2020 Census Numbers

[MuggsyB]

Apparently 14 states significantly under or over counted.  I don't know where this ranks historically but it's clearly a problem.  There have already been State L elections.  WTH is going on?   

[brewcity77]

Apparently 14 states significantly under or over counted.  I don't know where this ranks historically but it's clearly a problem.  There have already been State L elections.  WTH is going on?

They probably shouldn't have rushed the count and cut the census budget in the middle of a global pandemic.

[MuggsyB]

They probably shouldn't have rushed the count and cut the census budget in the middle of a global pandemic.

Have you seen how far off some of these states were?  That can't happen.  Totally inexcusable and we should all be outraged.

[Jockey]

it was intentional.

[MuggsyB]

it was intentional.

The vast majority of the states are not swing states and both red and blue.  Why on earth for example would Delaware and Hawaii have counts that are so far off?

[Jockey]

The vast majority of the states are not swing states and both red and blue.  Why on earth for example would Delaware and Hawaii have counts that are so far off?

There are many reasons. As Brew said, funding was cut.

Also, an estimated 60 million American households had yet to be counted when the administration decided that it would slash a full month from the typical 2+ months allotted to follow up with households that didn’t respond. It also shortened the period that follows where they check the information for accuracy and remove duplicates. That process normally takes five months; it was cut to three.

Finally, the administration's attempt to put a citizenship question on the form caused many people to refuse to respond.

It is always a challenge to get an accurate count of poor, minorities, and native Americans. A lack of funds just made it worse than usual.

[brewcity77]

Have you seen how far off some of these states were?  That can't happen.  Totally inexcusable and we should all be outraged.

Like jockey said, this was all deliberate. I'm more surprised that anyone if surprised than that this was a massive screwup. That part wasn't just predictable, it was the planned outcome.

[MuggsyB]

Like jockey said, this was all deliberate. I'm more surprised that anyone if surprised than that this was a massive screwup. That part wasn't just predictable, it was the planned outcome.

Or maybe census takers were scared of people eating their livers with fava beans?  None of this makes much sense to me as far as it being deliberate.

[MU82]

None of this makes much sense to me as far as it being deliberate.

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/15/1073338121/2020-census-interference-trump

[Hards Alumni]

Or maybe census takers were scared of people eating their livers with fava beans?  None of this makes much sense to me as far as it being deliberate.

Yeah, well it was.  Widely publicized.

[mu_hilltopper]

Undercount I understand .. has anyone read how overcounts occur?   Massive duplicates being let through?

[dgies9156]

Let me give a micro example of what is a small part of the problem.

My wife and I own a home in suburban Chicago and in Florida. We are legal residents of the Sunshine state and were in our home in Florida on April 1, 2020. When we filled out our census form, we filled it out in Florida. We also indicated on the census form that we owned a home in Illinois and that no one was in the home on April 1, census day.

Subsequently, we received three notices from the census bureau wanting to know why we had not filled out a form for our Illinois home. Each time we again explained to the Census Bureau why there was no one in the home. That wasn't good enough, so at least three census takers came to the house looking to credit us for our home in Illinois. Only God knows whether we were "estimated" into our Illinois home.

Census stakes are high. Others have noted the political implications of population differences. But federal largess is, in part based on population and on income and economic data gleaned from the census. Getting it right may make the difference between sending funds to Illinois, or say, Montana.

Ultimately, I don't think it's a matter of money or time. It's bureaucratic competency. You'd think that for an exercise that happens once every 10 years, the Department of Commerce would get it right -- Covid or no Covid. Our government is full of hangers-oners whose self-importance is recognized only by the person in the mirror. Incompetence reigns supreme in an environment where risk is rewarded with bureaucratic demerits.

[Hards Alumni]

Let me give a micro example of what is a small part of the problem.

My wife and I own a home in suburban Chicago and in Florida. We are legal residents of the Sunshine state and were in our home in Florida on April 1, 2020. When we filled out our census form, we filled it out in Florida. We also indicated on the census form that we owned a home in Illinois and that no one was in the home on April 1, census day.

Subsequently, we received three notices from the census bureau wanting to know why we had not filled out a form for our Illinois home. Each time we again explained to the Census Bureau why there was no one in the home. That wasn't good enough, so at least three census takers came to the house looking to credit us for our home in Illinois. Only God knows whether we were "estimated" into our Illinois home.

Census stakes are high. Others have noted the political implications of population differences. But federal largess is, in part based on population and on income and economic data gleaned from the census. Getting it right may make the difference between sending funds to Illinois, or say, Montana.

Ultimately, I don't think it's a matter of money or time. It's bureaucratic competency. You'd think that for an exercise that happens once every 10 years, the Department of Commerce would get it right -- Covid or no Covid. Our government is full of hangers-oners whose self-importance is recognized only by the person in the mirror. Incompetence reigns supreme in an environment where risk is rewarded with bureaucratic demerits.

Once every 10 years pretty much guarantees that no one from the previous census is around for the next one.  Also, technology chances so quickly now, as well as culture.  I have almost zero desire to answer my door unless I know the person on the other side.  Because they're usually selling something that I am not interested in... so why even bother?  Now imagine if I had any sort of criminal background or had immigrated to the US.  Staying away from authority and keeping your head down is immigrant 101.

[dgies9156]

Once every 10 years pretty much guarantees that no one from the previous census is around for the next one.  Also, technology chances so quickly now, as well as culture.  I have almost zero desire to answer my door unless I know the person on the other side.  Because they're usually selling something that I am not interested in... so why even bother?  Now imagine if I had any sort of criminal background or had immigrated to the US.  Staying away from authority and keeping your head down is immigrant 101.

Brother Hards:

I get part of what you're saying. The Political leadership almost certainly changes and there is change-over across a decade. But the careerists are still there and they change over two or three censuses.

Until the Bureaucracy is rewarded for taking risk, there won't be any and we will mush through the process.

[MUBurrow]

Ultimately, I don't think it's a matter of money or time. It's bureaucratic competency. You'd think that for an exercise that happens once every 10 years, the Department of Commerce would get it right -- Covid or no Covid. Our government is full of hangers-oners whose self-importance is recognized only by the person in the mirror. Incompetence reigns supreme in an environment where risk is rewarded with bureaucratic demerits.

We have this strange mania in this country where every time a vital governmental service underperforms, we attribute it to the attitude of the public sector employee, cut their funding, and thereby guarantee the same or worse results next time.

The real reason the Roman empire fell was because they lost the ability to collect taxes. We're careening toward a similar fate.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

They probably shouldn't have rushed the count and cut the census budget in the middle of a global pandemic.

More genius from TFG.

[MuggsyB]

Let me give a micro example of what is a small part of the problem.

My wife and I own a home in suburban Chicago and in Florida. We are legal residents of the Sunshine state and were in our home in Florida on April 1, 2020. When we filled out our census form, we filled it out in Florida. We also indicated on the census form that we owned a home in Illinois and that no one was in the home on April 1, census day.

Subsequently, we received three notices from the census bureau wanting to know why we had not filled out a form for our Illinois home. Each time we again explained to the Census Bureau why there was no one in the home. That wasn't good enough, so at least three census takers came to the house looking to credit us for our home in Illinois. Only God knows whether we were "estimated" into our Illinois home.

Census stakes are high. Others have noted the political implications of population differences. But federal largess is, in part based on population and on income and economic data gleaned from the census. Getting it right may make the difference between sending funds to Illinois, or say, Montana.

Ultimately, I don't think it's a matter of money or time. It's bureaucratic competency. You'd think that for an exercise that happens once every 10 years, the Department of Commerce would get it right -- Covid or no Covid. Our government is full of hangers-oners whose self-importance is recognized only by the person in the mirror. Incompetence reigns supreme in an environment where risk is rewarded with bureaucratic demerits.

Ty brother dgies.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Ultimately, I don't think it's a matter of money or time. It's bureaucratic competency. You'd think that for an exercise that happens once every 10 years, the Department of Commerce would get it right -- Covid or no Covid. Our government is full of hangers-oners whose self-importance is recognized only by the person in the mirror. Incompetence reigns supreme in an environment where risk is rewarded with bureaucratic demerits.

Perhaps, but that was not what happened this time around. Read the stories; it was intentional.

[brewcity77]

Or maybe census takers were scared of people eating their livers with fava beans?  None of this makes much sense to me as far as it being deliberate.

No, it was talked about constantly during the process. It was underfunded, rushed, and the process was constantly muddied publicly. It seems wild that anyone would be griping about this now instead of 2 years ago when people were screaming about how it was being deliberately botched by the people at the top.

[dgies9156]

We have this strange mania in this country where every time a vital governmental service underperforms, we attribute it to the attitude of the public sector employee, cut their funding, and thereby guarantee the same or worse results next time.

The real reason the Roman empire fell was because they lost the ability to collect taxes. We're careening toward a similar fate.

Brother Burrow:

It's not just the attitude. It's the culture of entitlement. It's about as easy to fire a federal (or Illinois state) employee as it is to balance the federal budget, drive an eight-lane highway through a mountain or clean-up after a Florida hurricane. All are possible but the hassle of changing the culture is not worth it to most professionals.

Secondly, I don't have any figures, but I'd go back to 1970 and I'll betcha the biggest growth industry in most parts of this country is government. Even if you put the number of employees over the change in population for a per capital number (or an inflation adjusted level of compensation), the numbers probably would bear me out.

Or, maybe I lived in Illinois too long!

We need government. We need regulation and enforcement. We need outcomes favorable to the American people, which means we need a level of competency we do not have today. The census bears that out.

[MuggsyB]

Perhaps, but that was not what happened this time around. Read the stories; it was intentional.

Will a "Ministry of Truth" solve this issue?

[Pakuni]

Brother Burrow:

It's not just the attitude. It's the culture of entitlement. It's about as easy to fire a federal (or Illinois state) employee as it is to balance the federal budget, drive an eight-lane highway through a mountain or clean-up after a Florida hurricane. All are possible but the hassle of changing the culture is not worth it to most professionals.

Secondly, I don't have any figures, but I'd go back to 1970 and I'll betcha the biggest growth industry in most parts of this country is government. Even if you put the number of employees over the change in population for a per capital number (or an inflation adjusted level of compensation), the numbers probably would bear me out.

Or, maybe I lived in Illinois too long!

We need government. We need regulation and enforcement. We need outcomes favorable to the American people, which means we need a level of competency we do not have today. The census bears that out.

Brother dgies ... public sector employment has declined over the past 15 years.
Perhaps the problem isn't those lazy entitled government workers, but the fact there are fewer of them being asked to do more work.

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2019/10/effects-of-economic-downturn-private-and-public-employment.html

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Will a "Ministry of Truth" solve this issue?

No, but reading actual articles about what happened might make you more informed

[dgies9156]

Brother dgies ... public sector employment has declined over the past 15 years.
Perhaps the problem isn't those lazy entitled government workers, but the fact there are fewer of them being asked to do more work.

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2019/10/effects-of-economic-downturn-private-and-public-employment.html

Brother Pakuni:

Please re-read my posts. I never accused government employees of being lazy.

I did say they felt entitled and I did note that they didn't seem to know what on earth they were doing.

That, my brother, is not lazy. It's either incompetence or stupidity!

[Pakuni]

Brother Pakuni:

Please re-read my posts. I never accused government employees of being lazy.

I did say they felt entitled and I did note that they didn't seem to know what on earth they were doing.

That, my brother, is not lazy. It's either incompetence or stupidity!

I'm disappointed that you feel our troops, police officers and first responders are stupid and entitled.

[BrewCity83]

I'm disappointed that you feel our troops, police officers and first responders are stupid and entitled.

Nice job trying to twist his comment.  That's not who he was referring to and you know it. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Nice job trying to twist his comment.  That's not who he was referring to and you know it. 

Oh. So I guess painting with a broad brush is only OK in certain circumstances. Gotcha.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Nice job trying to twist his comment.  That's not who he was referring to and you know it.

Please tell me who he is referring to so I know who to have contempt for.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Brother Pakuni:

Please re-read my posts. I never accused government employees of being lazy.

I did say they felt entitled and I did note that they didn't seem to know what on earth they were doing.

That, my brother, is not lazy. It's either incompetence or stupidity!

Glad to know that I'm entitled as well as stupid or incompetent.  I'll be sure to tell that to my colleagues who regularly put in 60 to 80 hour work weeks despite no overtime an peanuts for salaries. I mean one of them is incompetent but I think every office,  private or public,  has at least one

[Jockey]

Glad to know that I'm entitled as well as stupid or incompetent.

Are you and 4ever brothers?   

[Pakuni]

Nice job trying to twist his comment.  That's not who he was referring to and you know it.

Who's he talking about, then?
Librarians? Nurses? Forest rangers?

Or maybe the real incompetence here is trading in lazy stereotypes to insult millions of people.

[tower912]

I am a lazy, incompetent civil servant.   I take no umbrage.