[Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things

[NCMUFan]

NASCAR meets CBB?

[Newsdreams]

...I know NIL doesn't come from the school but it still could pay for tuition. I'll concede that most college athletes don't get 100% free rides either and use their athletic scholarships to get an education, yet an NIL could help these students as well by paying for school costs through a sponsor not covered by the partial scholarship. MU mens basketball is in that 1% and if the school does not have to offer a player a full scholarship that money can be used to generate revenue to fund other scholarships as well. When I asked why offer scholarships it was in reference to MU basketball players and I know MU has good graduation track record thus far, but only 21% of NBA players have their degree and these are the players we are talking about and the HS and College players know this.

I'm not saying don't offer scholarships all I'm saying is that you don't have to and it could benefit everyone.

https://idswater.com/2020/02/02/what-percentage-of-the-nba-has-a-college-degree/

Wrong, athletic scholarship don't work that way. Can't just reallocate the donations. What does NBA players & college degrees have to do with this? You're stuck on a PR campaign NCAA has been doing for years because they didn't want athletes to be able to earn $ for working for the universities. Between games and practices they probably work more hours than an average employee works.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

...I know NIL doesn't come from the school but it still could pay for tuition. I'll concede that most college athletes don't get 100% free rides either and use their athletic scholarships to get an education, yet an NIL could help these students as well by paying for school costs through a sponsor not covered by the partial scholarship. MU mens basketball is in that 1% and if the school does not have to offer a player a full scholarship that money can be used to generate revenue to fund other scholarships as well. When I asked why offer scholarships it was in reference to MU basketball players and I know MU has good graduation track record thus far, but only 21% of NBA players have their degree and these are the players we are talking about and the HS and College players know this.

I'm not saying don't offer scholarships all I'm saying is that you don't have to and it could benefit everyone.

https://idswater.com/2020/02/02/what-percentage-of-the-nba-has-a-college-degree/

69, I don't give a rat's rump what% of NBA players have a college degree. That's irrelevant to this conversation.

Again, NIL money doesn't come from the school. So what you are advocating for is that basketball players play basketball for the university without getting anything in return from the university other than the opportunity to play basketball. It's the equivalent of saying professional basketball players shouldn't make a salary because they get endorsement deals anyway.

Athletic Scholarship = "Salary" paid from the university to the player in exchange of playing basketball for the university (and making the university $$$

NIL Money = Endorsement deals that players earn on the side. That is their own separate income.

And for the 4th time, no you cannot take the money from athletic scholarships and turn them into scholarships for other students. Athletic scholarships have zero negative impact on scholarship opportunities for other students. In fact, they generate a ton of revenue for the university which can then be used to create additional scholarship opportunities for other students

[muwarrior69]

Wrong, athletic scholarship don't work that way. Can't just reallocate the donations. What does NBA players & college degrees have to do with this? You're stuck on a PR campaign NCAA has been doing for years because they didn't want athletes to be able to earn $ for working for the universities. Between games and practices they probably work more hours than an average employee works.

My point is you don't need a scholarship to play college basketball and NIL makes that possible.

[PBRme]

I'd think Scholarships for the BB and FB teams and a lot of the other expenses could be legitimately categorized as marketing expenses because of the recognition created from TV/etc

[muwarrior69]

69, I don't give a rat's rump what% of NBA players have a college degree. That's irrelevant to this conversation.

Again, NIL money doesn't come from the school. So what you are advocating for is that basketball players play basketball for the university without getting anything in return from the university other than the opportunity to play basketball. It's the equivalent of saying professional basketball players shouldn't make a salary because they get endorsement deals anyway.

Athletic Scholarship = "Salary" paid from the university to the player in exchange of playing basketball for the university (and making the university $$$

NIL Money = Endorsement deals that players earn on the side. That is their own separate income.

And for the 4th time, no you cannot take the money from athletic scholarships and turn them into scholarships for other students. Athletic scholarships have zero negative impact on scholarship opportunities for other students. In fact, they generate a ton of revenue for the university which can then be used to create additional scholarship opportunities for other students

What is the difference if tuition cost come from a scholarship or an NIL, the player is still attending class and playing for the University and making the University money. Its just coming out of different pockets; the Universities or the NIL folks paying for the endorsements.

NIL are endorsements he earns on the side and absolutely his own money but they are absolutely connected to play at a certain academic institution.

If the NIL can benefit the player as well as the institution I don't see a problem.

[The Sultan]

My point is you don't need a scholarship to play college basketball and NIL makes that possible.

Right.  But in Division 1 basketball, players get a full ride scholarship AND NIL money.  Why would you advocate for MU to intentionally downgrade its program by not offering scholarships?

Doing so would mean losing more basketball games, losing attendance, etc.  So in an attempt to SAVE scholarship money, the University would actually LOSE revenue.

It makes no sense.

[The Sultan]

If the NIL can benefit the player as well as the institution I don't see a problem.

You don't see a problem with telling a student athlete that they are no longer receiving a scholarship but now have to pay for their own tuition, etc. out of their NIL money?  Why would any student athlete think that's a good deal?

[NCMUFan]

That is a good point Clarissa.  Doesn't it come down not just what school but what area has the potential to the best deals ($$).  Now with Milwaukee and surrounding metro having a fairly high population, NIL opportunities could be pretty good.
But would Milwaukee compare to Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami?
Would some CBB players pick a school to attend based on the opportunity to be the star on team at a school with a history of poor records because of awesome NIL opportunities?

[muwarrior69]

Right.  But in Division 1 basketball, players get a full ride scholarship AND NIL money.  Why would you advocate for MU to intentionally downgrade its program by not offering scholarships?

Doing so would mean losing more basketball games, losing attendance, etc.  So in an attempt to SAVE scholarship money, the University would actually LOSE revenue.

It makes no sense.

I never said don't offer scholarships all I said is that they may not have to. If a coach really wants a recruit because he is that missing piece at the guard or pf position but is over the scholarship limit and the recruit really wants to play for the coach, NIL solves both the player and the coach's problem. No losing basketball games, no losing attendance; seems like win win for everybody; and you don't have to send a scholarship player packing. Does it really matter who is paying the tuition?

[muwarrior69]

You don't see a problem with telling a student athlete that they are no longer receiving a scholarship but now have to pay for their own tuition, etc. out of their NIL money?  Why would any student athlete think that's a good deal?

..and how is that any different than telling a player he has to find another scholarship elsewhere and if the folks paying the NIL cough up the extra money for tuition no harm.

[lawdog77]

..and how is that any different than telling a player he has to find another scholarship elsewhere and if the folks paying the NIL cough up the extra money for tuition no harm.

My 2cents, if the player is not good enough to warrant the scholarship, he ain't getting much NIL.

[GoFastAndWin]

That is a good point Clarissa.  Doesn't it come down not just what school but what area has the potential to the best deals ($$).  Now with Milwaukee and surrounding metro having a fairly high population, NIL opportunities could be pretty good.
But would Milwaukee compare to Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami?
Would some CBB players pick a school to attend based on the opportunity to be the star on team at a school with a history of poor records because of awesome NIL opportunities?

DePaul? 😬

[brewcity77]

Does it really matter who is paying the tuition?

Actually, yes, it does. One of the few rules the NCAA does have in place is that NIL can not be an "enticement." While it's hard to differentiate what is and isn't an enticement, they are investigating BYU because their deal included walk-ons. Having a player walk on and earn money that can be used to replace what a scholarship pays for seems to be off-limits with the NCAA, so we can just nip this one in the bud.

They may find that after athletes are enrolled and already there it is allowable to change to walk-on status, but that hasn't been determined yet. At this point, the inference is that NIL money can not supplement scholarship dollars.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Not sure why a top basketball player would willfully pay $50,000 per year to walk-on, so the team can add an extra player to the end of their bench.

It makes no sense whatsoever.

[LAZER]

Not sure why a top basketball player would willfully pay $50,000 per year to walk-on, so the team can add an extra player to the end of their bench.

It makes no sense whatsoever.

Well I think in this scenario it would be a player giving up his $50k scholarship for NIL money that exceeds the value of his scholarship.

[Billy Hoyle]

Enlighten us.

To change from an F-1 student visa to an O-1A talent visa (athletes, educators, business, the sciences) one must display what the government defines as "extraordinary talent and achievement" and it is an extremely high bar to meet. Tshwiebe wasn't able to do so until he was named an All-America and NPOY. All conference isn't enough, and at averaging 6.6ppg O-Max isn't even that.

Even with the O-1B visa for actors, just a run-of-the-mill actor wanting to come to the US isn't going to get one. They need to meet the threshold established by CIS.

[Hards Alumni]

To change from an F-1 student visa to an O-1A talent visa (athletes, educators, business, the sciences) one must display what the government defines as "extraordinary talent and achievement" and it is an extremely high bar to meet. Tshwiebe wasn't able to do so until he was named an All-America and NPOY. All conference isn't enough, and at averaging 6.6ppg O-Max isn't even that.

Even with the O-1B visa for actors, just a run-of-the-mill actor wanting to come to the US isn't going to get one. They need to meet the threshold established by CIS.

Has the CIS defined the threshold?

[muwarrior69]

Actually, yes, it does. One of the few rules the NCAA does have in place is that NIL can not be an "enticement." While it's hard to differentiate what is and isn't an enticement, they are investigating BYU because their deal included walk-ons. Having a player walk on and earn money that can be used to replace what a scholarship pays for seems to be off-limits with the NCAA, so we can just nip this one in the bud.

They may find that after athletes are enrolled and already there it is allowable to change to walk-on status, but that hasn't been determined yet. At this point, the inference is that NIL money can not supplement scholarship dollars.

So paying a kid 600k is not an enticement simply because Miami offered him a scholarship, but BYU is breaking some rule? I thought regular students paying their own way could earn is much as they want, but they can't play sports?

Coming up with a large enough NIL to keep JLew here at MU is not an enticement. That is not pay to play?

[NCMUFan]

To change from an F-1 student visa to an O-1A talent visa (athletes, educators, business, the sciences) one must display what the government defines as "extraordinary talent and achievement" and it is an extremely high bar to meet. Tshwiebe wasn't able to do so until he was named an All-America and NPOY. All conference isn't enough, and at averaging 6.6ppg O-Max isn't even that.

Even with the O-1B visa for actors, just a run-of-the-mill actor wanting to come to the US isn't going to get one. They need to meet the threshold established by CIS.

What is the difference with a H-1B?

[brewcity77]

So paying a kid 600k is not an enticement simply because Miami offered him a scholarship, but BYU is breaking some rule? I thought regular students paying their own way could earn is much as they want, but they can't play sports?

If you're looking for explanations as to how the NCAA thinks, you've come to the wrong place.

And regarding O-Max and other internationals, I'm still waiting for Billy's thorough and I'm sure forthcoming explanation on Prosper jerseys being sold by the Spirit Shop.

Marquette Basketball generates millions of dollars every year. It does so because of the athletes they bring in. If I were trying to set up international NIL, I would probably start there, or how the G-League handles the internationals on their rosters. But the point of the article is not to answer all of these questions, it is to encourage Marquette to take a leadership role in finding the answers. Because, quite frankly, that became their most important job the moment the NCAA abdicated most NIL responsibility.

[Uncle Rico]

Has the CIS defined the threshold?

It's going to get changed within the next year

[Hards Alumni]

It's going to get changed within the next year

You never let me have my fun.

[Newsdreams]

My point is you don't need a scholarship to play college basketball and NIL makes that possible.

LOL so all the athletes that can pay their own way shouldn't get scholarships? Are we an Ivy league school. Sorry but your lacking.....

[Newsdreams]

..and how is that any different than telling a player he has to find another scholarship elsewhere and if the folks paying the NIL cough up the extra money for tuition no harm.

NIL is taxable the scholarship isn't. Many of the guys on scholarships have to pay their way home for vacations and for sone it is a burden. But I bet you probably think that is a good learning experience, Jesus no matta.,.