New Frosh Class at MU

[Goose]

Ziggy

Thanks for the laugh. Hards ain't doing anything out of principle when it comes to that business. He will take the money the run.

[real chili 83]

Isn't it actually the in-law's business?

[Goose]

real

It is some stupid Boomer that started and owns it. Does it matter which idiot Boomer started it?

[real chili 83]

LOL

[Galway Eagle]

I'm guessing there is now, but if not it should be that way.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Friend me on Facebook,  yo.

[The Equalizer]

We actually do OK in reading, but are indeed lagging in math. This has remained true despite an intense focus over the past two decades on standardized testing as a cure to all that ails our educational system.
And here's why ... American schools' math curricula sucks. It focuses on memorizing formulas and procedures - the kind of things you need to know for a standardized test - rather than how other countries do it, by teaching creativity, problem solving and critical thinking.
Here's a good read and a good podcast examining why American students are behind in math. You'll be shocked to learn it has nothing to do with your latest right-wing boogeyman.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2020/02/28/math-scores-high-school-lessons-freakonomics-pisa-algebra-geometry/4835742002/

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/math-curriculum/

Thanks for sharing--it validates the point I was trying to make.

Other countries based on similar tests outperform the US--so the problem obviously isn't either the tests themselves or the fact that students have to take them. 

So my point is to stop worrying about testing or the limitations imposed by trying to "teach to the test," and instead just teach so that kids understand the material--the test scores will take care of themselves.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'm sorry, I passed my logic class at Marquette, so I'm not following. What does Hards' family business have to do with educational policy?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I'm sorry, I passed my logic class at Marquette, so I'm not following. What does Hards' family business have to do with educational policy?

It was his anti-boomer diatribe that highlighted his hypocrisy.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It was his anti-boomer diatribe that highlighted his hypocrisy.

So, nothing to do with it?

Though, upon rereading Hards' post, he opened the door to other non-educational topics. Have at it.

[dgies9156]

Thanks for sharing--it validates the point I was trying to make.

Other countries based on similar tests outperform the US--so the problem obviously isn't either the tests themselves or the fact that students have to take them. 

So my point is to stop worrying about testing or the limitations imposed by trying to "teach to the test," and instead just teach so that kids understand the material--the test scores will take care of themselves.

I'm not an expert but I'll throw out my experiences as validation for the quality of the education against our peers in Western Europe.

When my daughter first arrived, we had a German au pair come to care for her for a year. She was an architectural student who took a year off and came from a fairly affluent German family and a good German educational system. In short, she and her community valued education.

One day she tuned in the History Channel and asked about World War II. We discussed it at length and she finally said to me, "Didn't the US declare war on Germany to free the Jews?"

Me: "Britta, have you ever heard of Pearl Harbor?"
Britta: "What's Pearl Harbor?"
Me: "Don't you understand, the entire defense of the Western World is built around an assurance Pearl Harbor will never happen again!"
Britta: "What happened?"
Me: "We were bombed in a sneak attack. We declared war on Japan and your country's government declared war on us three days later..."

She got a little snooty and asked me questions about German history and to name any three Chancellors of the Federal Republic. When I named five, she nearly fainted. The only President she could name was Clinton and JFK, who she linked to Marilyn Monroe.

My point is I don't think I'm unique. We're turning out very educated Americans by the carload, who know not just technical issues but understand our culture, our history and that of the rest of the world. We aren't perfect, as our debate has shown, but we do pretty well against the world. Look at the technological, cultural and scientific achievements by Americans. We lap the rest of the world several times over. That flag on the moon doesn't have a Union Jack, Rising Sun, Hammer and Sickle or Tri-Color in it.

[Billy Hoyle]

I'm not an expert but I'll throw out my experiences as validation for the quality of the education against our peers in Western Europe.

When my daughter first arrived, we had a German au pair come to care for her for a year. She was an architectural student who took a year off and came from a fairly affluent German family and a good German educational system. In short, she and her community valued education.

One day she tuned in the History Channel and asked about World War II. We discussed it at length and she finally said to me, "Didn't the US declare war on Germany to free the Jews?"

Me: "Britta, have you ever heard of Pearl Harbor?"
Britta: "What's Pearl Harbor?"
Me: "Don't you understand, the entire defense of the Western World is built around an assurance Pearl Harbor will never happen again!"
Britta: "What happened?"
Me: "We were bombed in a sneak attack. We declared war on Japan and your country's government declared war on us three days later..."

She got a little snooty and asked me questions about German history and to name any three Chancellors of the Federal Republic. When I named five, she nearly fainted. The only President she could name was Clinton and JFK, who she linked to Marilyn Monroe.

My point is I don't think I'm unique. We're turning out very educated Americans by the carload, who know not just technical issues but understand our culture, our history and that of the rest of the world. We aren't perfect, as our debate has shown, but we do pretty well against the world. Look at the technological, cultural and scientific achievements by Americans. We lap the rest of the world several times over. That flag on the moon doesn't have a Union Jack, Rising Sun, Hammer and Sickle or Tri-Color in it.

I had a German student who said he was going to sign up for History of WWII. I told him "you're about to learn a lot of things you never knew about!" Though to be fair, they now learn about WWII instead of the old "we all went on vacation between 1933-1945" approach.

However, as for your last point, that was 50 years ago. We'd never be able to do that today thanks to the Social Justice movement declaring Math as "racist." https://www.ocregister.com/2021/07/26/california-educators-battle-over-woke-math/  Instead, I've observed international students, especially Eastern Europeans, coming to US colleges and even with a limited grasp of English, significantly outperforming US students.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

However, as for your last point, that was 50 years ago. We'd never be able to do that today thanks to the Social Justice movement declaring Math as "racist." https://www.ocregister.com/2021/07/26/california-educators-battle-over-woke-math/  Instead, I've observed international students, especially Eastern Europeans, coming to US colleges and even with a limited grasp of English, significantly outperforming US students.

So...no where in that opinion article did anyone call Math racist as you claim. Nor did it go into any details of what this new curriculum advocates for. The only thing that it mentioned was that there is bias out there that assumes that female, Black, and Latinx students can't do math and the new curriculum seeks to address that. And they are correct, that bias does exist.

To be clear, I'm not advocating for one form of math instruction over the other. I haven't read the curriculum mentioned in the opinion piece or the "traditional math" curriculum already in place (how great is that they refer to it as traditional?). I have no idea which one is better. I'm just pointing out that the opinion piece you linked doesn't actually say what you say it does.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

So...no where in that opinion article did anyone call Math racist as you claim. Nor did it go into any details of what this new curriculum advocates for. The only thing that it mentioned was that there is bias out there that assumes that female, Black, and Latinx students can't do math and the new curriculum seeks to address that. And they are correct, that bias does exist.

To be clear, I'm not advocating for one form of math instruction over the other. I haven't read the curriculum mentioned in the opinion piece or the "traditional math" curriculum already in place (how great is that they refer to it as traditional?). I have no idea which one is better. I'm just pointing out that the opinion piece you linked doesn't actually say what you say it does.

Love that you are still using Latinx when most Latinos hate that word.  Liberal, white academics use that word.

Romance languages are gendered.  It's not bad, it is what it is. 

[Hards Alumni]

Says the guy that will inherit his boomer parents' business.  Or will you walk away out of principle?

Oh, we bought it.  Sorry to inform you.  I'm an outlier for my generation, and I'm right on the edge of being GenX.  The kids who graduated a year or two after me had it much more difficult.  I've been very fortunate, and I'm not afraid to admit it... unlike your buddy rocket.

Yet, the Millennials are the most educated and according to this, the wealthiest generation. Something must have gone right.

While there are downfalls in standardized testing, something must have improved versus the 3Rs the Boomers grew up in. You do realize we inherited dirt scrabble schools in the South and Appalachia, no Early Start programs, day care didn't exist. No equal opportunity laws or quotas. Segregation was the norm. There was a lot to fix.

China's education philosophy teaches student book smarts but they lag so much on conceptual thinking as it's all about The State.

The switch in US schools to teach math conceptually (the University of Chicago school), transformed how Millennials were taught, for example. Put it this way: The Chinese (using US technology) could give the world the Covid genetic map, the US had the mRNA technology to advance it into a vaccine.

I think we left things behind too like the seven liberal arts philosophy were students were exposed to and taught new challenge viewpoints. This was replaced with specialization and digital Johnson measuring. Lost was academic curiosity.

I am a believer that educational concepts are short lived (10 years) and serve their purpose. Philosophies should constantly change at the inflection points. We are in the middle of one for Millennial kids with the COVID kids. Let's see how things evolve, Big Boy, now that you are in the captain's chair.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-23/millennials-the-wealthiest-generation-believe-it

Lmao.  We have more networth because the stock market has been on a disgusting run for the last decade.  If you believe that bubble isn't going to pop, I've got a bridge to sell you.  We have more debt, don't own homes at the same pace as our parents, and the housing market is insane.

So, nothing to do with it?

Though, upon rereading Hards' post, he opened the door to other non-educational topics. Have at it.

Anecdotes are Ziggy's specialty; well, that and literally never adding anything to any conversation.  He just throws grenades.  Most kids grow out of this phase by their early twenties.

Ziggy

Thanks for the laugh. Hards ain't doing anything out of principle when it comes to that business. He will take the money the run.

Actually, we've expanded our fleet by 25% since we started running it a decade ago.  Keep the theories coming though! 

I'm surprised you guys don't know more about me by now... after having stalked me for the last two years.  Also pretty surprised at how I managed to trigger the entire "underboard" or "meat eaters" or whatever you guys are calling your bridge club these days.  The only two missing right now are rocket and keefe (LOL)... but I'm sure they'll show up eventually to try to pile on.

[Hards Alumni]

Love that you are still using Latinx when most Latinos hate that word.  Liberal, white academics use that word.

Romance languages are gendered.  It's not bad, it is what it is.

Hehehehe I actually agree.

[Uncle Rico]

Superbar

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Love that you are still using Latinx when most Latinos hate that word.  Liberal, white academics use that word.

Romance languages are gendered.  It's not bad, it is what it is.

Use of the word Latinx isn't about the Latino/a population as a whole.  It came from the LGBTQ+ community within the Latino/a community.  The "hatred" you describe is in many cases because of the connection to the LGBTQ+ community.

My use of the term is to be inclusive of LGBTQ+ community.  If I'm speaking to someone who I know identifies as Latino or Latina, I use those terms. I don't find it to be a burden to change the terms I use to match the person I'm talking tos preference.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Oh, we bought it.  Sorry to inform you.  I'm an outlier for my generation, and I'm right on the edge of being GenX.  The kids who graduated a year or two after me had it much more difficult.  I've been very fortunate, and I'm not afraid to admit it... unlike your buddy rocket.

Lmao.  We have more networth because the stock market has been on a disgusting run for the last decade.  If you believe that bubble isn't going to pop, I've got a bridge to sell you.  We have more debt, don't own homes at the same pace as our parents, and the housing market is insane.
Anecdotes are Ziggy's specialty; well, that and literally never adding anything to any conversation.  He just throws grenades.  Most kids grow out of this phase by their early twenties.


Actually, we've expanded our fleet by 25% since we started running it a decade ago.  Keep the theories coming though! 

I'm surprised you guys don't know more about me by now... after having stalked me for the last two years.  Also pretty surprised at how I managed to trigger the entire "underboard" or "meat eaters" or whatever you guys are calling your bridge club these days.  The only two missing right now are rocket and keefe (LOL)... but I'm sure they'll show up eventually to try to pile on.

Hot tip:  don't identify yourself with your username.

[Hards Alumni]

Hot tip:  don't identify yourself with your username.

Lol thanks for the advice old man.

Or, you guys could just not be creeps.

[Pakuni]

Thanks for sharing--it validates the point I was trying to make.

Other countries based on similar tests outperform the US--so the problem obviously isn't either the tests themselves or the fact that students have to take them. 

So my point is to stop worrying about testing or the limitations imposed by trying to "teach to the test," and instead just teach so that kids understand the material--the test scores will take care of themselves.

Maybe I'm misreading you, but you think this validates your belief that standardized testing and teaching to the test works because students in countries that don't do standardized testing or teach to the test do better on tests?
It would seem that it does the opposite of validating your belief. Countries that have more creative curricula and where "there's little high-stakes testing, leaving more time for instruction" are the ones doing the best.

No one is saying don't "just teach so the kids understand the material." I'm saying do teach so that kids understand the material ... and to do that, don't make a specific score on a standardized test given over a single day or two the entire goal of the learning process, or the sole factor in determining who knows what.

[4everwarriors]

I'm surprised you guys don't know more about me by now... after having stalked me for the last two years.  Also pretty surprised at how I managed to trigger the entire "underboard" or "meat eaters" or whatever you guys are calling your bridge club these days.  The only two missing right now are rocket and keefe (LOL)... but I'm sure they'll show up eventually to try to pile on.



Hey, donut leev me out. Eye'm still a member of dis exclusive klub, aina?

[Pakuni]

It's super creepy to spend even a second trying to figure out Scoopers' identities, you stalking motherf*ckers.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

It's super creepy to spend even a second trying to figure out Scoopers' identities, you stalking motherf*ckers.

Ok, Tim.

[WhiteTrash]

The idea that standardized test are worthless is great until you find out your hart surgeon or the person who engineered the plane your about to board scored an 18 on ACT.

These tests are flawed but not worthless.