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Author Topic: Porky's Baaaaack!  (Read 1502 times)

PorkysButthole

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Porky's Baaaaack!
« on: October 11, 2022, 11:20:31 AM »
While browsing the Marquette Wire earlier this morning, Porky stumbled upon this opinion piece.  As both a native northeasterner and MU Alum, this piece particularly resonated with Porky.  Apparently not much has changed in the 30 some odd years since Porky's day....

https://marquettewire.org/4083166/opinion/dysart-marquette-must-geographically-diversify/







cheebs09

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2022, 11:43:50 AM »
This may start to get up there with the football/nickname topics.

dgies9156

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2022, 12:21:55 PM »
Brother Pork:

I kind of agree with the author. Like him, I came from another part of the United States -- the south -- but I had longstanding Wisconsin and Midwestern ties. I saw the same things in Milwaukee when I was there that the author did. It was a whole new world to explore.

The problem with geographic diversification is twofold. First, you play to your strengths. Marquette is best known in Wisconsin and Illinois. That's from where MU's students historically have come. Plus, MU is a Roman Catholic institution and it plays well in Midwestern and Northeastern Catholic High Schools. MU probably has a much tougher time recruiting a protestant in Birmingham, AL than you do a Catholic in Schaumburg.

Second, unless a student attends one of 20-or-so truly elite national universities, the student will inevitably find a job close to where a university is located. Want a job in Illinois or Wisconsin? Go to Marquette. Want a job in Florida? Try the University of Florida, Miami or Florida State, not to mention the Florida directionals. The reason geography plays a role in hiring is that's where the alumni tend to congregate. There just isn't a proportionately higher base of alumni in Florida for example. There are, of course, exceptions. My Dad was an MU grad and he was an MU hiring machine in his Nashville office.

One final thought: If we want to expand the geographic diversity of our student body, we should push our basketball team to true greatness. There is no better way to get folks to look at Marquette than to have a final four or National Championship team.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2022, 01:02:21 PM »
great to have ya back pork!!  i always enjoy your stuff! 
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MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2022, 04:07:27 PM »
While browsing the Marquette Wire earlier this morning, Porky stumbled upon this opinion piece.  As both a native northeasterner and MU Alum, this piece particularly resonated with Porky.  Apparently not much has changed in the 30 some odd years since Porky's day....

https://marquettewire.org/4083166/opinion/dysart-marquette-must-geographically-diversify/

That's a good read. 
I wish there were a few more New England students at Marquette. 

As a Connecticut kid I knew several other Connecticut students including my brother who followed me to MU.  I did have 2 friends from Rhode Island (I still occasionally talk to one) and knew sisters from Vermont.  I think I even remember a kid from Maine in my class of '91. 

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2022, 04:11:32 PM »
"I recognize that it can be expensive for students to pay out-of-state tuition as well as fly back and forth between the city of Milwaukee and cities in the Northeast..."

Is he under the impression that students pay in-state tuition at private schools out east???
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PorkysButthole

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2022, 04:47:56 PM »
Brother Pork:

I kind of agree with the author. Like him, I came from another part of the United States -- the south -- but I had longstanding Wisconsin and Midwestern ties. I saw the same things in Milwaukee when I was there that the author did. It was a whole new world to explore.

The problem with geographic diversification is twofold. First, you play to your strengths. Marquette is best known in Wisconsin and Illinois. That's from where MU's students historically have come. Plus, MU is a Roman Catholic institution and it plays well in Midwestern and Northeastern Catholic High Schools. MU probably has a much tougher time recruiting a protestant in Birmingham, AL than you do a Catholic in Schaumburg.

Second, unless a student attends one of 20-or-so truly elite national universities, the student will inevitably find a job close to where a university is located. Want a job in Illinois or Wisconsin? Go to Marquette. Want a job in Florida? Try the University of Florida, Miami or Florida State, not to mention the Florida directionals. The reason geography plays a role in hiring is that's where the alumni tend to congregate. There just isn't a proportionately higher base of alumni in Florida for example. There are, of course, exceptions. My Dad was an MU grad and he was an MU hiring machine in his Nashville office.

One final thought: If we want to expand the geographic diversity of our student body, we should push our basketball team to true greatness. There is no better way to get folks to look at Marquette than to have a final four or National Championship team.

Porky used to also think having a consistently great hoops team would make a dent on geographic diversity but despite the Final Four in 2003, the great success of the Buzz Williams era that followed and the establishment of not only relevant, but very competitive men's and women's D1 Lacrosse programs in extremely short order, MU's east coast numbers in particular have barely budged, except perhaps on the LAX rosters.  Porky can't speak to the figures from other non-traditional areas, but despite all that, MU's WI/IL population has remained at least 70% throughout.  One of the main reasons MU started a D1 LAX program in the first place was because they felt they were under-performing in recruiting undergrad students from the Northeast, and the hope was starting a LAX program would pay dividends on overall recruitment of students from that region.  That was the main argument Deputy Athletic Director Mike Broeker pitched to Fr. Pilarz and the BOT at the time, the brainchild behind starting a LAX program at MU.  It's not a coincidence that both Broeker and the late Fr. Pilarz are Northeasterners themselves.  No doubt the LAX program has been a huge success.  It just hasn't moved the needle on geographic diversity unfortunately.   Porky is stumped as to why not.  :(
« Last Edit: October 11, 2022, 05:38:03 PM by PorkysButthole »

Lennys Tap

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2022, 04:55:31 PM »
Welcome back, Porky. I make it a point to always read your posts - they’re generally among my favorites.

I was lucky at MU to have friends from NY, Connecticut and New Jersey but I understand and agree with the author.

PorkysButthole

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2022, 05:12:28 PM »
"I recognize that it can be expensive for students to pay out-of-state tuition as well as fly back and forth between the city of Milwaukee and cities in the Northeast..."

Is he under the impression that students pay in-state tuition at private schools out east???

Porky isn't sure what he meant by that either but here's an attempt at an interpretation.  In the Northeast, it is extremely common for students to matriculate to state flagships in the Midwest and the South.   50% of Big 10 and SEC schools are as popular, if not more popular than most Northeastern state flagships, despite the burden of out of state tuition.   This has always been the case with the Midwest schools and increasingly in the last 10 years southern state flagships as well.  This is primarily due to lifestyle and has nothing to do with Academics.   No disrespect to UCONN, UMASS or Rutgers, who no one denies are all solid academically but from a student experience standpoint those places simply can't compete with places like UW Madison, Michigan, Indiana, Miami Ohio, Clemson, U of South Carolina, and so forth.   Being from metro Boston, the author knows this all too well so perhaps what he was trying to say is if so many students from the Northeast are attending these schools despite out of state tuition, why can't Marquette be in that same consideration set?  If that interpretation is correct, Porky concurs 100%.    Not sure if that's what he meant but that is Porky's best guess.  Porky is curious to know what other Northeast Scoopers' POV is on this.

MuggsyB

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2022, 06:16:21 PM »
Welcome back Porky!

rocket surgeon

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2022, 08:30:42 PM »
coming to MU right after the BIG DANCE,  i don't know who started it, but we were being referred to as the eastern school of the midwest.  my guess is because Al recruited a lot of kids from out east who didn't have grass in their front yards.  i just assumed this because i thought that was kinda cool and i did have a number of friends from ba-stun, maryland, new yawk, etc.  and if ya don't believe me ya'll a bunch of cack sackers ;D
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Judge Smails

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2022, 10:27:43 PM »
Welcome back Porky. Hope you had a good summer. I’d like to see MU have greater geographic diversity as well. But is it a realistic goal?  Elite private schools like Stanford, Duke, ND, etc. have geographic diversity, not places like MU, Creighton, and Xavier.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2022, 05:40:55 AM »
Welcome back Porky. Hope you had a good summer. I’d like to see MU have greater geographic diversity as well. But is it a realistic goal?  Elite private schools like Stanford, Duke, ND, etc. have geographic diversity, not places like MU, Creighton, and Xavier.

Xavier gets a fair amount of northeast students.  There were 29 Connecticut students in my daughter's Freshman class and double from Massachusetts.  (Marquette had about 10.)  XU gets some from Vermont too.  There was a parent from Vermont on the Parents Facebook page who made Xavier logo purses, blankets and other items that other parents would fit their kids.  My kid knows students from Long Island and New Jersey.

pbiflyer

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2022, 03:01:58 PM »
Brother Pork:

I kind of agree with the author. Like him, I came from another part of the United States -- the south -- but I had longstanding Wisconsin and Midwestern ties. I saw the same things in Milwaukee when I was there that the author did. It was a whole new world to explore.

The problem with geographic diversification is twofold. First, you play to your strengths. Marquette is best known in Wisconsin and Illinois. That's from where MU's students historically have come. Plus, MU is a Roman Catholic institution and it plays well in Midwestern and Northeastern Catholic High Schools. MU probably has a much tougher time recruiting a protestant in Birmingham, AL than you do a Catholic in Schaumburg.

Second, unless a student attends one of 20-or-so truly elite national universities, the student will inevitably find a job close to where a university is located. Want a job in Illinois or Wisconsin? Go to Marquette. Want a job in Florida? Try the University of Florida, Miami or Florida State, not to mention the Florida directionals. The reason geography plays a role in hiring is that's where the alumni tend to congregate. There just isn't a proportionately higher base of alumni in Florida for example. There are, of course, exceptions. My Dad was an MU grad and he was an MU hiring machine in his Nashville office.

One final thought:If we want to expand the geographic diversity of our student body, we should push our basketball team to true greatness. There is no better way to get folks to look at Marquette than to have a final four or National Championship team.

Damn, NOW you tell me. I went to Marquette but got not one, but two jobs in Florida. And offers in Mass, WI, and TX. Subsequent jobs in NC, CA, and HI seemed to be easy to find despite going to a Midwest school with a middling basketball team.   ;D
But, seriously, I was in the in the growing IT field, so a bit different.  I had friends that are lawyers and they said if you want to work in a good Florida law firm, you better graduate from UF unless you graduate from an IVY law school.  So yeah, in a lot of fields that still holds true.
But I wonder now with the digital age of hiring and even remote work, if it is still as true in many fields. No idea, but could see it being less important as to the location of your school to your first job.

dgies9156

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2022, 03:54:56 PM »
Damn, NOW you tell me. I went to Marquette but got not one, but two jobs in Florida. And offers in Mass, WI, and TX. Subsequent jobs in NC, CA, and HI seemed to be easy to find despite going to a Midwest school with a middling basketball team.   ;D
But, seriously, I was in the in the growing IT field, so a bit different.

I had friends that are lawyers and they said if you want to work in a good Florida law firm, you better graduate from UF unless you graduate from an IVY law school.  So yeah, in a lot of fields that still holds true.

But I wonder now with the digital age of hiring and even remote work, if it is still as true in many fields. No idea, but could see it being less important as to the location of your school to your first job.

Two points: The issue in Florida is that the Florida Bar is protective of Florida lawyers. I've had friends who moved here from Illinois who took the bar after practicing law in Chicago for decades and couldn't believe the test. My understand is UF, Miami and Florida-based accredited law schools get automatic entry.

Secondly, I still believe we hire our own. You'll find a boatload of Marquette grads in the Chicago/Milwaukee/Green Bay corridor. They're spread out over Wisconsin as well. You come to me with a Marquette degree and I'll probably pay more attention than if you had a degree from, say, Colorado University or Nebraska. And I'm not sure how long the remote trend is going to last. At some point, people need to work together.

Brother Pork:

I still believe if we were competitive for a Natty on a consistent basis, more people nationally would look at us. The understanding would be if the university is THAT good in basketball, it ought to be THAT good in a lot of other things as well!

RJax55

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2022, 04:25:00 PM »
Two points: The issue in Florida is that the Florida Bar is protective of Florida lawyers. I've had friends who moved here from Illinois who took the bar after practicing law in Chicago for decades and couldn't believe the test. My understand is UF, Miami and Florida-based accredited law schools get automatic entry.

Not true. Even if you graduate from a Florida based law school, you still need to pass the Florida bar to practice in the state. It's funny, as Wisconsin is one of the few states where this is actually true.
 
Florida does not offer bar reciprocity, so that's somewhat true of protecting Florida attorneys. Given the influx of seasonal residents, it's a valid concern for the bar.

About the topic on-hand, MU would be better off focusing on the Sun Belt regions. These are the growing areas of the country. The Northeast is loaded with schools that are extremely similar to MU. Tough sell.

Scoop Snoop

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2022, 05:28:34 PM »
So in addition to Florida law school grads...one of my nieces is a vet and she once told me that unless you go to vet school in Florida, pretty much no way will you be able to practice there.
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dgies9156

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2022, 10:43:36 AM »
About the topic on-hand, MU would be better off focusing on the Sun Belt regions. These are the growing areas of the country. The Northeast is loaded with schools that are extremely similar to MU. Tough sell.

Very tough to do. Marquette's market has been Roman Catholic High Schools in the Midwest and Northeast. Perhaps things have changed but there are comparatively few Catholic High Schools and a far smaller proportionate number of practicing Catholics in the Southeast than about anywhere else in the country.

As much as I love Marquette, I don't see the attractiveness of a good private Roman Catholic university in Milwaukee, WI to a fallen away Catholic or non-practicing Protestant living outside Atlanta, GA, Birmingham, AL or Charlotte, NC. That's the market and those folks would go to the University of North Carolina, a rejuvenated University of Tennessee, Florida, Georgia or Alabama. Heck, Alabama was marketing to students in my children's high school class in Illinois.

My high school in Nashville tended to graduate between 210 and 250 students a year. If Marquette was lucky, four applied and one or two actually went there. Most of those people had some ties to Illinois or Wisconsin.

PorkysButthole

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2022, 07:41:36 PM »
Very tough to do. Marquette's market has been Roman Catholic High Schools in the Midwest and Northeast. Perhaps things have changed but there are comparatively few Catholic High Schools and a far smaller proportionate number of practicing Catholics in the Southeast than about anywhere else in the country.

And therein lies the problem!  As far as MU is concerned public high schools in the Northeast may as well not exist.   What they don't realize is that in the Northeast, with the exception of the inner-cities of its major cities, public schools are extraordinarily strong, and in the majority of suburban areas, stronger academically than their catholic counterparts by a noticable margin.  Porky's guess is that's definitely not the case in the country at large, but as other Northeasterners can attest to, that is absolutely the case here.

By only focusing on Catholic high schools here, MU is only marketing to 10% of the available pool of high school students in the region, and that's being generous.  It's probably less than 10%.  To be sure, Catholic high school attendance is stronger in the inner cities, but many are struggling in the suburbs, so MU's approach doesn't make much sense.

The idea that there are too many schools just like MU in the Northeast may be true but isn't all that relevant because a substantial number of students here still choose to attend college in completely different regions of the country.   For those that say, yes but those are only the best of the best attending Top 25 National Universities Porky can assure everyone that is absolutely not the case.   As others have mentioned on here before and Porky concurs, Miami of Ohio in particular is extremely popular with students in the greater NYC metro area.   Why???   Porky has no effing idea since it's ranked lower than MU and their out of state tuition is just south of $40K. Granted that's still slightly less than MU but not significantly.  Porky can think of 10-15 other Midwest institutions (mostly public but some private) that are also significantly more popular than MU in the Northeast, but lower ranked and have comparable tuition.   MU either doesn't understand this, or doesn't care.   Most likely the latter.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2022, 08:48:03 PM »
It’s simple. Marquette has come to the conclusion that it’s not worth the time and money to recruit those kids, and those resources are best targeted elsewhere.
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pbiflyer

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2022, 09:23:43 PM »
Just a location aside. Was watching the UCF “space “ game where they celebrate their origins as a technical feeder to NASA. Evidently 30% of the Kennedy Space Center staff graduated from UCF. Go Citronauts! (Their original nickname)

Disco Hippie

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Re: Porky's Baaaaack!
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2022, 09:31:24 AM »
My high school in Nashville tended to graduate between 210 and 250 students a year. If Marquette was lucky, four applied and one or two actually went there. Most of those people had some ties to Illinois or Wisconsin.

Fellow Northeasterner.   Great thread.  I can definitely relate to this op-ed.   This actually seems like pretty decent performance dgies!  I wouldn't expect MU to do much better than that in TN.   I'd be thrilled if MU had 4 applicants a year from my high school alma mater in southern CT but it's more like 1 applicant every 5 years and maybe one attends once a decade.  I graduated from my high school in the late 80's and since then only 2 other people from my high school have matriculated to Marquette since me.   I know this because they keep matriculation records going back the early 80's.   The number that have matriculated to UW Madison since then is almost 150.