Marquette Crime Reports

[WellsstreetWanderer]

My take is that we've already tried incarcerating as many people as we can and it hasn't worked. Rather than wait for a crime to occur,  I think we should try understanding why crime occurs and try to address it before the crime occurs.

Which of course leads us back to the question,  what do you think drives bad people to be bad people?  If we don't understand that,  we'll never make any progress
[/quote]

We did incarcerate too many people but at least the decent people were safe. Now everyone is in danger from the predators released hours after crimes to repeat. Perhaps we should begin to teach the role of consequences for bad acts and help people acquire basic reading and math skills so they can function in society.

[rocket surgeon]

My take is that we've already tried incarcerating as many people as we can and it hasn't worked. Rather than wait for a crime to occur,  I think we should try understanding why crime occurs and try to address it before the crime occurs.

Which of course leads us back to the question,  what do you think drives bad people to be bad people?  If we don't understand that,  we'll never make any progress


We did incarcerate too many people but at least the decent people were safe. Now everyone is in danger from the predators released hours after crimes to repeat. Perhaps we should begin to teach the role of consequences for bad acts and help people acquire basic reading and math skills so they can function in society.

let me get this straight-"we did incarcerate TOO MANY PEOPLE, but at least decent people were safe"

      so which way do you want it?  keep decent people safe?  or stop incarcerating people?  or just incarcerate a few people?  how about if we start with incarcerating people who cannot behave in society?  people who are dangerous to decent people.  if that means building more prisons..build them. 

this guy was just let out of prison...early...despite many saying he has a disregard for life and will probably kill someone...well, they got it partly right...he killed 6 people

https://abc7news.com/mass-shooting-sacramento-suspects-smiley-martin-prison/11714728/

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

We did incarcerate too many people but at least the decent people were safe. Now everyone is in danger from the predators released hours after crimes to repeat. Perhaps we should begin to teach the role of consequences for bad acts and help people acquire basic reading and math skills so they can function in society.

Got any data to back up your assertion that decent people used to be safe?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

let me get this straight-"we did incarcerate TOO MANY PEOPLE, but at least decent people were safe"

      so which way do you want it?  keep decent people safe?  or stop incarcerating people?  or just incarcerate a few people?  how about if we start with incarcerating people who cannot behave in society?  people who are dangerous to decent people.  if that means building more prisons..build them. 

this guy was just let out of prison...early...despite many saying he has a disregard for life and will probably kill someone...well, they got it partly right...he killed 6 people

https://abc7news.com/mass-shooting-sacramento-suspects-smiley-martin-prison/11714728/

1. Watch your friendly fire

2. To answer your poorly targeted question, I would like truly violent offenders to be incarcerated.  I would like a massive decrease in the amount of non violent offenders who are incarcerated coupled with a focus on rehabilitation and primary prevention.

3. You still haven't answered my question, what do you think drives bad people to be bad people?

[rocket surgeon]

Got any data to back up your assertion that decent people used to be safe?

well i don't have the data, but i'll bet there were many more DECENT people who had their cars jacked the past few years.  if you can refer to safety as NOT having ones cat taken from them forcefully, then yes, decent people USED to be safer

[rocket surgeon]

1. Watch your friendly fire

2. To answer your poorly targeted question, I would like truly violent offenders to be incarcerated.  I would like a massive decrease in the amount of non violent offenders who are incarcerated coupled with a focus on rehabilitation and primary prevention.

3. You still haven't answered my question, what do you think drives bad people to be bad people?

tamu, that's a very complicated question; one that would be very difficult to answer here.  people have written books on that subject for chriminey sakes.  and i'm not so naive to step into that one here.  but i'm all ears man

[🏀]

tamu, that's a very complicated question; one that would be very difficult to answer here.  people have written books on that subject for chriminey sakes.  and i'm not so naive to step into that one here.  but i'm all ears man

He's just a dentist, not a politician. Der.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

tamu, that's a very complicated question; one that would be very difficult to answer here.  people have written books on that subject for chriminey sakes.  and i'm not so naive to step into that one here.  but i'm all ears man

So you have no interest in discussing why crime occurs.... just lock up all the bad people? What do you do with the bad people once you lock them up?  Keep them there forever?

[rocket surgeon]

He's just a dentist, not a politician. Der.

ok zero for brains, what's the solution?  how about you and tamu tell us how you would do it?

[wadesworld]

ok zero for brains, what's the solution?  how about you and tamu tell us how you would do it?

Well TAMU already did...

[Uncle Rico]

ok zero for brains, what's the solution?  how about you and tamu tell us how you would do it?

Lock 'em all up, unless they're the right political persuasion and hold rally's

[The Sultan]

let me get this straight-"we did incarcerate TOO MANY PEOPLE, but at least decent people were safe"

      so which way do you want it?  keep decent people safe?  or stop incarcerating people?  or just incarcerate a few people?  how about if we start with incarcerating people who cannot behave in society?  people who are dangerous to decent people.  if that means building more prisons..build them. 

this guy was just let out of prison...early...despite many saying he has a disregard for life and will probably kill someone...well, they got it partly right...he killed 6 people

https://abc7news.com/mass-shooting-sacramento-suspects-smiley-martin-prison/11714728/

The problem is rocket we are incarcerating too many people who don't pose much of a safety risk to society OR who haven't been convicted for anything.

Here is a breakdown:

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2022.html

If we kept the truly violent people in prisons, but found ways to rehabilitate those who aren't really much of a safety risk, we would be much better off as a society.  Just locking people up because they break laws, without determining societal harm, is wasteful and inhumane.

[MU82]

Look, y'all are thinkin' too hard.

Build more prisons, pay $100/hr or more to staff them (because there's already a serious shortage of prison workers), and lock up all the people roQQet thinks are bad.

Rehabilitation? Ain't no rehabilitation allowed. Throw away the key.

Problem solved, society saved!

[mu_hilltopper]

Two words: Penal Colonies.

[mikekinsellaMVP]

if you can refer to safety as NOT having ones cat taken from them forcefully, then yes, decent people USED to be safer

Lock your doors.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Two words: Penal Colonies.

Do we have any urologists on the board that want to comment?

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Got any data to back up your assertion that decent people used to be safe?

   Plenty of data showing how the current crime numbers have soared since no bail policies. pick the city

[The Sultan]

   Plenty of data showing how the current crime numbers have soared since no bail policies. pick the city

Right.  You said they were "safe" and now they are "not safe."  The point is that people were never "safe" to begin with.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

   Plenty of data showing how the current crime numbers have soared since no bail policies. pick the city

Please show me these numbers. I haven't seen them. I've seen many people reference them but never post them. I've tried to find them myself and I've seen numbers that tell a different story but would love to learn more.

[Pakuni]

   Plenty of data showing how the current crime numbers have soared since no bail policies. pick the city

We've been through this already. You're wrong.

"We found four states, as well as nine cities and counties, where there is existing data on public safety from before and after the adoption of pretrial reforms. All but one of these jurisdictions saw decreases or negligible increases in crime after implementing reforms. The one exception is New York State, where the reform law existed for just a few months before it was largely rolled back."

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/11/17/pretrial-releases/

[WellsstreetWanderer]

TAMU  just this morning on network news crime in NYC up 44% 
Same type of data has been reported for many cities.  Sacramento shooter was early release despite DA saying he was capable of more violence once released. I agree with you that SOME people were locked up unfairly but the pendulum has swung to an extreme and law abiding citizens are being preyed upon.

[rocket surgeon]

The problem is rocket we are incarcerating too many people who don't pose much of a safety risk to society OR who haven't been convicted for anything.

Here is a breakdown:

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2022.html

If we kept the truly violent people in prisons, but found ways to rehabilitate those who aren't really much of a safety risk, we would be much better off as a society.  Just locking people up because they break laws, without determining societal harm, is wasteful and inhumane.

  seems like the people in charge don't know the difference between who is a risk to society and who isn't.  reading your prison policy article, it begins with having too many "criminal systems".  too many chefs stirring the soup.  centralize the criminal justice system.  come up with a grading system for each person.  i'm hoping we have some experts doing this.  juveniles are not committing juvenile crimes. 

   anyone who is deemed to be able to live in our society and follow the laws, gets out of prison/jail-

     remain alcohol and drug free
     finish some level of education and become gainfully employed
     NOT BREAK LAWS
  break these laws, go back to end of line and back into prison



have levels of security depending on the crime and/or evaluation formed by committee

   hold judges, police and parole boards accountable for who they release.  if they release someone who commits any crime that involves great bodily harm(rape, murder, physical injury) they serve some sort of punishment to be determined. 

trying to determine WHY people commit crimes is so multifaceted, you would be setting up a system that will fail-bad families, alcohol/drug abuse, education, upbringing, mental health...some of these things are not curable.  bottom line is whatever we are doing today is not working.  recidivism is a big reason, but you say we have too many in prison?  either we have the wrong people in prison or we don't have enough people in prison because crime is out of control in many areas.  juvenile crime is way up.  childrens behavior in schools is abhorrent with teachers feeling helpless.  if bad behavior is not punished, you WILL get more of
it. 
   if the crime is not addressed, it will be deemed acceptable and it is not.   

[rocket surgeon]

We've been through this already. You're wrong.

"We found four states, as well as nine cities and counties, where there is existing data on public safety from before and after the adoption of pretrial reforms. All but one of these jurisdictions saw decreases or negligible increases in crime after implementing reforms. The one exception is New York State, where the reform law existed for just a few months before it was largely rolled back."

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/11/17/pretrial-releases/

so this is all just a figment of our imaginations?  Chicago? houston? st louis? philadelphia?  milwaukee? 

    car jackings are out of control, kids respect no one

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU  just this morning on network news crime in NYC up 44% 
Same type of data has been reported for many cities.  Sacramento shooter was early release despite DA saying he was capable of more violence once released. I agree with you that SOME people were locked up unfairly but the pendulum has swung to an extreme and law abiding citizens are being preyed upon.

What does "crime up 44%" mean? Up 44% from when? What is crime defined as? That's a wonderful catch phrase that I'm sure some talking head somewhere said but it doesn't really tell me anything.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

bottom line is whatever we are doing today is not working.

I'm so glad you agree! Cause what we are doing now is locking up people at a higher rate than any other developed country in the world. So we should stop doing that and try something else. Unless your position is that every other developed country has worse crime than we do in which case, why are we complaining?

either we have the wrong people in prison or we don't have enough people in prison because crime is out of control in many areas. 

Is it possible that our high rate of incarceration contributes to the current level of crime? I think it is likely.

If bad behavior is not punished, you WILL get more of
it. 
   if the crime is not addressed, it will be deemed acceptable and it is not.

So is negative reinforcement the only way to address crime? My personal experience is that threatening people into making good choices rarely works and rewarding people for making good choices is usually a lot more effective.