Don't Hang Your Heads (Up your butts)

[oilcan]

I’m optimistic. When Markus graduated and the Housers left I knew we would we were two years away and then Dawson left and DJ left and the others left and everyone bailed left and right.

Smart came on board and  I knew MU was two years away. Still. Nothing has changed. We have some decent recruits. Players good enough to beat the Blue Jays on New Year’s Day.  Players who can compete in the Big East.

Not right now, but soon they will challenge Nova and Seaton Hall. The players are good enough and the coaching is not the problem. The coaching is there. We don’t need Tex Winter or Rick Majerus on the bench. Smart will not turn these kids into D Wades/ unless they have the ability to make plays as a team.

Kolek would look like Travis if other guys made baskets. I never expected Morsell to come in and score. I expected him to help the team learn how to play defense and push back and not fold against the scorers in the BE. Don’t ask him to do too much. He tried because it wasn’t there. BB isn’t run and gun.

It’s team ball and good passes into the post and making short shots and rebounding missing shots.  And making tip ins. Get up. Get up. Get it in. And get fouled. Discovering Oso is obviously a big deal. Oh my.

It will take time but don’t be discouraged.  I’ve seen this crap before. It won’t be shinola for ever. Trust me.

EDIT: PARAGRAPHS ARE YOUR FRIEND.

[Shooter McGavin]

Love the optimism oil can!

[Markusquette]

Correction: Kolek could look a little more like Diener if he made baskets. A lot more of them. I like Shaka and I like these guys, but I am worried it's going to be a few long seasons in the Big East at minimum. He's going to have to work some magic to fill the last to scholarships with some impact guys and also be active in the transfer market again. Agree on Morsell and Oso.

[oilcan]

You have to be optimistic if you're a sports fan. Everyone knows the hope and the disappointment. I finished 10th in my fantasy league this week. How weak is that? But next August, I'll be ready to draft again. I enjoy every minute of it. Go Packers.

[Johnny B]

off topic by why are the badgers at worst solid every year? their recruiting is mediocre on paper most years but here they are making the dance 19 out of like 20 years. on their way again this year. idk why we cant at be at their level.

[oilcan]

I know. I thought Kolek was going to come in and shoot the lights out. It will happen. I'm confident it will happen. But no, he's not Deiner.  Makes nice tricky passes in the lane though. I like him.

[CountryRoads]

off topic by why are the badgers at worst solid every year? their recruiting is mediocre on paper most years but here they are making the dance 19 out of like 20 years. on their way again this year. idk why we cant at be at their level.

It’s crazy how they always have players that make such a huge jump from one year to the next. They will lose Davis and Davison and next year out of nowhere Ben Carlson will average 20 a game.

[Viper]

off topic by why are the badgers at worst solid every year? their recruiting is mediocre on paper most years but here they are making the dance 19 out of like 20 years. on their way again this year. idk why we cant at be at their level.

100%. RED rolls. Every year. Nothing fancy. This version? Davis and a bunch of low-level recruits. Meanwhile, over in Milwaukee , a basketball-only school that’s been mediocre for a decade…and Oilcan preaches more patience. Ridiculous.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

100%. RED rolls. Every year. Nothing fancy. This version? Davis and a bunch of low-level recruits. Meanwhile, over in Milwaukee , a basketball-only school that’s been mediocre for a decade…and Oilcan preaches more patience. Ridiculous.

Well what choice do we have?  Getting mad on a message board isn’t going to do any good. Shaka is going to be given a long leash and plenty of time. This is what we signed up for.

[TedBaxter]

off topic by why are the badgers at worst solid every year? their recruiting is mediocre on paper most years but here they are making the dance 19 out of like 20 years. on their way again this year. idk why we cant at be at their level.

The simple fact is that they don't have players transferring out of the program so you have guys who have been in the program 4-5 years every year.  This year they don't have as much returning experience as normal, but Davis, Davison and Wahl have stepped up and Crowl and Hepburn have stepped in. 

Transfers have killed Marquette and many other programs over the years. 

[#UnleashSean]

100%. RED rolls. Every year. Nothing fancy. This version? Davis and a bunch of low-level recruits. Meanwhile, over in Milwaukee , a basketball-only school that’s been mediocre for a decade…and Oilcan preaches more patience. Ridiculous.

Did you expect Shaka to come in and light up the big east with the 3rd youngest team jn the ncaa? crap people made excuses for wojo for 6 years. Can we give Shaka 1?

[#UnleashSean]

The simple fact is that they don't have players transferring out of the program so you have guys who have been in the program 4-5 years every year.  This year they don't have as much returning experience as normal, but Davis, Davison and Wahl have stepped up and Crowl and Hepburn have stepped in. 

Transfers have killed Marquette and many other programs over the years.

Wisconsin has had plenty of players transfer

[Uncle Rico]

Wisconsin has had plenty of players transfer

Yeah, but all those kids lost their love of the game and wanted to focus on school

[dgies9156]

OK, I'm discouraged.

I don't disagree with Brother Oilcan that Shaka is the real deal and in a couple of years, we'll be a force with which to be reckoned. I trust Shaka, for now.

What bothers me is the close but no cigar moments we've had this year. Saturday just p*ssed me off to no end. There was no reason we should have lost. None. That's on coaching and on failure to execute. I love our Warriors and have been faithful for 50 years. I just don't remember the last time -- if ever -- the team aggravated me THAT much. Failures like last Saturday's are the kinds that cause fans to lose fandom.

I tend to agree with Brother Johnny B, who brings up the Badgers as a role model. They are consistently well-coached and use three-star talent to go sometimes deep into the tournament. Will the Rodents ever win a Natty? Doubtful with the talent Greg Gard gets. But, would I trade their last 10 years for ours? Absolutely.

Some of the difference between us and the Rodents is lack of consistency. We've had three un-related coaches in 10 years. They've transitioned within their program once. To that end, we better hope Shaka is the real deal. Otherwise, the more instability we have, the harder it will be to climb the mountain back to where many                  older Warriors think we ought to be.

[Viper]

Well what choice do we have?  Getting mad on a message board isn’t going to do any good. Shaka is going to be given a long leash and plenty of time. This is what we signed up for.

not mad, more-so frustrated at what’s happened. MU is a proud program. Fans, alums have passion for MU basketball.  Never expected this current coach to work a season 1 miracle. However, and as you are probably aware living in WI, our fall is made worse by the steady winning out of Dane County.

[tower912]

OK, I'm discouraged.

I don't disagree with Brother Oilcan that Shaka is the real deal and in a couple of years, we'll be a force with which to be reckoned. I trust Shaka, for now.

What bothers me is the close but no cigar moments we've had this year. Saturday just p*ssed me off to no end. There was no reason we should have lost. None. That's on coaching and on failure to execute. I love our Warriors and have been faithful for 50 years. I just don't remember the last time -- if ever -- the team aggravated me THAT much. Failures like last Saturday's are the kinds that cause fans to lose fandom.

I tend to agree with Brother Johnny B, who brings up the Badgers as a role model. They are consistently well-coached and use three-star talent to go sometimes deep into the tournament. Will the Rodents ever win a Natty? Doubtful with the talent Greg Gard gets. But, would I trade their last 10 years for ours? Absolutely.

Some of the difference between us and the Rodents is lack of consistency. We've had three un-related coaches in 10 years. They've transitioned within their program once. To that end, we better hope Shaka is the real deal. Otherwise, the more instability we have, the harder it will be to climb the mountain back to where many                  older Warriors think we ought to be.

Brother dgies, get old, stay old.     That is what Wisconsin does very well.    The years they don't are the years they struggle.

MU is not old.    While close losses are always frustrating, don't lose track of the fact that 8 of the 11 active players this year are in their first or second year.    Osa played 38 minutes all of last season.   OMP averaged 10 minutes a game for Clemson.    Kolek was in the A-10.    It is simply not logical to expect them to be a well oiled machine or as good as they will be as upperclassmen.       

[Scoop Snoop]

OK, I'm discouraged.

I don't disagree with Brother Oilcan that Shaka is the real deal and in a couple of years, we'll be a force with which to be reckoned. I trust Shaka, for now.

What bothers me is the close but no cigar moments we've had this year. Saturday just p*ssed me off to no end. There was no reason we should have lost. None. That's on coaching and on failure to execute. I love our Warriors and have been faithful for 50 years. I just don't remember the last time -- if ever -- the team aggravated me THAT much. Failures like last Saturday's are the kinds that cause fans to lose fandom.



I tend to agree with Brother Johnny B, who brings up the Badgers as a role model. They are consistently well-coached and use three-star talent to go sometimes deep into the tournament. Will the Rodents ever win a Natty? Doubtful with the talent Greg Gard gets. But, would I trade their last 10 years for ours? Absolutely.

Some of the difference between us and the Rodents is lack of consistency. We've had three un-related coaches in 10 years. They've transitioned within their program once. To that end, we better hope Shaka is the real deal. Otherwise, the more instability we have, the harder it will be to climb the mountain back to where many                  older Warriors think we ought to be.

This is pretty much where I am. I still have confidence in Shaka but also believe those here who question whether or not he's our savior have legitimate points.

 Saturday's loss haunted me for an entire day, and I pride myself in being able to move on after a loss and not brood over it but not this time!

We all hate the rodents but it's interesting to read that some here are giving the devil its due. About 2-3 years ago, some scoopers were laughing about UW giving Gard an extension, thinking that it was the beginning of the end of UW bball as a major power.

 I love oilcan's optimism but some of us, including me, struggle with the reality of where we are and where we have been for over eight years.

[MU82]

Projecting the previous 8 years onto Shaka, and the long-term program-building that he is trying to accomplish, is unfair and unproductive.

Buzz's last season and Hausershima and Wojo's worst seasons have nothing to do with Shaka.

I get it. I wish we were winning these close games. All 3 BEast games so far have been frustrating. I understand why some hate that patience is being "preached."

But what is the alternative? Is it time to assemble the rich alumni and get 'em to fire Shaka?

Right now, in Year 1 -- and that's what it is, not Year 9 -- patience and hope are all we have.

[Goose]

Scoop

We cannot change the past eight years of performance and can only look forward. IMO, we have shot the ball poorly and shot ourselves in the foot in three BE games, yet still had a chance to beat three good teams.
I am not a moral victory guy and pissed off that we lost, especially I have been saying for months the need to steal some games and they did not get that done the last three games. That being said, I wonder if all the naysayers believed going into those games that we would be in the game in last two minutes. If they can hang with the big boys with horrible shooting and rebounding that gives me optimism, they are on the right track.

[Shooter McGavin]

Scoop

We cannot change the past eight years of performance and can only look forward. IMO, we have shot the ball poorly and shot ourselves in the foot in three BE games, yet still had a chance to beat three good teams.
I am not a moral victory guy and pissed off that we lost, especially I have been saying for months the need to steal some games and they did not get that done the last three games. That being said, I wonder if all the naysayers believed going into those games that we would be in the game in last two minutes. If they can hang with the big boys with horrible shooting and rebounding that gives me optimism, they are on the right track.

Yep.  What Goose said.

[panda]

Brother dgies, get old, stay old.     That is what Wisconsin does very well.    The years they don't are the years they struggle.

MU is not old.    While close losses are always frustrating, don't lose track of the fact that 8 of the 11 active players this year are in their first or second year.    Osa played 38 minutes all of last season.   OMP averaged 10 minutes a game for Clemson.    Kolek was in the A-10.    It is simply not logical to expect them to be a well oiled machine or as good as they will be as upperclassmen.       

A top 5 player in the country hides a lot of their blemishes this year. But yes generally this is correct.

[Uncle Rico]

A top 5 player in the country hides a lot of their blemishes this year. But yes generally this is correct.

The rest of that team isn’t very good.  It’s role players like the current Marquette roster.  Someone will probably take a leap for them next year and that’ll happen here, too.

[panda]

The rest of that team isn’t very good.  It’s role players like the current Marquette roster.  Someone will probably take a leap for them next year and that’ll happen here, too.

Yep saying they’re good because they’re old this year is far from the truth. But generally, that is their path to success.

We need a guy or two to take a leap next year.

[Stretchdeltsig]

OK, I'm discouraged.

I don't disagree with Brother Oilcan that Shaka is the real deal and in a couple of years, we'll be a force with which to be reckoned. I trust Shaka, for now.

What bothers me is the close but no cigar moments we've had this year. Saturday just p*ssed me off to no end. There was no reason we should have lost. None. That's on coaching and on failure to execute. I love our Warriors and have been faithful for 50 years. I just don't remember the last time -- if ever -- the team aggravated me THAT much. Failures like last Saturday's are the kinds that cause fans to lose fandom.

I tend to agree with Brother Johnny B, who brings up the Badgers as a role model. They are consistently well-coached and use three-star talent to go sometimes deep into the tournament. Will the Rodents ever win a Natty? Doubtful with the talent Greg Gard gets. But, would I trade their last 10 years for ours? Absolutely.

Some of the difference between us and the Rodents is lack of consistency. We've had three un-related coaches in 10 years. They've transitioned within their program once. To that end, we better hope Shaka is the real deal. Otherwise, the more instability we have, the harder it will be to climb the mountain back to where many                  older Warriors think we ought to be.

You are spot on. I agree with how you feel. It blew my mind that Shaka blew the game on Saturday. Ruined my weekend and shook my confidence in him as a coach. So far there aren't signs of our players being coached up like the Badgers. Expected Shaka to do so. Lewis played listless on Saturday, especially in the first half. He played like he didn't care. He had no fire. So far, it hurts to watch this team. They can't shoot and play with little energy.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Little energy? What team are you watching Stretch?

[panda]

Little energy? What team are you watching Stretch?

Starting unit played with noticeably low energy on sat.

Overall this season it hasn’t been an issue.

[Goose]

Strech

Lose a lot of credibility when you say little energy. There are a lot of issues to discuss, but energy would not be on high on 99.9% of basketball fans list.

[Pakuni]

Little energy? What team are you watching Stretch?

It's not a fair criticism of the season as a whole, but they were definitely lethargic for the first 25+ minutes Saturday.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You people are drunk. Before the season started, everyone tried to tell you that this team wasn't very good on paper. The Big East coaches, the media, KenPom, T-Rank, Haslam, some of the more sane scoopers, all of them said that this team would likely finish towards the bottom of the Big East. Hell, Shaka said it every chance he got when speaking publicly preseason. The fact that we're not sub-500 right now is a testament to Shaka coaching up this roster. The fact that other than Bucky and Bonnies, this team has been in every game is also a testament to Shaka coaching this team up. We have one guy who was a high major starter before this season. The rest is a bunch of high major bench players, a mid-major starter, and a bunch of freshmen who were ranked 90 or lower...playing in a league full of teams that have been playing together for years and are supplemented by 24 year old men on COVID years. How anyone expected a top 5 conference finish is beyond me.

Shaka could have gone after immediate impact transfers, lord knows there was plenty of them. Instead, he went after a bunch of freshmen, young transfers, and two good but not great grad transfers to teach the youngings how to play defense. Shaka is zigging, while the rest of the basketball world is zagging. His strength as a coach is relationships and development. Maybe it blows up in the face of insta-transfers, we won't know for a little bit.

This doesn't mean Shaka is immune from criticism. He fooked up on Saturday. His offense doesn't match his personnel.  Rebounding is getting better but still suspect. But let's not dismiss our coach's strengths when he hasn't had the time to show them off yet.

[Uncle Rico]

You people are drunk. Before the season started, everyone tried to tell you that this team wasn't very good on paper. The Big East coaches, the media, KenPom, T-Rank, Haslam, some of the more sane scoopers, all of them said that this team would likely finish towards the bottom of the Big East. Hell, Shaka said it every chance he got when speaking publicly preseason. The fact that we're not sub-500 right now is a testament to Shaka coaching up this roster. The fact that other than Bucky and Bonnies, this team has been in every game is also a testament to Shaka coaching this team up. We have one guy who was a high major starter before this season. The rest is a bunch of high major bench players, a mid-major starter, and a bunch of freshmen who were ranked 90 or lower...playing in a league full of teams that have been playing together for years and are supplemented by 24 year old men on COVID years. How anyone expected a top 5 conference finish is beyond me.

Shaka could have gone after immediate impact transfers, lord knows there was plenty of them. Instead, he went after a bunch of freshmen, young transfers, and two good but not great grad transfers to teach the youngings how to play defense. Shaka is zigging, while the rest of the basketball world is zagging. His strength as a coach is relationships and development. Maybe it blows up in the face of insta-transfers, we won't know for a little bit.

This doesn't mean Shaka is immune from criticism. He fooked up on Saturday. His offense doesn't match his personnel.  Rebounding is getting better but still suspect. But let's not dismiss our coach's strengths when he hasn't had the time to show them off yet.

I agree with this analysis

[Scoop Snoop]

Scoop

We cannot change the past eight years of performance and can only look forward. IMO, we have shot the ball poorly and shot ourselves in the foot in three BE games, yet still had a chance to beat three good teams.
I am not a moral victory guy and pissed off that we lost, especially I have been saying for months the need to steal some games and they did not get that done the last three games. That being said, I wonder if all the naysayers believed going into those games that we would be in the game in last two minutes. If they can hang with the big boys with horrible shooting and rebounding that gives me optimism, they are on the right track.

Oh, I have no disagreement with any part of what you wrote. Of course the past is past. It's just been so long (other than a magical run in '18-'19 until it ended in disaster) that it is difficult to focus on better days ahead. Let's hope that starts tonight!

[tower912]

You people are drunk. Before the season started, everyone tried to tell you that this team wasn't very good on paper. The Big East coaches, the media, KenPom, T-Rank, Haslam, some of the more sane scoopers, all of them said that this team would likely finish towards the bottom of the Big East. Hell, Shaka said it every chance he got when speaking publicly preseason. The fact that we're not sub-500 right now is a testament to Shaka coaching up this roster. The fact that other than Bucky and Bonnies, this team has been in every game is also a testament to Shaka coaching this team up. We have one guy who was a high major starter before this season. The rest is a bunch of high major bench players, a mid-major starter, and a bunch of freshmen who were ranked 90 or lower...playing in a league full of teams that have been playing together for years and are supplemented by 24 year old men on COVID years. How anyone expected a top 5 conference finish is beyond me.

Shaka could have gone after immediate impact transfers, lord knows there was plenty of them. Instead, he went after a bunch of freshmen, young transfers, and two good but not great grad transfers to teach the youngings how to play defense. Shaka is zigging, while the rest of the basketball world is zagging. His strength as a coach is relationships and development. Maybe it blows up in the face of insta-transfers, we won't know for a little bit.

This doesn't mean Shaka is immune from criticism. He fooked up on Saturday. His offense doesn't match his personnel.  Rebounding is getting better but still suspect. But let's not dismiss our coach's strengths when he hasn't had the time to show them off yet.

    Well stated.   

[Goose]

TAMU

Great post. Shaka is why this team has a winning record and he did fxxk up on Saturday. My optimism for this year was 100% based off the Shaka factor and I think he has met expectations thus far. I still think he steals a few more and the final record looks much better than many on here feared. This is a flawed time, but not a flawed coach.

[Pakuni]

Seem to be a lot of people here arguing against nonexistent posters who believe this team should be ranked and atop the Big East.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Seem to be a lot of people here arguing against nonexistent posters who believe this team should be ranked and atop the Big East.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=62247.0

20% thought we would be a for sure NCAA tournament team. 75% thought we would at least be on the bubble. There have been plenty of posts that have said that we could finish in the top of the Big East.

[MU82]

Seem to be a lot of people here arguing against nonexistent posters who believe this team should be ranked and atop the Big East.

Well ... I don't know about being ranked and atop the BEast (as one who likes hyperbole himself, bravo), but ...

++ In the preseason poll, 46 Scoopers picked us to win 20+ games and make the NCAAT, including 9 who went with 25+. And 131 said we'd be "Team Bubble Watch." Add those up, and it's a majority who thought we'd at least have a shot at a tourney bid.

++ 5-Dollar Pitcher predicted 25-6 and an Elite 8 appearance. After we lost to the Bonnies, he said, "Still have them predicted to go 16-4 in the BEAST and an Elite Eight. If you can’t get on board with that - you’re the problem."

++ 9-9-9 said probably 25 times that he expected us to contend for a top-3 BE finish.

++ Goose predicted 20+ wins and an NCAAT bid, and went with 12-8 in the BEast before the conference part of the season started.

++ dgies predicted 21-8, apparently accounting for canceled Covid games.

++ brew said 11-9 in conference.

++ Viper, a Shaka critic, predicted 10-10 in conference.

++ And so on.

And all that's great. I love optimism. It's an essential part of being a sports fan, and it beats the hell out of whining and beyotching and sounding hopeless.

And who knows ... it might still happen.

We Are Marquette!

[Pakuni]

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=62247.0
There have been plenty of posts that have said that we could finish in the top of the Big East.

Can I see some of those posts saying MU should finish in the top of the Big East? I'm sure not seeing any in this thread or any recent ones (with all the drunk people you're referring to), but maybe some really old ones I've missed.

Expecting this to be a bubble team - which they were a couple of weeks ago, by the way - is not the same as "ranked and atop the Big East."

[tower912]

Can I see some of those posts saying MU should finish in the top of the Big East? I'm sure not seeing any in this thread or any recent ones (with all the drunk people you're referring to), but maybe some really old ones I've missed.

Expecting this to be a bubble team - which they were a couple of weeks ago, by the way - is not the same as "ranked and atop the Big East."

I just bumped the thread containing predictions.

[brewcity77]

What bothers me is the close but no cigar moments we've had this year. Saturday just p*ssed me off to no end.

It did that to me too. That said...

Lose big, lose close, win close, win big.

This season alone we've already suffered three big losses. Our last three losses were all close. At worst, we had the ball and a 1-point deficit in the closing minutes of the game. We aren't there yet, but we've stopped losing big and are now losing close. Maybe before the year is done, we start to win close and in the future can turn that into winning big.

People can dismiss the old "five years to judge" adage, but it feels pretty silly for any of us to be making sweeping judgments after 2 months.

[Pakuni]

I just bumped the thread containing predictions.

Yep, a whopping 9 out of 236 people who took part saw this as a team atop the Big East. The same number who believed they'd win 12 or fewer games.
The vast majority (3 out of 4) said this was a 12 to 19 win team. Which seems to be where they're headed. So, the vast majority had entirely reasonable and accurate expectations of the season.

But by all means, let's keep ranting about unrealistic expectations every time a winnable game becomes a loss because that somehow makes sense.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Can I see some of those posts saying MU should finish in the top of the Big East? I'm sure not seeing any in this thread or any recent ones (with all the drunk people you're referring to), but maybe some really old ones I've missed.

Expecting this to be a bubble team - which they were a couple of weeks ago, by the way - is not the same as "ranked and atop the Big East."

So literally no one, except you, has said "ranked and atop the Big East" in this thread. You completely made up that standard. I assumed your post was in response to mine which said "top 5 in the Big East", which is very different from what you wrote. Maybe you were responding to Unleash who said "light up the Big East" but that is also very different from what you wrote. No one else said anything about other's expectations. So in accusing others of "arguing against nonexistent posters"...you yourself actually started arguing against nonexistent posters.

The reason I linked the past thread was because 75% of posters said we would at least be a bubble team. Traditionally the 4th or 5th place team in the Big East is usually a bubble team. Usually on the right side of the bubble but a bubble team nonetheless. That's why I said top 5 in the Big East, expecting this team to be a bubble team by the end of the season was too high of expectations.

[FartyEightHours]

Seems like the MU admin has been drunk for a decade since buzz hire.

[rocky_warrior]

Seems like the MU admin has been drunk for a decade since buzz hire.

Honestly, buzz may have been their most drunk hire. Sure, it worked out great, but outside of a short stint at UNO, had done nothing to deserve the job.

[dgies9156]

++ dgies predicted 21-8, apparently accounting for canceled Covid games.

I did and I did. The basis for my optimism was I expected a lot from Kur Kuath and Darryl Morsell. I was hopeful that Tyler Kolak would hit at least a third of his three point shots and we wouldn't shoot ourselves in the foot the way we did Saturday. My view was that Morsell and Kuath would not come here to fill holes but legitimately viewed themselves as having a shot at an NCAA. Mix these guys in with Justin Lewis and the emergence one or more of our young guys and I thought we really had something.

 -- Kuath has been a disappointment. Hardly an upgrade from Theo -- good defense, no offense.

 -- Morsell started off like a world beater but cooled off faster than an alligator on an ice flow. He hasn't yet emerged as the team leader I'd hoped for.

 -- Kolak has been impressive, but not the way I thought. The guy is hard working, gutsy and an incredible spark plug for our team.

 -- The change in Oso, admittedly, has been impressive. I'm really high on him! This is my happiest takeaway from this year.

I admit, we could have done something akin to what Texas did -- reload with transfers and decommits. Had we done that, we'd be on our way and probably had at least one or two more wins.

Candidly, I know Shaka has his system and I hope it works. But I'm damn tired of system changes, overhauls and teams that are "young." I heard that when the previous Coach was at MU and we didn't win then. Maybe I'm cranky from a broken ankle (suffered a month ago) or because I'm old, but my patience is wearing thin. Saturday put me in full MU b*tching mode. As a former, famous Wisconsinite said, "Winning isn't everything... it's the only thing!"

Hope they prove me wrong and I'm happy as a gator who just caught a 30 pound fish by year end. But, damn, we're a long way from where we should be!

[Jay Bee]

Honestly, buzz may have been their most drunk hire. Sure, it worked out great, but outside of a short stint at UNO, had done nothing to deserve the job.

Take that back! He worked under the most distinguished coach in America!!! I4, aka Mr GAis#5

[Pakuni]

So literally no one, except you, has said "ranked and atop the Big East" in this thread.

You literally posted this three hours ago:
There have been plenty of posts that have said that we could finish in the top of the Big East.


Regardless of what you believe are reasonable expectations for the season, it's completely normal for people to come here after the team loses a winnable game (or any game) and talk about the reasons for the loss. That's part of the reason this place exists, I think.
I find it odd that some here continually try to shut down those discussions by saying (paraphrasing) those who thought this team should be doing better must be drunk, or just don't understand that Shaka's plan requires losing winnable games, or "Hey, did I mention for the 900th time this team is young?" or, worst of all, go cheer for another team.
It's OK, and entirely possible, to be on board with Shaka and still express some frustration with the recent results. I believe he has much higher expectations for this team than a lot of you do.

[MU82]

As a former, famous Wisconsinite said, "Winning isn't everything... it's the only thing!"

Arguably the greatest coach in NFL history, Vince Lombardi was 7-5 with no playoffs in his culture-building first season with the Packers.

Here's hoping Shaka does as well as Vince did from Year 2 on.

[Pakuni]

Arguably the greatest coach in NFL history, Vince Lombardi was 7-5 with no playoffs in his culture-building first season with the Packers.

He took over a team that went 1-10 the previous season. So, he brought about massive improvement his first year while also building his culture.
Someone forgot to tell him you can't do both, I guess.

[JakeBarnes]

Arguably the greatest coach in NFL history, Vince Lombardi was 7-5 with no playoffs in his culture-building first season with the Packers.

Here's hoping Shaka does as well as Vince did from Year 2 on.

Shaka already got us to 8 wins, so Shaka>Vince

[MU82]

He took over a team that went 1-10 the previous season. So, he brought about massive improvement his first year while also building his culture.
Someone forgot to tell him you can't do both, I guess.

No playoffs. Vince-Scooter-Rhodes-Blackbourn failed!

[dgies9156]

He took over a team that went 1-10 the previous season. So, he brought about massive improvement his first year while also building his culture.
Someone forgot to tell him you can't do both, I guess.

Comparing the Green Bay Packers to this year's Marquette team is absurd.

I might agree with you if Shaka had kept Dawson Garcia, DJ Carton and maybe Theo or Jamal Cain. When Lombardi came in, he had Paul Hourning, Ray Nitchkie, Boyd Dowler and a strong team that was poorly coached by ole Scooter. Lombardi came in and put the fear of God into the team and quickly made them live up to their talents.

Coach Shaka had to backfill much of last year's team. While I had high hopes for this year's team, I'm beginning to think I was way overly optimistic.

[Pakuni]

No playoffs. Vince-Scooter-Rhodes-Blackbourn failed!

The NFL playoffs back then consisted of the first place team in each division playing one game at end of the regular season.
I'm not sure it's the best comparison with a 68-team tournament, but run with it.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You literally posted this three hours ago:
There have been plenty of posts that have said that we could finish in the top of the Big East.

Pakuni, I said that after your initial post. When you accused others of arguing against non-existent posters, you were literally arguing against a non-existent poster.

You literally posted this three hours ago:
Regardless of what you believe are reasonable expectations for the season, it's completely normal for people to come here after the team loses a winnable game (or any game) and talk about the reasons for the loss. That's part of the reason this place exists, I think.
I find it odd that some here continually try to shut down those discussions by saying (paraphrasing) those who thought this team should be doing better must be drunk, or just don't understand that Shaka's plan requires losing winnable games, or "Hey, did I mention for the 900th time this team is young?" or, worst of all, go cheer for another team.
It's OK, and entirely possible, to be on board with Shaka and still express some frustration with the recent results. I believe he has much higher expectations for this team than a lot of you do.

I think you are attributing a lot that may have happened with other posters in other threads to the posts here. I have not tried to "shut down" discussions about why we lost the recent games. I literally wrote in this thread before your post that Shaka was not immune from criticism and listed a bunch of things that I am concerned by. No one anywhere has ever said Shaka's plan required losing winnable games (again arguing against non-existent posters). I think very few people have said to go cheer for another team, and I'm certainly not one of them. And yep, I have mentioned that the team is young. And? Why are you trying to shut down that conversation point?

And yes, I did say people were drunk. That was specifically in response to Stretch's post. I just find it amusing that all objective data could point towards "this team isn't very good on paper" but some instinctively blame the coach for not "coaching them up". Blaming the coach's recruiting (the J5 special), I totally get and somewhat agree with.

[Pakuni]

Pakuni, I said that after your initial post. When you accused others of arguing against non-existent posters, you were literally arguing against a non-existent poster.

I think you misunderstand what I'm arguing against. Which could be entirely my fault.

I think you are attributing a lot that may have happened with other posters in other threads to the posts here.

I think you are taking my comments as being directed exclusively toward you, when they're not. Again, maybe that's my fault.

No one anywhere has ever said Shaka's plan required losing winnable games (again arguing against non-existent posters).

There have been numerous posts after tough losses expressing how such defeats are a necessary part of The Process.

[muwarrior69]

It's our poor shooting that really is hurting. If we made just a 3rd of the shots we missed we would have won a few of those games, not to state the obvious.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think you misunderstand what I'm arguing against. Which could be entirely my fault.

I think you are taking my comments as being directed exclusively toward you, when they're not. Again, maybe that's my fault.

Fair. Mea culpa for misunderstanding.

There have been numerous posts after tough losses expressing how such defeats are a necessary part of The Process.

If you say so. I've seen plenty of posts about how rebuilds take a while and inevitably involve losing but can't say I remember one about it being "necessary". Necessary to me means that we must lose in order to win later which makes no sense.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Strech

Lose a lot of credibility when you say little energy. There are a lot of issues to discuss, but energy would not be on high on 99.9% of basketball fans list.

Goose

You have to admit that the team, especially Lewis, were not bundles of energy in the first half Saturday.

[Goose]

Stretch

15 minutes out 14 games of little energy. I will agree on the 15 minutes and will take the energy of the rest of the season for the next decade.

[MU82]

There have been numerous posts after tough losses expressing how such defeats are a necessary part of The Process.

I don't know if I said they were "necessary." If I did, it was a poor choice of words. "Predictable" would have been a better word. Tough losses were a predictable part of the process -- a process that Shaka himself described 1,000 times as one that wouldn't bring "instant gratification" to Marquette fans.

Believe me, I far prefer the kind of game we got tonight being part of the process. I'll happily take a dozen more of those!

[willie warrior]

Scoop

We cannot change the past eight years of performance and can only look forward. IMO, we have shot the ball poorly and shot ourselves in the foot in three BE games, yet still had a chance to beat three good teams.
I am not a moral victory guy and pissed off that we lost, especially I have been saying for months the need to steal some games and they did not get that done the last three games. That being said, I wonder if all the naysayers believed going into those games that we would be in the game in last two minutes. If they can hang with the big boys with horrible shooting and rebounding that gives me optimism, they are on the right track.

This was a big win for Shaka and the program
Let's now see if Shaka can follow up with some sustaining momentum with a good win at GT and some beyond.Above .500 rest of year would help