Vaccinations & Antibodies

[jesmu84]

Line of the day by the head of a health care organization holding a press conference about the lack of available beds and the burnout of his employees.....

"Get vaccinated or get COVID."

That doesn't align at all with what pace knows to be true

[Pakuni]

Probably just a coincidence ...

Since May 2021, people living in counties that voted heavily for Donald Trump during the last presidential election have been nearly three times as likely to die from COVID-19 as those who live in areas that went for now-President Biden. That's according to a new analysis by NPR that examines how political polarization and misinformation are driving a significant share of the deaths in the pandemic.
NPR looked at deaths per 100,000 people in roughly 3,000 counties across the U.S. from May 2021, the point at which vaccinations widely became available. People living in counties that went 60% or higher for Trump in November 2020 had 2.78 times the death rates of those that went for Biden. Counties with an even higher share of the vote for Trump saw higher COVID-19 mortality rates.

The data also reveal a major contributing factor to the death rate difference: The higher the vote share for Trump, the lower the vaccination rate.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/05/1059828993/data-vaccine-misinformation-trump-counties-covid-death-rate

[jficke13]

Well sure, reviewing 100k deaths and looking for data-based trends is one thing, but have you considered the possibility that many people are saying the exact opposite thing? Stop being such a nerdy-nerd and listen to this thing that some people are telling a person who has demonstrated their character for truthfulness thoroughly.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Probably just a coincidence ...

Since May 2021, people living in counties that voted heavily for Donald Trump during the last presidential election have been nearly three times as likely to die from COVID-19 as those who live in areas that went for now-President Biden. That's according to a new analysis by NPR that examines how political polarization and misinformation are driving a significant share of the deaths in the pandemic.
NPR looked at deaths per 100,000 people in roughly 3,000 counties across the U.S. from May 2021, the point at which vaccinations widely became available. People living in counties that went 60% or higher for Trump in November 2020 had 2.78 times the death rates of those that went for Biden. Counties with an even higher share of the vote for Trump saw higher COVID-19 mortality rates.

The data also reveal a major contributing factor to the death rate difference: The higher the vote share for Trump, the lower the vaccination rate.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/05/1059828993/data-vaccine-misinformation-trump-counties-covid-death-rate

Can you imagine Fox's messaging if Trump has managed to pull off his coup and was successful in subverting democracy?

They'd be promoting the "Trump vaccine" nonstop, telling their viewers how patriotic it is to get vaccinated and "save America" and how getting your booster was a great way to "stick it to the libs".

And the dopes would eat it up.

Instead, they are happily killing a small portion of their viewers in counties where they can afford to lose some votes as keeping their base in a state of perpetual resentment is far more beneficial politically.

[MU82]

Glad this dirtbag criminal, who was selling fake vax cards, got caught and likely will serve time.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article256376477.html?ac_cid=DM575568&ac_bid=-1728899883

[JWags85]

That story had everything, what a ride.

Also, COVID being misspelled is hilarious and the most Chinese knockoff thing ever

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I am starting to question that young man's judgment

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Maybe him and the waukesha lunatic can record an album together whilst in the slammer.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Maybe him and the waukesha lunatic can record an album together whilst in the slammer.

Ziggy’s been waiting a week or so to drop this one.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Ziggy’s been waiting a week or so to drop this one.

The article about the child molester/covid forger was posted today, so no.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The article about the child molester/covid forger was posted today, so no.

You are so desperate to be funny…and change the subject.

[tower912]

Pfizer booster provides protection against omicron.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Someone tell Pace...

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/wisconsin/articles/2021-12-02/wisconsin-covid-patients-packing-hospitals-no-omicron-yet

"Dr. Ashok Rai, president and CEO of Prevea Health said almost 20% of the beds in his health care system, which serves northeast and western Wisconsin, are taken up by COVID-19 patients. Virtually every patient is not vaccinated, he said.

“They are the ones not only using the highest amount of resources but staying the longest," Rai said. “Unfortunately our health care systems are overwhelmed right now.”

[MU82]

Someone tell Pace...

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/wisconsin/articles/2021-12-02/wisconsin-covid-patients-packing-hospitals-no-omicron-yet

"Dr. Ashok Rai, president and CEO of Prevea Health said almost 20% of the beds in his health care system, which serves northeast and western Wisconsin, are taken up by COVID-19 patients. Virtually every patient is not vaccinated, he said.

“They are the ones not only using the highest amount of resources but staying the longest," Rai said. “Unfortunately our health care systems are overwhelmed right now.”

Cue the posting of link from unreliably sourced article and/or article that doesn't say what chicos2 thinks it does in 3, 2, 1 ...

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Someone tell Pace...

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/wisconsin/articles/2021-12-02/wisconsin-covid-patients-packing-hospitals-no-omicron-yet

"Dr. Ashok Rai, president and CEO of Prevea Health said almost 20% of the beds in his health care system, which serves northeast and western Wisconsin, are taken up by COVID-19 patients. Virtually every patient is not vaccinated, he said.

“They are the ones not only using the highest amount of resources but staying the longest," Rai said. “Unfortunately our health care systems are overwhelmed right now.”

But that is not what some random nurse that may or may not be real said.

[pbiflyer]

Seems like some would be more comfortable in TN:

Tennessee Board of Medical Examiners Removes Covid Misinformation Warning

“Tennessee’s medical licensing board voted Tuesday to delete a policy opposing coronavirus misinformation from its website due to fears a powerful conservative lawmaker would otherwise dissolve the board and replace its members,” the Tennessean reports.

“The policy, unanimously adopted by the Board of Medical Examiners in September, establishes that doctors who spread demonstrably untrue information about Covid-19 vaccines could have their licenses suspended or potentially revoked. Members voted 7 to 3 to delete — but not rescind — the policy.”

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/health/2021/12/07/medical-board-deletes-anti-misinformation-policy-amid-gop-pressure/6416959001/

See no virus, hear no virus, there is no virus to speak of!!!!!

[forgetful]

Pfizer booster provides protection against omicron.

Interesting data coming out of the NYC comic-con (so similar to omicron), where a lot of those infected were fully vaccinated and boosted.

So it would seem that the vaccines are not providing great protection from infection/transmission. But all cases very mild, so protection against severe illness.

That is a great thing. Also, I'm optimistic this variant will be milder in general, but the risk is always that it gains new mutations that make it more severe.

[forgetful]

Follow up: The drastic reduction in efficacy of the vaccines and the corresponding decrease in affinity of neutralizing antibodies to the spike protein (up to 40x decrease) is not surprising given the location and number of mutations. I mentioned previously, that this was largely the cause for concern.

The intriguing aspect, though, is that those same amino acids (which are mutated) are super important for interaction with ACE2 to gain cell entry. It should also decrease the affinity of that interaction significantly. How the pathogenicity of this variant increased is intriguing and reveals that either dynamics of this interaction, or other compensatory factors are aiding pathogenicity. Which factors are dictating this is quite intriguing (and something we are looking into currently).

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Follow up: The drastic reduction in efficacy of the vaccines and the corresponding decrease in affinity of neutralizing antibodies to the spike protein (up to 40x decrease) is not surprising given the location and number of mutations. I mentioned previously, that this was largely the cause for concern.

The bolded above seems to conflict with the news from PFE today (yes, not exactly the most unbiased source) that their booster protects against the variant.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/pfizer-biontech-says-booster-protects-against-omicron/ar-AARBW5l?ocid=uxbndlbing

Isn't the booster formulation the same as the first two shots? Just a case of more vaccine works better than less?

EDIT: I guess the bolded doesn't exactly conflict with the story as I re-read it. Two doses does supposedly have a significantly decreased effect whereas 3 doses provides the same protection again Omi as two doses did against the original.

[jficke13]

The bolded above seems to conflict with the news from PFE today (yes, not exactly the most unbiased source) that their booster protects against the variant.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/pfizer-biontech-says-booster-protects-against-omicron/ar-AARBW5l?ocid=uxbndlbing

Isn't the booster formulation the same as the first two shots? Just a case of more vaccine works better than less?

EDIT: I guess the bolded doesn't exactly conflict with the story as I re-read it. Two doses does supposedly have a significantly decreased effect whereas 3 doses provides the same protection again Omi as two doses did against the original.

I don't think that's the thought process behind boosters. I think that in the immediate wake of challenge via booster, the immune system maintains a quantity of circulating antibodies. Eventually those fade, and you're left with memory-cell-mediated immunity. That means that after some period of time, when you're no longer walking around with circulating antibodies, you encounter the virus, the virus has a better chance of establishing a foothold infection while your memory cells fire up the antibodies to clear the infection. This leads to more breakthrough infections, but milder cases.

The booster shot just tops off those circulating antibodies and makes it less likely for an exposure to get a foothold, so to speak.

Similarly, I've seen reasonable proposed studies for 2-dose flu shots. Shot 1 in early October, Shot 2 in early January, hypothesized moa of maintaining that antibody-based immunity.

[tower912]

Pfizer and Moderna recommended the booster as their data showed reduced effectiveness over time.   Just as natural immunity wanes over time.   Pfizer says their booster jacks up the immunity enough to be effective against omicron.  To my meager logic skills, it seems fairly straightforward.   

I fully expect there will be annual or semi-annual boosters for the next few years.

[statnik]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/health/post-pandemic-stress-disorder-heart-conditions-covid-london-physicians-b969436.html%3famp

Post pandemic stress disorder causing heart problems in primarily a younger demographic, seemingly not as common among older adults?  Seems unlikely to just be caused by stress doesn’t it?

[SERocks]

Honest question, not trolling here.  Why do some diseases/viruses need boosters and others that we were vaccinated for in our youth do not?  I saw a post on twitter that said there is a difference between disease and virus.  What?  That made little sense.  Someone much brighter than I can hopefully clear this up for me.  TIA

[jesmu84]

Pfizer and Moderna recommended the booster as their data showed reduced effectiveness over time.   Just as natural immunity wanes over time.   Pfizer says their booster jacks up the immunity enough to be effective against omicron.  To my meager logic skills, it seems fairly straightforward.   

I fully expect there will be annual or semi-annual boosters for the next few years.

Personally, I have a tough time wading through the science vs finances here. It sure makes me look a little closer at the data when pharm CEOs are telling their shareholders how good their profits are gonna be because of boosters and annual vaccinations.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Honest question, not trolling here.  Why do some diseases/viruses need boosters and others that we were vaccinated for in our youth do not?  I saw a post on twitter that said there is a difference between disease and virus.  What?  That made little sense.  Someone much brighter than I can hopefully clear this up for me.  TIA

Most childhood immunizations consisted of multiple shots, occasionally with boosters.  For instance, the polio vaccine is a four shot regimen, DTaP is five, etc.