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Author Topic: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things  (Read 6884 times)

brewcity77

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[Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« on: April 27, 2022, 01:35:19 PM »
Marquette is in a rare position and now is the time to go all-in on aggressive Name, Image, and Likeness action. It is imperative that Marquette be a leader in this space, and that donors force them into that position if the administration isn't willing to do it themselves. Cracked Sidewalks looks at why Marquette should lead based on the University's history, its mission, and the current legislation.

https://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2022/04/move-fast-break-things.html
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BrewCity83

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2022, 04:22:19 PM »
Great comprehensive analysis, Brew.  MU's gotta get on this now!
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Shooter McGavin

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2022, 04:33:37 PM »
Marquette is in a rare position and now is the time to go all-in on aggressive Name, Image, and Likeness action. It is imperative that Marquette be a leader in this space, and that donors force them into that position if the administration isn't willing to do it themselves. Cracked Sidewalks looks at why Marquette should lead based on the University's history, its mission, and the current legislation.

https://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2022/04/move-fast-break-things.html

Nice Brew!  MU does need to be all in for NIL to be a positive for our University. 

Clam Crowder

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2022, 04:55:57 PM »
Where is the mention of when Mike B went after this pretty quickly?

tower912

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2022, 05:03:58 PM »
Yep.  Broeker responded quickly.   

Which should be a reminder that these boards do get read.
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Shooter McGavin

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2022, 05:11:21 PM »
Yep.  Broeker responded quickly.   

Which should be a reminder that these boards do get read.

Tower,  where do you see the reply from Broeker?  Twitter?

tower912

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2022, 05:19:07 PM »
Twitter.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Shooter McGavin

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2022, 05:21:19 PM »
 :-\
Twitter.

Thank you.  Appreciate the reply.

Billy Hoyle

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2022, 05:42:38 PM »
Perhaps Marquette, with Olivier Maxence-Prosper already on campus and Ben Gold coming in, could find a similar way that Kentucky did to amend their visas and open the door for Marquette to become a more attractive destination for international recruits.


Yeah, it doesn't quite work like that.
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Hards Alumni

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2022, 05:44:59 PM »
Perhaps Marquette, with Olivier Maxence-Prosper already on campus and Ben Gold coming in, could find a similar way that Kentucky did to amend their visas and open the door for Marquette to become a more attractive destination for international recruits.


Yeah, it doesn't quite work like that.

Enlighten us.

Uncle Rico

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2022, 06:11:08 PM »
Enlighten us.

There are ways to do it and Tshiebwe and his representatives have actually been working to get this law changed at a federal level.  It’s basically the thesis of Brew’s article, it’s time for Marquette to get creative and aggressive in the NIL game like Kentucky did with Tshiebwe. 
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rocky_warrior

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2022, 06:32:34 PM »
Twitter.

C'mon man, provide a link, and quote if necessary.

https://twitter.com/mikebroeker/status/1519398013332041729?cxt=HHwWgsC5ka2c_pUqAAAA
Quote
Or maybe we are supporting NIL in a manner that is consistent with our guiding values.  Please don’t make assumptions.  Just pick up a phone and ask.  More to come. 🏀🦅#mubb

Of course, there's a lot of TBD in his reply.  But I guess I should pick up the phone (and not look for Marquette's NIL app).

mubb3434

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2022, 07:43:54 PM »
Marquette should hire someone who’s job is only around building NIL partnerships, and managing the overall NIL program for MU. Lets leverage the relationships MU has with big powerful companies in the area and/or run by Alumni. I want Camping World, Harley, Bergstrom, <Insert Company Name Here> to have the full court press on getting MU basketball on the national stage.

Shooter McGavin

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2022, 08:29:35 PM »
Marquette should hire someone who’s job is only around building NIL partnerships, and managing the overall NIL program for MU. Lets leverage the relationships MU has with big powerful companies in the area and/or run by Alumni. I want Camping World, Harley, Bergstrom, <Insert Company Name Here> to have the full court press on getting MU basketball on the national stage.

I’ve been advocating for an entire separate division in the department of athletics since all this talk of NIL started.  You are either going to be a player or not. 

Newsdreams

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2022, 08:50:43 PM »
I’ve been advocating for an entire separate division in the department of athletics since all this talk of NIL started.  You are either going to be a player or not.
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rocky_warrior

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2022, 10:32:32 PM »
Marquette should hire someone who’s job is only around building NIL partnerships, and managing the overall NIL program for MU. Lets leverage the relationships MU has with big powerful companies in the area and/or run by Alumni. I want Camping World, Harley, Bergstrom, <Insert Company Name Here> to have the full court press on getting MU basketball on the national stage.

I did ignore a call tonight from a 414 number.  It was probably someone trying to tap MUScoop funds for NIL.  If they don't know how to email, I won't respond.  Even then, I'm unlikely to respond.  Throw me a season box for 'scoop members, and maybe we'll talk.  Don't worry folks, I have your backs.

GoFastAndWin

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2022, 11:55:25 PM »
Move Fast and Break Things?

🤔

Is my Scoop NIL royalties check in the mail?
Please make payable to GoFastAndWin LLC or the Richard Dreyfus/Trotter Foundation 🐴
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« Last Edit: April 27, 2022, 11:59:02 PM by GoFastAndWin »

1SE

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2022, 04:10:45 AM »
First of all - thanks Brew for starting a distinct thread for this and hopefully getting this talk out of the Justin thread where I go to see if there are big board updates, etc.

Second - good read but I think there is an angle to this that most folks on here aren't picking up on - and that's the supply issue and the absorptive capacity of rosters.

NIL is getting more kids to stay in school. Many more of 40 guys that think they're in the last 10 picks of the 2nd round are going to stay in school. Like you said, look at UNC. Look at Pack, look at Tshiebwe. But there are only so many roster spots and minutes to go around.

 If UNC lost Davis and Love and Bacot it's not like they would have sucked next year. They probably would have grabbed one (or more) of the better transfers. Also - while it probably didn't have much of an effect this year - I wonder if guys sticking around longer won't start to put a chill on recruiting - if 5-star guys think they're going to have to sit in year 1 at UNC (and other bluebloods) because they have more upperclassmen then they might think about going somewhere else where they are more likely to get minutes.

NIL will keep more talent in the NCAA, but there are only so many minutes to dole out. That suggests the talent will spread. Also, there are only so many NIL dollars to go around - the top guys will get paid, but most were getting "paid" before.

All that said, I think MU does need to have a plan in place to be able to hang on to top "breakout" guys like Justin. It would be very telling if Justin pulls out of the draft but transfers elsewhere for NIL money. I think that is a risk but if MU only needs to pony up funds for 1 or 2 "studs" to keep them from bolting (no pun intended) that should be an easier task than bluebloods who will need to (continue) to come up with top NIL coin for 5 starters.

Long story short - I don't think MU needs to be overly aggressive here and that NIL will raise all boats/lead to MORE convergence by keeping more talent in college ball - some of which - by necessity of a finite amount of playing time - will disperse out beyond traditional blue-blood/1&done schools.
 
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muwarrior69

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2022, 05:54:07 AM »
Again, why offer scholarships at all; just include tuition as part of the NIL and there is no roster cap. That way scholarship money can be offered to those dental students, engineers etc. who actually will use their degree after graduation. As the article says move fast and break things, like putting in incentives for every NCCAT win. If playing time is an issue why have 13 when you can have 10 high performing players, but 13 seems right if a player is injured.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2022, 06:01:36 AM by muwarrior69 »

brewcity77

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2022, 06:45:38 AM »
Perhaps Marquette, with Olivier Maxence-Prosper already on campus and Ben Gold coming in, could find a similar way that Kentucky did to amend their visas and open the door for Marquette to become a more attractive destination for international recruits.


Yeah, it doesn't quite work like that.

And yet Olivier Maxence-Prosper name jerseys are for sale at the Spirit Shop, so clearly there's some small efforts going on.

Broeker's response was expected. Any time things like this are discussed, it's all values and patience. But I went to Marquette. Aggressively advocating for your charges is a perfect fit for Jesuit values. And patience is the exact wrong tact to take right now when State legislation could hamstring efforts at any time. Get ahead of the legislation and if you have to moderate when Madison finally does something, at least you've done right by your student athletes in the window you have.

Jim Chones likely stays in 1972 with NIL. The reason to do this is because it is the RIGHT thing to do. Marquette dragging their feet and sticking to the wait and see mentality is doing wrong by the program and doing wrong by the student athletes.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2022, 06:47:55 AM »
Again, why offer scholarships at all; just include tuition as part of the NIL and there is no roster cap. That way scholarship money can be offered to those dental students, engineers etc. who actually will use their degree after graduation. As the article says move fast and break things, like putting in incentives for every NCCAT win. If playing time is an issue why have 13 when you can have 10 high performing players, but 13 seems right if a player is injured.

1. NIL doesn't come from the school

2. Giving out athletic scholarships doesn't take one penny from other scholarships,  in facts it creates more revenue to fund other scholarships

3. You keep implying that college athletes don't use their degrees.  Why do you assume that? Yes,  a few go pro in their sport. 99% end up going into something else most of which involves using their degree. You seem to think that all college athletes are unintelligent which is an awful stereotype
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MU82

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2022, 06:54:02 AM »
Marquette should hire someone who’s job is only around building NIL partnerships, and managing the overall NIL program for MU. Lets leverage the relationships MU has with big powerful companies in the area and/or run by Alumni. I want Camping World, Harley, Bergstrom, <Insert Company Name Here> to have the full court press on getting MU basketball on the national stage.

Yep.

I’ve been advocating for an entire separate division in the department of athletics since all this talk of NIL started.  You are either going to be a player or not. 

Yep again. And not only for men's basketball. As we have come to understand NIL better, a surprising number of athletes not in basketball and football are benefiting from NIL, usually because of activity on social media.

I did ignore a call tonight from a 414 number.  It was probably someone trying to tap MUScoop funds for NIL.  If they don't know how to email, I won't respond.  Even then, I'm unlikely to respond.  Throw me a season box for 'scoop members, and maybe we'll talk.  Don't worry folks, I have your backs.

I'm pretty sure that call was to extend your warranty on Justin Lewis.
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Hards Alumni

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2022, 07:07:42 AM »
1. NIL doesn't come from the school

2. Giving out athletic scholarships doesn't take one penny from other scholarships,  in facts it creates more revenue to fund other scholarships

3. You keep implying that college athletes don't use their degrees.  Why do you assume that? Yes,  a few go pro in their sport. 99% end up going into something else most of which involves using their degree. You seem to think that all college athletes are unintelligent which is an awful stereotype

Because when confronted with things he doesn't understand, he falls back on his preconceived notions instead of trying to learn about those things.

He's the prototypical, "can't teach an old dog new tricks" kind of person.

Newsdreams

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2022, 07:23:17 AM »
Again, why offer scholarships at all; just include tuition as part of the NIL and there is no roster cap. That way scholarship money can be offered to those dental students, engineers etc. who actually will use their degree after graduation. As the article says move fast and break things, like putting in incentives for every NCCAT win. If playing time is an issue why have 13 when you can have 10 high performing players, but 13 seems right if a player is injured.
Why would we want to be less desirable of an option against all other schools that give scholarship plus allow NIL? Besides athletic scholarship don't take a penny from academic scholarships. Maybe you don't understand how all of this works?
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muwarrior69

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2022, 07:41:57 AM »
1. NIL doesn't come from the school

2. Giving out athletic scholarships doesn't take one penny from other scholarships,  in facts it creates more revenue to fund other scholarships

3. You keep implying that college athletes don't use their degrees.  Why do you assume that? Yes,  a few go pro in their sport. 99% end up going into something else most of which involves using their degree. You seem to think that all college athletes are unintelligent which is an awful stereotype

...I know NIL doesn't come from the school but it still could pay for tuition. I'll concede that most college athletes don't get 100% free rides either and use their athletic scholarships to get an education, yet an NIL could help these students as well by paying for school costs through a sponsor not covered by the partial scholarship. MU mens basketball is in that 1% and if the school does not have to offer a player a full scholarship that money can be used to generate revenue to fund other scholarships as well. When I asked why offer scholarships it was in reference to MU basketball players and I know MU has good graduation track record thus far, but only 21% of NBA players have their degree and these are the players we are talking about and the HS and College players know this.

I'm not saying don't offer scholarships all I'm saying is that you don't have to and it could benefit everyone.

https://idswater.com/2020/02/02/what-percentage-of-the-nba-has-a-college-degree/

NCMUFan

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2022, 08:02:55 AM »
NASCAR meets CBB?

Newsdreams

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2022, 08:04:02 AM »
...I know NIL doesn't come from the school but it still could pay for tuition. I'll concede that most college athletes don't get 100% free rides either and use their athletic scholarships to get an education, yet an NIL could help these students as well by paying for school costs through a sponsor not covered by the partial scholarship. MU mens basketball is in that 1% and if the school does not have to offer a player a full scholarship that money can be used to generate revenue to fund other scholarships as well. When I asked why offer scholarships it was in reference to MU basketball players and I know MU has good graduation track record thus far, but only 21% of NBA players have their degree and these are the players we are talking about and the HS and College players know this.

I'm not saying don't offer scholarships all I'm saying is that you don't have to and it could benefit everyone.

https://idswater.com/2020/02/02/what-percentage-of-the-nba-has-a-college-degree/
Wrong, athletic scholarship don't work that way. Can't just reallocate the donations. What does NBA players & college degrees have to do with this? You're stuck on a PR campaign NCAA has been doing for years because they didn't want athletes to be able to earn $ for working for the universities. Between games and practices they probably work more hours than an average employee works.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2022, 08:41:56 AM »
...I know NIL doesn't come from the school but it still could pay for tuition. I'll concede that most college athletes don't get 100% free rides either and use their athletic scholarships to get an education, yet an NIL could help these students as well by paying for school costs through a sponsor not covered by the partial scholarship. MU mens basketball is in that 1% and if the school does not have to offer a player a full scholarship that money can be used to generate revenue to fund other scholarships as well. When I asked why offer scholarships it was in reference to MU basketball players and I know MU has good graduation track record thus far, but only 21% of NBA players have their degree and these are the players we are talking about and the HS and College players know this.

I'm not saying don't offer scholarships all I'm saying is that you don't have to and it could benefit everyone.

https://idswater.com/2020/02/02/what-percentage-of-the-nba-has-a-college-degree/

69, I don't give a rat's rump what% of NBA players have a college degree. That's irrelevant to this conversation.

Again, NIL money doesn't come from the school. So what you are advocating for is that basketball players play basketball for the university without getting anything in return from the university other than the opportunity to play basketball. It's the equivalent of saying professional basketball players shouldn't make a salary because they get endorsement deals anyway.

Athletic Scholarship = "Salary" paid from the university to the player in exchange of playing basketball for the university (and making the university $$$

NIL Money = Endorsement deals that players earn on the side. That is their own separate income.

And for the 4th time, no you cannot take the money from athletic scholarships and turn them into scholarships for other students. Athletic scholarships have zero negative impact on scholarship opportunities for other students. In fact, they generate a ton of revenue for the university which can then be used to create additional scholarship opportunities for other students
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muwarrior69

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2022, 08:46:25 AM »
Wrong, athletic scholarship don't work that way. Can't just reallocate the donations. What does NBA players & college degrees have to do with this? You're stuck on a PR campaign NCAA has been doing for years because they didn't want athletes to be able to earn $ for working for the universities. Between games and practices they probably work more hours than an average employee works.

My point is you don't need a scholarship to play college basketball and NIL makes that possible.

PBRme

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2022, 08:47:34 AM »
I'd think Scholarships for the BB and FB teams and a lot of the other expenses could be legitimately categorized as marketing expenses because of the recognition created from TV/etc
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muwarrior69

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2022, 09:04:40 AM »
69, I don't give a rat's rump what% of NBA players have a college degree. That's irrelevant to this conversation.

Again, NIL money doesn't come from the school. So what you are advocating for is that basketball players play basketball for the university without getting anything in return from the university other than the opportunity to play basketball. It's the equivalent of saying professional basketball players shouldn't make a salary because they get endorsement deals anyway.

Athletic Scholarship = "Salary" paid from the university to the player in exchange of playing basketball for the university (and making the university $$$

NIL Money = Endorsement deals that players earn on the side. That is their own separate income.

And for the 4th time, no you cannot take the money from athletic scholarships and turn them into scholarships for other students. Athletic scholarships have zero negative impact on scholarship opportunities for other students. In fact, they generate a ton of revenue for the university which can then be used to create additional scholarship opportunities for other students

What is the difference if tuition cost come from a scholarship or an NIL, the player is still attending class and playing for the University and making the University money. Its just coming out of different pockets; the Universities or the NIL folks paying for the endorsements.

NIL are endorsements he earns on the side and absolutely his own money but they are absolutely connected to play at a certain academic institution.

If the NIL can benefit the player as well as the institution I don't see a problem.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2022, 09:16:40 AM »
My point is you don't need a scholarship to play college basketball and NIL makes that possible.


Right.  But in Division 1 basketball, players get a full ride scholarship AND NIL money.  Why would you advocate for MU to intentionally downgrade its program by not offering scholarships?

Doing so would mean losing more basketball games, losing attendance, etc.  So in an attempt to SAVE scholarship money, the University would actually LOSE revenue.

It makes no sense.
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2022, 09:18:15 AM »
If the NIL can benefit the player as well as the institution I don't see a problem.


You don't see a problem with telling a student athlete that they are no longer receiving a scholarship but now have to pay for their own tuition, etc. out of their NIL money?  Why would any student athlete think that's a good deal?
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NCMUFan

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2022, 09:52:11 AM »
That is a good point Clarissa.  Doesn't it come down not just what school but what area has the potential to the best deals ($$).  Now with Milwaukee and surrounding metro having a fairly high population, NIL opportunities could be pretty good.
But would Milwaukee compare to Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami?
Would some CBB players pick a school to attend based on the opportunity to be the star on team at a school with a history of poor records because of awesome NIL opportunities?

muwarrior69

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2022, 09:55:30 AM »

Right.  But in Division 1 basketball, players get a full ride scholarship AND NIL money.  Why would you advocate for MU to intentionally downgrade its program by not offering scholarships?

Doing so would mean losing more basketball games, losing attendance, etc.  So in an attempt to SAVE scholarship money, the University would actually LOSE revenue.

It makes no sense.

I never said don't offer scholarships all I said is that they may not have to. If a coach really wants a recruit because he is that missing piece at the guard or pf position but is over the scholarship limit and the recruit really wants to play for the coach, NIL solves both the player and the coach's problem. No losing basketball games, no losing attendance; seems like win win for everybody; and you don't have to send a scholarship player packing. Does it really matter who is paying the tuition?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2022, 09:59:47 AM by muwarrior69 »

muwarrior69

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2022, 10:04:35 AM »

You don't see a problem with telling a student athlete that they are no longer receiving a scholarship but now have to pay for their own tuition, etc. out of their NIL money?  Why would any student athlete think that's a good deal?

..and how is that any different than telling a player he has to find another scholarship elsewhere and if the folks paying the NIL cough up the extra money for tuition no harm.

lawdog77

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2022, 10:19:51 AM »
..and how is that any different than telling a player he has to find another scholarship elsewhere and if the folks paying the NIL cough up the extra money for tuition no harm.
My 2cents, if the player is not good enough to warrant the scholarship, he ain't getting much NIL.

GoFastAndWin

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2022, 10:24:42 AM »
That is a good point Clarissa.  Doesn't it come down not just what school but what area has the potential to the best deals ($$).  Now with Milwaukee and surrounding metro having a fairly high population, NIL opportunities could be pretty good.
But would Milwaukee compare to Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami?
Would some CBB players pick a school to attend based on the opportunity to be the star on team at a school with a history of poor records because of awesome NIL opportunities?

DePaul? 😬

brewcity77

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2022, 10:29:09 AM »
Does it really matter who is paying the tuition?

Actually, yes, it does. One of the few rules the NCAA does have in place is that NIL can not be an "enticement." While it's hard to differentiate what is and isn't an enticement, they are investigating BYU because their deal included walk-ons. Having a player walk on and earn money that can be used to replace what a scholarship pays for seems to be off-limits with the NCAA, so we can just nip this one in the bud.

They may find that after athletes are enrolled and already there it is allowable to change to walk-on status, but that hasn't been determined yet. At this point, the inference is that NIL money can not supplement scholarship dollars.
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Juan Anderson's Mixtape

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2022, 11:27:49 AM »
Not sure why a top basketball player would willfully pay $50,000 per year to walk-on, so the team can add an extra player to the end of their bench.

It makes no sense whatsoever.

LAZER

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2022, 11:42:28 AM »
Not sure why a top basketball player would willfully pay $50,000 per year to walk-on, so the team can add an extra player to the end of their bench.

It makes no sense whatsoever.
Well I think in this scenario it would be a player giving up his $50k scholarship for NIL money that exceeds the value of his scholarship.

Billy Hoyle

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2022, 11:52:30 AM »
Enlighten us.

To change from an F-1 student visa to an O-1A talent visa (athletes, educators, business, the sciences) one must display what the government defines as "extraordinary talent and achievement" and it is an extremely high bar to meet. Tshwiebe wasn't able to do so until he was named an All-America and NPOY. All conference isn't enough, and at averaging 6.6ppg O-Max isn't even that.

Even with the O-1B visa for actors, just a run-of-the-mill actor wanting to come to the US isn't going to get one. They need to meet the threshold established by CIS.
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Hards Alumni

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2022, 11:57:51 AM »
To change from an F-1 student visa to an O-1A talent visa (athletes, educators, business, the sciences) one must display what the government defines as "extraordinary talent and achievement" and it is an extremely high bar to meet. Tshwiebe wasn't able to do so until he was named an All-America and NPOY. All conference isn't enough, and at averaging 6.6ppg O-Max isn't even that.

Even with the O-1B visa for actors, just a run-of-the-mill actor wanting to come to the US isn't going to get one. They need to meet the threshold established by CIS.

Has the CIS defined the threshold?

muwarrior69

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2022, 12:02:11 PM »
Actually, yes, it does. One of the few rules the NCAA does have in place is that NIL can not be an "enticement." While it's hard to differentiate what is and isn't an enticement, they are investigating BYU because their deal included walk-ons. Having a player walk on and earn money that can be used to replace what a scholarship pays for seems to be off-limits with the NCAA, so we can just nip this one in the bud.

They may find that after athletes are enrolled and already there it is allowable to change to walk-on status, but that hasn't been determined yet. At this point, the inference is that NIL money can not supplement scholarship dollars.

So paying a kid 600k is not an enticement simply because Miami offered him a scholarship, but BYU is breaking some rule? I thought regular students paying their own way could earn is much as they want, but they can't play sports?

Coming up with a large enough NIL to keep JLew here at MU is not an enticement. That is not pay to play?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2022, 12:19:40 PM by muwarrior69 »

NCMUFan

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2022, 12:02:54 PM »
To change from an F-1 student visa to an O-1A talent visa (athletes, educators, business, the sciences) one must display what the government defines as "extraordinary talent and achievement" and it is an extremely high bar to meet. Tshwiebe wasn't able to do so until he was named an All-America and NPOY. All conference isn't enough, and at averaging 6.6ppg O-Max isn't even that.

Even with the O-1B visa for actors, just a run-of-the-mill actor wanting to come to the US isn't going to get one. They need to meet the threshold established by CIS.
What is the difference with a H-1B?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2022, 12:05:32 PM by NCMUFan »

brewcity77

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2022, 12:11:59 PM »
So paying a kid 600k is not an enticement simply because Miami offered him a scholarship, but BYU is breaking some rule? I thought regular students paying their own way could earn is much as they want, but they can't play sports?

If you're looking for explanations as to how the NCAA thinks, you've come to the wrong place.

And regarding O-Max and other internationals, I'm still waiting for Billy's thorough and I'm sure forthcoming explanation on Prosper jerseys being sold by the Spirit Shop.

Marquette Basketball generates millions of dollars every year. It does so because of the athletes they bring in. If I were trying to set up international NIL, I would probably start there, or how the G-League handles the internationals on their rosters. But the point of the article is not to answer all of these questions, it is to encourage Marquette to take a leadership role in finding the answers. Because, quite frankly, that became their most important job the moment the NCAA abdicated most NIL responsibility.
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Uncle Rico

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2022, 12:21:14 PM »
Has the CIS defined the threshold?

It’s going to get changed within the next year
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Hards Alumni

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2022, 12:41:12 PM »
It’s going to get changed within the next year

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2022, 01:12:56 PM »
My point is you don't need a scholarship to play college basketball and NIL makes that possible.
LOL so all the athletes that can pay their own way shouldn't get scholarships? Are we an Ivy league school. Sorry but your lacking.....
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Newsdreams

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2022, 01:18:33 PM »
..and how is that any different than telling a player he has to find another scholarship elsewhere and if the folks paying the NIL cough up the extra money for tuition no harm.
NIL is taxable the scholarship isn't. Many of the guys on scholarships have to pay their way home for vacations and for sone it is a burden. But I bet you probably think that is a good learning experience, Jesus no matta.,.
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Billy Hoyle

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2022, 10:09:46 PM »
If you're looking for explanations as to how the NCAA thinks, you've come to the wrong place.

And regarding O-Max and other internationals, I'm still waiting for Billy's thorough and I'm sure forthcoming explanation on Prosper jerseys being sold by the Spirit Shop.


Marquette Basketball generates millions of dollars every year. It does so because of the athletes they bring in. If I were trying to set up international NIL, I would probably start there, or how the G-League handles the internationals on their rosters. But the point of the article is not to answer all of these questions, it is to encourage Marquette to take a leadership role in finding the answers. Because, quite frankly, that became their most important job the moment the NCAA abdicated most NIL responsibility.

The only income an international student can receive is from a campus source. International students can work on-campus and be paid by the school (e.g., the library, rec center, as an RA). So, when Marquette University's bookstore sells gear with a player's name on it they can receive proceeds since the income is being paid by the university to the student.


What is the difference with a H-1B?

one needs to have earned a bachelor's degree to get an H1-B visa. The sponsor also has to show the candidate for the visa provides a high specialized level or knowledge or service they cannot get from a US Citizen.
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brewcity77

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2022, 06:07:55 AM »
The only income an international student can receive is from a campus source. International students can work on-campus and be paid by the school (e.g., the library, rec center, as an RA). So, when Marquette University's bookstore sells gear with a player's name on it they can receive proceeds since the income is being paid by the university to the student.

So if the University gave the players all but the material cost for the shirt and found a donor to buy 100,000 of the shirts then donate them to schools in the player's hometown or country of origin, that would be a perfectly fine, legitimate use of NIL that put us at the forefront of international recruiting?

This is why being aggressive, being creative, and acting fast matters. Because if we don't, someone else will.
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NCMUFan

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #52 on: April 30, 2022, 02:13:24 PM »
The issue of giving scholarships should probably just be viewed as an annual basketball business expense.
The player or recruit having good NIL opportunities at MU would probably significantly sweeten the incentive to attend Marquette.
With NIL, there may be a significant paradigm shift of why a recruit would attend a particular school or not.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2022, 02:15:09 PM by NCMUFan »

Billy Hoyle

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2022, 11:33:30 AM »
So if the University gave the players all but the material cost for the shirt and found a donor to buy 100,000 of the shirts then donate them to schools in the player's hometown or country of origin, that would be a perfectly fine, legitimate use of NIL that put us at the forefront of international recruiting?

This is why being aggressive, being creative, and acting fast matters. Because if we don't, someone else will.

You're trying too hard with things you just don't understand.
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brewcity77

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #54 on: May 02, 2022, 11:41:10 AM »
You're trying too hard with things you just don't understand.

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JakeBarnes

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #55 on: May 02, 2022, 11:54:14 AM »
So mu athletics just launched a partnership with Altius sports. This may be what was in the works?
Assume what I say should be in teal if it doesn't pass the smell test for you.


Juan Anderson's Mixtape

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #56 on: May 02, 2022, 11:55:53 AM »
Well I think in this scenario it would be a player giving up his $50k scholarship for NIL money that exceeds the value of his scholarship.

But the player can have both.  Say a player gets $500k in a NIL deal.  Do you really think any player in that situation would willfully turn down the scholarship and choose to pay tens of thousands of dollars to the university?  Or do you think it's more likely that they keep the scholarship?

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #57 on: May 02, 2022, 12:10:25 PM »
So mu athletics just launched a partnership with Altius sports. This may be what was in the works?

For starters
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LAZER

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #58 on: May 02, 2022, 12:36:04 PM »
But the player can have both.  Say a player gets $500k in a NIL deal.  Do you really think any player in that situation would willfully turn down the scholarship and choose to pay tens of thousands of dollars to the university?  Or do you think it's more likely that they keep the scholarship?
I think the player would do whatever gets him the most money. The way I'm thinking about it is, it's just shifting scholarship dollars to NIL dollars and the NIL deal would cover tuition, but free up a scholarship.

brewcity77

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2022, 12:39:21 PM »
I think the player would do whatever gets him the most money. The way I'm thinking about it is, it's just shifting scholarship dollars to NIL dollars and the NIL deal would cover tuition, but free up a scholarship.

I believe that falls under enticement rules (one of the few rules the NCAA is trying to implement) and that's why BYU is being investigated, as well as why NIL gets murkier when it comes to walk-ons. I think it would only be available for players that had played at a school already, but it will definitely be something they have to iron out. This is why the NCAA failed grossly when it came to this topic. By trying to first punish states, then trying to punt to congress, then just throwing up their hands and saying "we take no responsibility" this was a complete fustercluck.
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cheebs09

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2022, 12:42:10 PM »
So mu athletics just launched a partnership with Altius sports. This may be what was in the works?

I don’t know how this is different from what was announced last fall. Seems to be pretty similar. It’s good to see the university doing something, but not sure how impactful it is.

https://gomarquette.com/news/2021/9/30/general-marquette-athletics-announces-marq-u-nil-initiative.aspx

LAZER

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #61 on: May 02, 2022, 12:47:35 PM »
I believe that falls under enticement rules (one of the few rules the NCAA is trying to implement) and that's why BYU is being investigated, as well as why NIL gets murkier when it comes to walk-ons. I think it would only be available for players that had played at a school already, but it will definitely be something they have to iron out. This is why the NCAA failed grossly when it came to this topic. By trying to first punish states, then trying to punt to congress, then just throwing up their hands and saying "we take no responsibility" this was a complete fustercluck.
You know way more about this than I do, but yeah I think it would potentially be even murkier for sports like lacrosse and hockey when there's lots of partial scholarships involved.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: [Cracked Sidewalks] Move Fast & Break Things
« Reply #62 on: May 03, 2022, 09:00:00 AM »
So mu athletics just launched a partnership with Altius sports. This may be what was in the works?

Old Man Luck, hey?

 

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