6 Fouls

[wadesworld]

Go to 6 fouls. And/or (would be even better) eliminate the charge where a player isn't even making a play, just sliding under a player going up for a shot. Tuning in to see a bunch of guys who never see the court blow a lead sucks.

[bradforster]

You would like to go to the old Big East rule?

[CountryRoads]

I don't think charges on shot attempts should be personal fouls.

[brewcity77]

No. 5 is plenty for 40 minutes.

[panda]

No. 5 is plenty for 40 minutes.

Not the way the college game is officiated.

[wadesworld]

Not the way the college game is officiated.

Exactly. If it was reffed consistently then sure. But it's reffed completely differently from night to night.

[D'Lo Brown]

I don't think charges on shot attempts should be personal fouls.

YES

[Ardmore Mug]

Exactly. If it was reffed consistently then sure. But it's reffed completely differently from night to night.Half to Half

FIFY

[NickelDimer]

Watching guys take charges as a defensive strategy and refs excitedly call charges is the lamest development in the history of the sport

[🏀]

FIFY

Evidence bag 1 - Baylor/UNC

[brewcity77]

Exactly. If it was reffed consistently then sure. But it's reffed completely differently from night to night.

That's the NCAA's fault. D1 is too big, reffing is a part time job where the crews are overstressed from travel and overworked trying to get as many games as they can. This tournament generates billion with a b dollars and the refs get like $1,000 per game this weekend.

If they want professional refs, make them professionals. Take care of them and train them appropriately. The problem isn't number of fouls or quality of officials, it's the system the officials are put in.

[MuggsyB]

That's the NCAA's fault. D1 is too big, reffing is a part time job where the crews are overstressed from travel and overworked trying to get as many games as they can. This tournament generates billion with a b dollars and the refs get like $1,000 per game this weekend.


Great points Brew.  $1000 a game is embarrassing.
If they want professional refs, make them professionals. Take care of them and train them appropriately. The problem isn't number of fouls or quality of officials, it's the system the officials are put in.

[Dr. Blackheart]

That's the NCAA's fault. D1 is too big, reffing is a part time job where the crews are overstressed from travel and overworked trying to get as many games as they can. This tournament generates billion with a b dollars and the refs get like $1,000 per game this weekend.

If they want professional refs, make them professionals. Take care of them and train them appropriately. The problem isn't number of fouls or quality of officials, it's the system the officials are put in.

Officials at this level make $2000 per game times 80 to 100 games, plus travel. $160,000 to $200,000. That's professional. What's needed is consistent grading not the old boy network as it exists.

[MuggsyB]

Officials at this level make $2000 per game times 80 to 100 games, plus travel. $160,000 to $200,000. That's professional. What's needed is consistent grading not the old boy network as it exists.

80-100?  Okay.  I didn't realize that.

[panda]

Officials at this level make $2000 per game times 80 to 100 games, plus travel. $160,000 to $200,000. That's professional. What's needed is consistent grading not the old boy network as it exists.

Yep they make very, very good money. All while also holding down another "traditional" job. But also to the point, they are independent contractors. They follow conference and ncaa edicts but are still their own bosses.

We can talk about improving officiating quality or taking away/changing certain calls (charge) but far and away the easiest way would be to add a sixth foul. That changes nothing about the competition and turns it back into a players game, instead of the ref show it has turned into.

[Scoop Snoop]

No. 5 is plenty for 40 minutes.

Agree on 5 is plenty for forty minutes. Your thoughts on allowing a sixth foul for OT?

I would like to see moving screens and charging fouls result just in a TO. Also, I hate the sliding in front of a driving player to draw a charge, but how to tighten the ruling on a charge vs. a block in favor of the driving player? That's a tough one.

Edit: Maybe just changing the charging call to a simple TO without a foul would be enough to alter the risk/reward of blocking. Add in making the blocking call a two shot foul would help as well. 

[WarriorFan]

go to 6 fouls and the officials will call 20% more fouls and make the game 20% worse than it already is.

Block/Charge is easy.  Advantage to the offense unless the defender has been there for at least a week.

Officials must be professional and have better training and a grading system including the players and coaches after each game.  If coaches get fired after bad seasons, so should officials.  The best leagues should cultivate their own officials and the top leagues can pay more to get the best ones.   When they get bad ratings, they get relegated to the horizon league. 

At the end of each season do a fan survey.  Any official with name recognition gets fired.  We only know the names of the bad ones.

[CTWarrior]

Block/Charge is easy.  Advantage to the offense unless the defender has been there for at least a week.

This is 100% the fix.  Make it a block 80% of the time and the strategy stops.

EDIT:  Copied the wrong post initially.

[panda]

go to 6 fouls and the officials will call 20% more fouls and make the game 20% worse than it already is.

Block/Charge is easy.  Advantage to the offense unless the defender has been there for at least a week.

Officials must be professional and have better training and a grading system including the players and coaches after each game.  If coaches get fired after bad seasons, so should officials.  The best leagues should cultivate their own officials and the top leagues can pay more to get the best ones.   When they get bad ratings, they get relegated to the horizon league. 

At the end of each season do a fan survey.  Any official with name recognition gets fired.  We only know the names of the bad ones.

How'd you crunch the numbers on that one ?

[Scoop Snoop]

How'd you crunch the numbers on that one ?

[CTWarrior]

How'd you crunch the numbers on that one ?

The Big East experimented with 6 fouls for conference games in 91-92 and it was awful.  Much more physical play, more whistles and made the game worse to watch, and they eliminated the next season.  1 foul per 8 game minutes to foul out is what they do in the NBA and it makes sense for college, too.  I hate charge calls and I would be all four anything to cut back on those, maybe moving that semi-circle out further or just always calling it a block to stop it altogether.

I only played through high school , and I remember either my junior or senior year in high school 78-79 we started practicing drawing charges and I remember thinking then "What kind of chicken #%&@ is this?"  Felt like cheating then.  Challenge the shot at the rim, much more fun way to play and to watch.

[Scoop Snoop]

The Big East experimented with 6 fouls for conference games in 91-92 and it was awful.  Much more physical play, more whistles and made the game worse to watch, and they eliminated the next season.  1 foul per 8 game minutes to foul out is what they do in the NBA and it makes sense for college, too.  I hate charge calls and I would be all four anything to cut back on those, maybe moving that semi-circle out further or just always calling it a block to stop it altogether.

I only played through high school , and I remember either my junior or senior year in high school 78-79 we started practicing drawing charges and I remember thinking then "What kind of chicken #%&@ is this?"  Felt like cheating then.  Challenge the shot at the rim, much more fun way to play and to watch.

Jay Bilas would agree with this. He loves to talk endlessly in great detail not only about ref calls that he believes are erroneous, but in at least one game he must have ranted about sliding in front of a driving player at least four times. He kept saying that the rules had to be changed. Hopefully, the NCAA took notes and will bring in Bilas as a consultant.

OK, I have had my fun with God's Gift from Heaven Jay Bilas. His point is legit. It is really bad for the game. I hope it will eventually be addressed by the NCAA and action is taken to make this BS less of a factor.

[ATL MU Warrior]

You can't eliminate the charge call altogether. The number of out of control drives to the basket will increase without them and the games will get even harder to watch. There has to be a disincentive to that and the charge call, as frustrating as it can be, is it.

[Scoop Snoop]

You can't eliminate the charge call altogether. The number of out of control drives to the basket will increase without them and the games will get even harder to watch. There has to be a disincentive to that and the charge call, as frustrating as it can be, is it.

Fair point. Honest question- what disincentive do you suggest? I think losing possession is enough. Do you agree/disagree?

[The Sultan]

You can't eliminate the charge call altogether. The number of out of control drives to the basket will increase without them and the games will get even harder to watch. There has to be a disincentive to that and the charge call, as frustrating as it can be, is it.

Would it get harder to watch though?  There would still be offensive fouls called but not for secondary defenders who slide underneath.