Rebounding

[MU82]

In each of our last two losses, our starting center has grabbed exactly 1 rebound. I know it's not his strength, but you'd think a P6 starting 6-10 center would accidentally get 3 or 4 boards.

Yes...but you have to be able to get the rebound to start the transition, so there's the rub.  I think MU should actually abandon the transition game in order to address the glaring weakness on defensive rebounding. 

Agree 100%. We need to send all 5 to the defensive boards. All the guards on our roster combined for 5 rebounds tonight. We can't have that. Shaka emphasized "all 5 to the boards" in the mic'd up game, so I'm guessing he has emphasized it many other times. And yet there's still too much standing and watching.

Love our team, and I think we can and will win NCAAT games despite it ... but it's hard to watch so many otherwise good defensive stands ruined by an inability to get the boards.

[Dr. Blackheart]

In each of our last two losses, our starting center has grabbed exactly 1 rebound. I know it's not his strength, but you'd think a P6 starting 6-10 center would accidentally get 3 or 4 boards.


Agree 100%. We need to send all 5 to the defensive boards. All the guards on our roster combined for 5 rebounds tonight. We can't have that. Shaka emphasized "all 5 to the boards" in the mic'd up game, so I'm guessing he has emphasized it many other times. And yet there's still too much standing and watching.

Love our team, and I think we can and will win NCAAT games despite it ... but it's hard to watch so many otherwise good defensive stands ruined by an inability to get the boards.

Martin+Sanogo = 30 rebounds (15 each)
KK+Oso = 3

[MU82]

Martin+Sanogo = 30 rebounds (15 each)
KK+Oso = 3

Hey, we had 1/10th as many ... you act like that's a bad thing!

[21Jumpstreet]

We are going to give up rebounds to bigger forwards, what drives me crazy is Morsell ball watching as his guy crashes the boards. Even if we want to not send five guys to the boards in order to start a quick transition, our guards can still throw a body into their guy on the perimeter. At the very least it might stall them just a bit getting to the hoop so our guys have a better chance of securing a rebound. Drives me nuts when opposing teams guards get offensive rebounds. Have to be mentally checked in every play.

[Daniel]

In each of our last two losses, our starting center has grabbed exactly 1 rebound. I know it's not his strength, but you'd think a P6 starting 6-10 center would accidentally get 3 or 4 boards.


Agree 100%. We need to send all 5 to the defensive boards. All the guards on our roster combined for 5 rebounds tonight. We can't have that. Shaka emphasized "all 5 to the boards" in the mic'd up game, so I'm guessing he has emphasized it many other times. And yet there's still too much standing and watching.

Love our team, and I think we can and will win NCAAT games despite it ... but it's hard to watch so many otherwise good defensive stands ruined by an inability to get the boards.

Yes heard Shaka say that is a huddle.   The question is, why does that not only not happen all the time, but why does it it never happen? 

[rocky_warrior]

I've heard that Shaka doesn't believe in practicing rebounding.  He leaves that for guys to work on their own.

[willie warrior]

I've heard that Shaka doesn't believe in practicing rebounding.  He leaves that for guys to work on their own.

The rebounding is definitely a huge hindrance. Shaka needs to bring in at least 2 bruisers for the future. Can he do that? Nonviolence yet.

[tower912]

Yes heard Shaka say that is a huddle.   The question is, why does that not only not happen all the time, but why does it it never happen?

He should tell them to rebound harder.   That would fix it.

[4everwarriors]

Rebounds no matta, hey?

[MUfan12]

Yes heard Shaka say that is a huddle.   The question is, why does that not only not happen all the time, but why does it it never happen?

You can send 5 to the boards, but their bigs move our skinny dudes and tap it back out to the perimeter. Happened twice on that mega-possession.

[Uncle Rico]

He should tell them to rebound harder.   That would fix it.

Porter Moser would tell them that.  Also, Shaka should yell more.  Yelling = results.  Might have a Shaka-Deane situation on our hands

[The Sultan]

Yes heard Shaka say that is a huddle.   The question is, why does that not only not happen all the time, but why does it it never happen? 

You don't want to send five to the boards all the time if you want to break the other way. Furthermore you can send five bad rebounders to the boards, but they are still going to be bad rebounders.

Rebounding is a skill like any other. No matter how much you practice, some are just going to be better than others. And experience means something.

[The Sultan]

Porter Moser would tell them that.  Also, Shaka should yell more.  Yelling = results.  Might have a Shaka-Deane situation on our hands

He needs to pick up more technicals too. That would fire up the team!

[Uncle Rico]

He needs to pick up more technicals too. That would fire up the team!

Have to wonder if Shaka has the fire to be an effective in-game coach

[Viper]

Other than Lewis, rebounding sucked. However, Morsell, Kolek, Jones, Oso shooting a combined 5-28 sucked too.

[Elonsmusk]

He needs to pick up more technicals too. That would fire up the team!

Breaking a whiteboard would certainly help.

[MU82]

You can send 5 to the boards, but their bigs move our skinny dudes and tap it back out to the perimeter. Happened twice on that mega-possession.

Yes, there will be times when you are in perfect position and all 5 go to the boards and you still don't get the defensive rebound. Sometimes the ball bounces funny, sometimes an offensive rebounder gets away with a subtle (or even not-so-subtle) foul, sometimes the shot was an airball so boxing out actually has a negative effect, sometimes an opponent just makes a great play.

But if the entire team on the floor has a rebounding mindset -- find a man, box out, attack the ball -- I'll take my chances on how the defensive rebounding goes over the course of a game.

We have been physically overmatched a few times, but not in most games. There are only so many Sanogos and Watsons in college basketball today, and even Watson did squadoosh against us the first game. Tyrese Martin is a good player, but he's hardly a bodybuilder; he averages 6 boards, not 15. Against many (maybe even most) opponents, we have enough size and strength. It's not only about the bigs; Lewis, O-Max and Morsell have the strength advantage over their opponents most of the time. Our players also have an inordinate number of rebounds just go through their hands, which is weird.

Rebounding is largely about positioning and "want-to." Given how hard our team plays in every other facet, I've been a little disappointed to see how often Morsell or Elliott or Kam stands and watches from 15 feet away or more; or how often Kuath or O-Max don't even try to find a body.

Obviously, we're not gonna be a good rebounding team this season, but we can still get better than we are.

[Superfan]

Probably the best rebounder of all time was Dennis Rodman who was 6'7" and about 220 lbs; not a big guy by NBA standards.  He studied intensely how the ball comes off the rim based upon where it was shot from and positioned himself for the rebound and boxing out.  The latter is a lost art in college hoops.  Moral of the story; you don't have to be a giant to dominate the boards.  It's a taught ( sometimes self taught) skill and mindset.

[brewcity77]

As I've said before, I don't expect this to get fixed this year. There are little things that might mitigate the problem. Teams that rebound the hell out of the ball are going to be tough matchups for us. UConn, Houston, Baylor, Kentucky, Purdue, those are just the kind of teams that make our lives difficult.

It was a bit disappointing to look last night and see the #2 Defensive Rebounder in the country was a grad transfer this year that played for Shaka last year -- Royce Hamm at UNLV. A wide-body that vacuums the defensive glass would really help this team. As it is, we need to mitigate offensive rebounds by standing strong in long defensive possessions and creating turnovers to make up the effective possession gap.

Honestly, as much as the rebounds hurt last night, if Morsell and Justin hit their FTs and one more of the open looks from deep we got falls, we probably have a chance to win or tie in the final minute. Even with things as they were, we still had the ball down 3 in the closing minutes of the game, so it's not like we didn't have the opportunity to overcome that deficiency. We've seen it work in the past and this team has been in position to win every game since UCLA.

So we live with it and hope our positives can overcome that negative. Going forward, we will lose Morsell and Kuath and have an open scholarship. Who knows about Justin and Greg, but both could potentially go as well. That means we can bring in 1-2 extra bodies that could help in that regard. Fardaws Aimaq, Jayveous McKinnis, there are guys out there that fit the bill.

[MarquetteDano]

Probably the best rebounder of all time was Dennis Rodman who was 6'7" and about 220 lbs; not a big guy by NBA standards.  He studied intensely how the ball comes off the rim based upon where it was shot from and positioned himself for the rebound and boxing out.  The latter is a lost art in college hoops.  Moral of the story; you don't have to be a giant to dominate the boards.  It's a taught ( sometimes self taught) skill and mindset.

I agree Rodman had a great nose for the ball,  but if he was a dumb rebounder he still would have averaged 9 boards a game.  The man could jump high and up and down like a pogo stick.

[The Sultan]

I also don't think it is easy to judge where a rebound is going to go.  A lot of that is instinctive and is gained only through experience.

[jfp61]

As I've said before, I don't expect this to get fixed this year. There are little things that might mitigate the problem. Teams that rebound the hell out of the ball are going to be tough matchups for us. UConn, Houston, Baylor, Kentucky, Purdue, those are just the kind of teams that make our lives difficult.

It was a bit disappointing to look last night and see the #2 Defensive Rebounder in the country was a grad transfer this year that played for Shaka last year -- Royce Hamm at UNLV. A wide-body that vacuums the defensive glass would really help this team. As it is, we need to mitigate offensive rebounds by standing strong in long defensive possessions and creating turnovers to make up the effective possession gap.

Honestly, as much as the rebounds hurt last night, if Morsell and Justin hit their FTs and one more of the open looks from deep we got falls, we probably have a chance to win or tie in the final minute. Even with things as they were, we still had the ball down 3 in the closing minutes of the game, so it's not like we didn't have the opportunity to overcome that deficiency. We've seen it work in the past and this team has been in position to win every game since UCLA.

So we live with it and hope our positives can overcome that negative. Going forward, we will lose Morsell and Kuath and have an open scholarship. Who knows about Justin and Greg, but both could potentially go as well. That means we can bring in 1-2 extra bodies that could help in that regard. Fardaws Aimaq, Jayveous McKinnis, there are guys out there that fit the bill.

Hamm was at 20 DR% under shaka for a reason. It is scheme based. They need to improve the rebounding it is no question, but it isnt as if this teams DRB% is significantly worst than his texas teams. He had two texas teams with worst DRB%.

Last nights game was more about the early defensive lapses, a slightly hot three point night from UCONN, throwing the ball away late, and us missing some free throws.

They'll get a transfer, and depending on his feel early next year Keeyan could make an early impact with his athleticism.  I wouldn't speculate on whole the transfer is, 10+ more coaches still will be fired. I'd look more at body types rather than rbd%. Fardaws wouldn't fit at all.

[MU82]

Last nights game was more about the early defensive lapses, a slightly hot three point night from UCONN, throwing the ball away late, and us missing some free throws.

So you're saying last night's loss wasn't at all about us getting brutalized on the boards? Not sure I'll buy that, though I agree with the other things you mentioned that also contributed to the loss.

[The Sultan]

When UConn went on their big first half run, it was about getting out in transition and absolutely torching the nets from three.  IMO Marquette could have handled the rebounding issue better had they clamped down on defense a little better to start.

[MuggsyB]

I agree Rodman had a great nose for the ball,  but if he was a dumb rebounder he still would have averaged 9 boards a game.  The man could jump high and up and down like a pogo stick.

There's really no point comparing guys to Rodman.  The guy was an absolute freak
of nature.  His leg strength, motor, and overall athleticism was as good as anyone in the history of the league.  Phil Jackson said he was best athlete he ever coached.  I've always wondered how good he could have been if he cared about offense and took care of himself off the floor.  He's the only guy I have ever seen who could legitimately guard all 5 positions at an elite level.