening, my fear is this is what pro football is coming to. Ask Teddy Bridgewater what happened to him.

Around the early 1900s, football was killing people. President Teddy Roosevelt sat down with the powers that be and reformed it before it was banned. God help us but maybe that's what President Biden or Congress needs to do.

Biden was a "starter" in college on Delaware's football team and the house is close to voting the Buffalo guy as speaker. 

Don't hold your breath.

[NCMUFan]

Doctor explaining what he believes happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-G9mziXL9w

[NCMUFan]

Sorry, bad link.

[MU82]

From the WSJ:

“Did we win?”

—Buffalo Bills safety Damar Hamlin in a note last night after he woke up for the first time since suffering cardiac arrest during a NFL game against the Cincinnati Bengals on Monday. His physicians said he appeared to be neurologically intact, but remains critically ill and on a ventilator. One of the doctors had an answer for Hamlin: “You’ve won the game of life.”

[MuggsyB]

Great news!  He's up and talking to his family. 

[tower912]

https://www.woodtv.com/news/national/officials-damar-hamlin-released-from-hospital/

Went home.    A victory.    Again, kudos to all involved in the timely emergency care he received.     Take a bow.   IMO, this is more evidence that the cardiac event was due to the impact.   

[Jockey]

https://www.woodtv.com/news/national/officials-damar-hamlin-released-from-hospital/

Went home.    A victory.    Again, kudos to all involved in the timely emergency care he received.     Take a bow.   IMO, this is more evidence that the cardiac event was due to the impact.

Did he go home or just back to a hospital in Buffalo? Either way, he is out of the ICU.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Discharged and allowed to return home.

I drove by the hospital on Sunday morning and saw all the balloons and flowers in front of a hospital fence.  Reporters were doing reports in front of the display.

[lawdog77]

Discharged and allowed to return home.

I drove by the hospital on Sunday morning and saw all the balloons and flowers in front of a hospital fence.  Reporters were doing reports in front of the display.

ESPN states he was transferred to a Buffalo hospital/rehab. not.home

[Jockey]

ESPN states he was transferred to a Buffalo hospital/rehab. not.home

That is correct.

Today, he was released from Buffalo hospital.