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Author Topic: "Neutral"-Site Games  (Read 1741 times)

IL Warrior

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"Neutral"-Site Games
« on: December 12, 2022, 04:38:30 PM »
I noticed some interesting "neutral"-site games across college basketball this upcoming weekend - games listed (at least by ESPN) as neutral-site, but clearly located such that one team is essentially playing a home game outside their regular arena. I did a deeper look at the P6 neutral-site games and found a number of these not-so-neutral matchups:

Wisconsin vs Stanford (Milwaukee, WI)
Tennessee vs Colorado (Nashville, TN)
South Carolina playing in the Shriners Children's Charleston Classic (3 games in Charleston, SC)
Indiana vs Miami-Ohio (Indianapolis, IN)
Texas vs Northern Arizona (Edinburg, TX)
Florida State playing in the ESPN Events Invitational (3 games in Kissimmee, FL)
Texas A&M vs Boise State (Fort Worth, TX)
UNLV vs Washington State (Las Vegas, NV)
Florida vs Ohio (Tampa, FL)
Florida State vs St. John's (Sunrise, FL)
Purdue vs Davidson (Indianapolis, IN)
Arkansas vs Bradley (North Little Rock, AR)
UCF vs Missouri (Sunrise, FL)
Alabama vs Gonzaga (Birmingham, AL)
Georgia vs Notre Dame (Atlanta, GA)
Texas vs Stanford (Dallas, TX)
Baylor vs Washington State (Dallas, TX)
Drake vs Mississippi State (Lincoln, NE)
North Carolina vs Michigan (Charlotte, NC)
Stanford vs Loyola Chicago (Santa Cruz, CA)
Penn State vs Purdue (Philadelphia, PA)
Rutgers vs Michigan State (New York, NY)

Given the supposed emphasis on road and neutral-site performance, is it known whether the selection committee looks at these games differently from "true" neutral-site games? If not, it would seem Marquette should play an annual mid-major opponent at UW-Milwaukee Panther Arena. Heck, maybe even play a few cupcakes in high school gyms around the Milwaukee area and call them "neutral" to inflate our neutral-site numbers.

Jay Bee

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2022, 04:56:39 PM »
The location has meaningful impact to metrics and considerations the selection committee uses. There are guidelines and examples to determine whether the game is home/away/neutral and it’s not as simple as you may be thinking.
 
We can not do what you’re suggesting and have them counted as neutral site games. Some guidance/examples are included below.
 
Team A is playing Team B. For results and the Rating Percentage Index/NET, the contest is considered a home contest for Team A and an away contest for Team B if the site:
 
● Is the regular home site for Team A. Example: The Tennessee softball team is hosting a tournament and is listed as the visitor for its game with Ball State. It is considered a home game for Tennessee since it is still its home field.
 
● Is rented by Team A, and Team A, regardless of the opponent, arranges for officials, controls the tickets (and the game is part of the season-ticket package), and is responsible for game operations. Example: Penn State rents Talen Energy Stadium for a men’s soccer game against Temple. Penn State will handle game-day operations and arrange for officials. Even though the stadium is in Temple’s home city, it is a home game for Penn State.
 
● Is in the same city or a reasonable distance within the metropolitan area of Team A, and its opponent, Team B, is from outside the metro area. Example: The Butler women’s basketball team has a scheduled home game against Indiana at Hinkle Fieldhouse. Butler agrees to play the game at Bankers Life Fieldhouse, which is a few miles away from campus, in order to attract a larger crowd. It is still considered a home game for Butler.
 
● Is in the same city or a reasonable distance within the metropolitan area of both teams and one team, Team A, is designated as the home team and includes the game in its season-ticket package. Example: The Washington women’s soccer team is hosting a game against Seattle. The game is moved to CenturyLink Field, in both team’s metro area, to accommodate a larger crowd. Because Washington was designated the home team initially and the game was included in the season-ticket package, it is still a home game for Washington even though both teams are located in Seattle.
 
● Is in the same area as Team A and Team A plays some or several home games there each season. Oftentimes these games are included in the season ticket package offered by the school.
Example: The UConn men’s basketball team plays some of its home games in its hometown of Storrs; however, the Huskies play most of their games in nearby Hartford. Both sites are considered home sites.
 
● Is in a city close by Team A and Team A designates the game as a home game that will count in its home attendance. The game is also included in the season ticket package offered by the school. Example: Ole Miss men’s basketball team plays a game every two to three years in Tupelo, Mississippi, which is 48 miles away from Oxford. Ole Miss always counts it as a home game and includes the game in its season home attendance.
 
● Is a temporary home site while the regular home site for Team A is being renovated. Example: McGaw Hall on the Northwestern campus is being renovated, which forces the Northwestern basketball teams to move all their home games from Evanston to nearby Chicago and play in DePaul’s home arena. These games are considered home games for Northwestern since that is where the Wildcats are playing their scheduled home games during the renovation.
 
● Is a nearby temporary emergency site while the regular home site for Team A is being repaired. Example: Owensboro Sportscenter at Kentucky Wesleyan was damaged in a tornado. This forces Kentucky Wesleyan to move its basketball home game with Southern Indiana to a nearby high school gymnasium while the Sportscenter is being repaired. Since this game was played in a nearby temporary set-up, it is still considered a home game for Kentucky Wesleyan. However, if no area arenas or gymnasiums are available and the game is moved the 40 miles away to Southern Indiana’s home court, then the game is now considered a home game for Southern Indiana. Team A is playing Team B. For results and RPI/NETs, the contest is considered a neutral-site contest for both teams if the site:
 
● Is at another school that is hosting a tournament. Example: The Wisconsin women’s volleyball team is hosting a tournament in Madison. Colorado and Arizona State play each other in a match during that tournament. It is a neutral site game for both teams. However, if one of those teams were to played Wisconsin, it would be a home game for Wisconsin.
 
● Is a venue other than Team A’s and Team B’s home venue and is hosted and organized by a third party. Example: The LSU and BYU football teams are scheduled to play in the AdvoCare Texas Kickoff game at NRG Stadium in Houston. The game is considered a neutral-site game because Lone Star Sports & Entertainment organized the game and handled all game-day operations.
 
● Is at another school that is hosting a tournament, even though Team A is from the same metro area as the host school and Team B is not. Example: The Temple women’s lacrosse team is hosting a tournament and Villanova plays a game against Auburn. Although Temple and Villanova are both in Philadelphia, since Temple is hosting the tournament on its campus site, only games involving Temple would have a home site. All other games would be counted as neutral-site games.
 
● Is in the same city or metropolitan area of both teams and is not the home site for either team. Example: The SMU women’s basketball team is playing TCU at the American Airlines Center in Dallas, which neither team uses as its regular home site even though both teams are from Dallas. It’s a neutral-site game for both teams. The only exception is if SMU was scheduled to host the game and decided to move it to the American Airlines Center to accommodate an expected larger crowd. Then it is a home game for SMU
 
● Is in the same city or metropolitan area of both teams and is the home site of another team. Example: Kennesaw State and Georgia State are playing each other in a women’s volleyball tournament on the campus of Georgia Tech. It is a neutral-site match for both teams.
 
● Is not in the metropolitan area for either team. Example: The city of Denver is the site for a softball game between Southern Colorado of Pueblo and Air Force of Colorado Springs. It’s a neutral site game for both teams.
 
● Is a site used for a conference tournament that is not a regular home venue for a conference member. Example: The Sun Belt Conference hosts its postseason men’s basketball tournament at the Verizon Arena in North Little Rock, Arkansas. Because no conference team uses the arena for its home games, it is a neutral site for all teams. Since the determination of home/away and neutral site games can sometimes be a complicated issue, a school can appeal to the NCAA for exceptions to the rule. Example: Butler’s men’s basketball team is playing Indiana at Bankers Life Fieldhouse. While it may look like a home game for Butler since the arena and the team are located in Indianapolis, Indiana contracted the game with Butler, rented the arena and the Big Ten conference assigned the game officials. However, the game is not part of either team’s season ticket package, but both teams included the game an option with the season tickets for priority purchasing. In this case, the game will be designated as a neutral site game. For purposes of attendance, some games considered home and away in the RPI/NET may be switched to neutral site games, and vice versa. For example, in Division I baseball, for RPI/NET purposes only, all conference tournament games are considered neutral-site games for all teams even for the host team.
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TallTitan34

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2022, 05:13:46 PM »
I noticed kenpom using the semi-neutral designation for location.

brewcity77

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2022, 05:30:01 PM »
The Charleston Classic also included Charleston, who played and won the MTE on their home court.
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seakm4

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2022, 06:04:45 PM »
Marquette @ Notre Dame was a neutral site game on Saturday too.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2022, 06:18:57 PM »
Marquette @ Notre Dame was a neutral site game on Saturday too.

Or Sunday.
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lawdog77

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2022, 07:19:28 PM »
Or Sunday.
Like the hundreds of thousands who seem to have been there when Wilt scored 100, in the future hundreds of thousands will claim to have spent that wonderful Saturday in South Bend watching our Golden Eagles stomp the fighting Irish

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2022, 07:23:29 PM »
Like the hundreds of thousands who seem to have been there when Wilt scored 100, in the future hundreds of thousands will claim to have spent that wonderful Saturday in South Bend watching our Golden Eagles stomp the fighting Irish

Amen!

StillAWarrior

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2022, 07:40:50 PM »
Like the hundreds of thousands who seem to have been there when Wilt scored 100, in the future hundreds of thousands will claim to have spent that wonderful Saturday in South Bend watching our Golden Eagles stomp the fighting Irish

My only experience watching basketball at ND was on Valentine’s Day 1990 - the worst bus trip I’ve ever taken. We finally made it there with 3:00 left in the game.
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lawdog77

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2022, 07:50:48 PM »
My only experience watching basketball at ND was on Valentine’s Day 1990 - the worst bus trip I’ve ever taken. We finally made it there with 3:00 left in the game.
Was that the year of the horrifoc snowstorm?

StillAWarrior

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2022, 07:51:41 PM »
Was that the year of the horrifoc snowstorm?

Yep. It was a loooong night.
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lawdog77

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2022, 07:52:46 PM »
Had tickets. Bunch of us saw the weather report and drank at ODs insread.

seakm4

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2022, 08:39:03 PM »
Or Sunday.

Woof.  We were Section 1, row f, Seats 5/6.  Me and the old man were loud and proud.

The darn time zone threw us off.  We showed up at the stadium an hour and fifteen minutes early worried about showing up on time.  I guess I still haven't recovered.

Lennys Tap

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2022, 08:58:40 PM »
Like the hundreds of thousands who seem to have been there when Wilt scored 100, in the future hundreds of thousands will claim to have spent that wonderful Saturday in South Bend watching our Golden Eagles stomp the fighting Irish

IIRC Wilt scored his 100 points in a game played in Hershey, Pa. - the arena couldn’t have held more than 5,000.

Lennys Tap

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2022, 09:19:34 PM »
My only experience watching basketball at ND was on Valentine’s Day 1990 - the worst bus trip I’ve ever taken. We finally made it there with 3:00 left in the game.

My only experience watching basketball at ND was in February of my senior year (1970. We were both ranked in the top 10, maybe even top 5. Drove into South Bend on a Saturday morning with my roommate and two other MU buddies. Game goes to OT, we lead by 2 with the ball and 5 seconds left. We inbound, our receiver gets knocked down, they score at the buzzer to tie it. We lose by one in OT. We had all planned to stay at ND to party (my best high school friend went there), but our driver and his roommate were so pissed they headed back to Milwaukee immediately. My roommate and I stayed, got drunk and hitched back to Milwaukee in bitter cold the following day.

Other than our OT loss to Purdue and Rick Mount in the Elite 8 the previous year it was the most crushing loss of my 4 years at MU.

Scoop Snoop

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2022, 10:33:59 PM »
My only experience watching basketball at ND was in February of my senior year (1970. We were both ranked in the top 10, maybe even top 5. Drove into South Bend on a Saturday morning with my roommate and two other MU buddies. Game goes to OT, we lead by 2 with the ball and 5 seconds left. We inbound, our receiver gets knocked down, they score at the buzzer to tie it. We lose by one in OT. We had all planned to stay at ND to party (my best high school friend went there), but our driver and his roommate were so pissed they headed back to Milwaukee immediately. My roommate and I stayed, got drunk and hitched back to Milwaukee in bitter cold the following day.

Other than our OT loss to Purdue and Rick Mount in the Elite 8 the previous year it was the most crushing loss of my 4 years at MU.

I was at the Elite Eight Purdue game I agree - it was the most crushing loss of my four years at Marquette as well. It stung for days afterwards, didn't it? Soooo close to being in the Final Four!

I'm also class of '70. We should get together sometime. I may be going to the BE Tourney and definitely will be at the Georgetown game.
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Lennys Tap

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2022, 10:05:45 AM »
I was at the Elite Eight Purdue game I agree - it was the most crushing loss of my four years at Marquette as well. It stung for days afterwards, didn't it? Soooo close to being in the Final Four!

I'm also class of '70. We should get together sometime. I may be going to the BE Tourney and definitely will be at the Georgetown game.

Scoop
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PJDunn

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Re: "Neutral"-Site Games
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2022, 10:35:27 AM »
Looks like Brian Wardle is poised to make some noise in Little Rock!!!

 

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