Marquette postpones New Student Convocation due to student demonstration

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

   tamu, i actually applaud the fact that MU had their police there as they should for any event of certain size or potential volatility.  don't know what i said that you interpreted to mean anything contrary.  don't be like hards et.al. and put me on auto argue because, well, there goes rocket again.

You seem to be implying that MU knew there was going to be a protest and called the police in response. That wasn't the case.  If I misinterpreted, I apologize

[MuggsyB]

Not everyone has you as parents Dgies. I'm sure you would agree that you and your wife were instrumental to preparing your children for success in college. Not every college student has that benefit. If you don't have these types of intervention programs, the alternative is that the student fails out, while still owing tens of thousands in student loans with no degree to show for it. That is potentially setting up an already struggling individual for a lifetime of debt and put them in a position where they have to rely on government assistance programs.

IMO, the true value of college is not in the technical knowledge that gets learned in the classroom but rather that it gives young people who (for the most part) have never had to live on their own before and have always had someone else directing their life, a place to learn how to live on their own and be successful while having access to additional supports that don't exist in the real world. Theoretically, college helps take someone who may have no idea how to live on their own and launches them into the working world as a fully (or at least mostly) capable adult.

I'm not sure your theoretical example exists anymore for the majority of 18-22 yr olds.  Also, "Having no idea how to live on your own" is ostensibly ubiquitous for people that have never lived on their own.   No matter where they're from, their race, ethnicity, creed, gender, or height.   Additionally a child brought up in a difficult environment, with neglectful parents, may be more equipped to live on their own at an earlier age than brother dgies was.  I'm  not sold that the purpose of college today is actually to teach kids how to be adults, take care of themselves, or be a panacea for bad parenting. 

[cheebs09]

I would expect a school with a stated goal to attract more first generation college students would have support systems in place. I don’t think MU should be looked down on for providing extra support.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I would expect a school with a stated goal to attract more first generation college students would have support systems in place. I don’t think MU should be looked down on for providing extra support.

Every school is doing this. Recruiting students only to see them leave for whatever reason is nonsensical. Retaining students is way cheaper than recruiting new ones.

[MuggsyB]

Our focus as a country should be on pre K education in our economically disadvantaged areas.  It should be free and the teachers should be well compensated.  We should use our resources to teach kids ages 2-5 in lieu of a lot of wasteful spending.  The national goal should be for kids to read before kindergarten and there's zero reason why they can't.   I've yet to hear a politician on either side propose this and it's basic common sense.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Our focus as a country should be on pre K education in our economically disadvantaged areas.  It should be free and the teachers should be well compensated.  We should use our resources to teach kids ages 2-5 in lieu of a lot of wasteful spending.  The national goal should be for kids to read before kindergarten and there's zero reason why they can't.   I've yet to hear a politician on either side propose this and it's basic common sense.

Cool.

Not sure what that has to do with what we are talking about.

But cool.

[MuggsyB]

Cool.

Not sure what that has to do with what we are talking about.

But cool.

It doesn't and I'm sorry for being  tangential.  But anytime there is a discussion about education this is what I think about.  It makes no sense to me why we don't reevaluate and change our priorities.  It would be enormously successful for our entire society.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'm not sure your theoretical example exists anymore for the majority of 18-22 yr olds.  Also, "Having no idea how to live on your own" is ostensibly ubiquitous for people that have never lived on their own.   No matter where they're from, their race, ethnicity, creed, gender, or height.   Additionally a child brought up in a difficult environment, with neglectful parents, may be more equipped to live on their own at an earlier age than brother dgies was.  I'm  not sold that the purpose of college today is actually to teach kids how to be adults, take care of themselves, or be a panacea for bad parenting.

That's a lot of words to say that you disagree but give no reason for why.

[MuggsyB]

That's a lot of words to say that you disagree but give no reason for why.

I disagree with your basic premise..  The purpose of college (at least historically) is to give students the tools and passion necessary to pursue life-long learning.  I'm not sure this is the case anymore for a myriad of reasons.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I disagree with your basic premise..  The purpose of college (at least historically) is to give students the tools and passion necessary to pursue life-long learning.  I'm not sure this is the case anymore for a myriad of reasons.

That doesn't disagree with what I said, just uses different words to say the same thing

[MuggsyB]

That doesn't disagree with what I said, just uses different words to say the same thing

Okay...maybe I misunderstood you.

[MU82]

Our focus as a country should be on pre K education in our economically disadvantaged areas.  It should be free and the teachers should be well compensated.  We should use our resources to teach kids ages 2-5 in lieu of a lot of wasteful spending.  The national goal should be for kids to read before kindergarten and there's zero reason why they can't.   I've yet to hear a politician on either side propose this and it's basic common sense.

Lots of politicians have proposed free Pre-K and it has been passed in a lot of areas -- including the county where I live, NC's largest. Except for the "well compensated teacher" part. Hopefully that's coming.

[MuggsyB]

Lots of politicians have proposed free Pre-K and it has been passed in a lot of areas -- including the county where I live, NC's largest. Except for the "well compensated teacher" part. Hopefully that's coming.

Kids need to be taught how to read pre- kindergarten.  That should be a national goal that both major political parties should agree to immediately. 

[MU82]

Kids need to be taught how to read pre- kindergarten.  That should be a national goal that both major political parties should agree to immediately.

Yessir. Sounds like a good platform for you to run on, Muggs!

[MuggsyB]

Yessir. Sounds like a good platform for you to run on, Muggs!

.
I'm not cut out to be a politician and would get frustrated dealing with most of them. 

[lawdog77]

Kids need to be taught how to read pre- kindergarten.  That should be a national goal that both major political parties should agree to immediately.

At what age should dolphins learn to read?

[Hards Alumni]

i think you and reeko need to get a room

Only if you'll watch

[Uncle Rico]

Kids need to be taught how to read pre- kindergarten.  That should be a national goal that both major political parties should agree to immediately.

Disagree 100%.  Last thing we need to do is teach kids to read.  The problem with this country is educated people.  Plus, if they learn how to read, they might learn CRT or read “To Kill a Mockingbird”.  The damage would be catastrophic.  Show them pictures of Noah’s Ark and teach them how to handle a weapon and they’ll be fine.

[dgies9156]

Well, here goes this "freakin boomer" again!

TAMU, I want people to succeed in college, probably as much as you do. I've given to colleges over the years so people who didn't have some of the benefits I did and my children did have the opportunity to try to be what I became because of Marquette. That's how we push out of poverty.

That said, we selected Southern Illinois University for my children because both had learning disabilities and SIU has a program called Achieve, which works with LD students to get them through college. Achieve was somewhat expensive but we paid the bill because we needed to. In the years since, we have donated substantially so that disadvantaged students could have what our children had. We quietly and kinda privately put one student who needed Achieve through it because they would have flunked out of SIU otherwise.

As a side note -- if anyone needs LD support for their college aged student, I'd strongly recommend Achieve at SIU. It's an unbelievably good program and the folks there really care!

I don't question the need for some specialty programs like Achieve, or SIU's MAPP program for disadvantaged potential college students. But a widespread program aimed at the bulk of the student body just raises a boatload of questions about how ready students are to live on their own. I get the temptations are out there -- booze, drugs, sex etc -- but these challenges will be out there when these students leave college. If they're not ready to live on their own, maybe they need to attend college locally where they can live at home. Or maybe they need to work a year... or go to a community college! With one exception, the last person I'd want intervening in my life in college was my resident advisor!

There's a lot of things about living far from home in an alien environment that are disconcerting. But that's going to be true whether it's college, your first job, getting married or joining the military. As Dan Hampton would sday, "time to put the big boy (or girl) pants on.

A final thought: maybe many of us "freakin boomers" created the problem by being helicopter parents. My wife and I were frequently criticized for not being helicopter parents -- by letting our children "do their thing," so to speak. We gave them just enough rope to hang themselves but knew we could cut the rope before they actually did!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If they're not ready to live on their own, maybe they need to attend college locally where they can live at home. Or maybe they need to work a year... or go to a community college!

This is the disconnect right here. I don't disagree that maybe it would have been better for some students do something other than college right after high school. The problem is, by the time they've gotten to college they've already made their decision, and it's a costly one. One semester at a school like Marquette likely means 5 figures of student debt. So rather than Marquette washing their hands of them and saying "thanks for the 40 grand", why not offer a few supports/interventions to try to help them persist to graduation? They may still fail and some may still choose to go elsewhere but these programs have been shown to help. I think given the choice between taking $40 grand from an 18 year old and wishing them luck and having a quick conversation with a student who has been missing a few too many classes, option B is the more Jesuit thing to do.

[MU82]

Disagree 100%.  Last thing we need to do is teach kids to read.  The problem with this country is educated people.  Plus, if they learn how to read, they might learn CRT or read “To Kill a Mockingbird”.  The damage would be catastrophic.  Show them pictures of Noah’s Ark and teach them how to handle a weapon and they’ll be fine.

Exactly. Until we reach the very worthwhile goal of banning 1 billion books a year, real Americans have no chance against the woke mobs. The only thing kids need to know how to read is the bible, and even there only the non-sexy parts.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I don't question the need for some specialty programs like Achieve, or SIU's MAPP program for disadvantaged potential college students. But a widespread program aimed at the bulk of the student body just raises a boatload of questions about how ready students are to live on their own. I get the temptations are out there -- booze, drugs, sex etc -- but these challenges will be out there when these students leave college. If they're not ready to live on their own, maybe they need to attend college locally where they can live at home. Or maybe they need to work a year... or go to a community college! With one exception, the last person I'd want intervening in my life in college was my resident advisor!

The mistake you are making is that you think I am talking about a program like Achieve.  I am talking about a computer system that tracks things to see who might need an early intervention by our academic support office...or an RA...or the advisor of their student group.  That's not a "program."

[Macallan 18]

University forces convocation demonstrators to step down from leadership positions

Students leaders who participated in a demonstration at Marquette’s new student convocation Aug. 25 will be forced to step down from their leadership positions, the Marquette Wire has confirmed. At the convocation, demonstrators called for more support for students of color on campus, citing staffing and resource deficits.

https://marquettewire.org/4083205/news/breaking-university-forces-convocation-demonstrators-to-step-down-from-leadership-positions/


An article in the Marquette Tribune earlier this week included reaction to the $300 student fines and the disciplinary process.

https://marquettewire.org/4082393/news/mu-community-walks-in-support-of-sanctioned-students/

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

While true, my guess is the title is a little misleading. A pretty standard sanction for a rule violation like this is something along the lines of "probation" or "discipline review" (every school as their own language). A pretty standard part of probation at all universities is that students on probation can't hold leadership positions in recognized student organizations. So, yes it is true that the students will be stepping down from their leadership positions, but that would have been the result for any student found responsible for this rule violation whether they were in high profile positions like this, or if they were the treasurer of the tiddlywinks club.