Big XII and ESPN

[WhiteTrash]

It is interesting how the Big XII is claiming or has proof that ESPN is tearing apart it's conference after it did the same thing to the Big East.

I get this is all entertainment but ESPN has zero journalism integrity. I guess I'm just stating the obvious.

[Viper]

It is interesting how the Big XII is claiming or has proof that ESPN is tearing apart it's conference after it did the same thing to the Big East.

I get this is all entertainment but ESPN has zero journalism integrity. I guess I'm just stating the obvious.

Other than for F1, I no longer tune in.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It is interesting how the Big XII is claiming or has proof that ESPN is tearing apart it's conference after it did the same thing to the Big East.

I get this is all entertainment but ESPN has zero journalism integrity. I guess I'm just stating the obvious.

What does this have to do with journalism.

[WhiteTrash]

What does this have to do with journalism.

I remember when sports journalists used to be a real thing. I guess times change.

[Uncle Rico]

I remember when sports journalists used to be a real thing. I guess times change.

The E stands for entertainment

[4everwarriors]

I remember when sports journalists used to be a real thing. I guess times change.

It all changed wen Nads took his kurtain kall, aina?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I remember when sports journalists used to be a real thing. I guess times change.

What does ESPN's television rights have to do with journalism?

Hint:  It doesn't.  Completely a business decision.

[GoldenWarrior11]

ESPN wants the best games possible which are going to produce the largest viewership possible. That’s ESPN’s goal because that’s how ESPN makes money.  Pretty simple as that.

ESPN cut the fat with the old Big East.  It absolutely and unequivocally orchestrated moves behind the scenes; but again, they aren’t cherry picking favorites out of a hat - they are following viewership and brand value.  The Big 12 is simply living through the chaos we lived through a decade ago.  Ten years from now, it will be the ACC feeling the wraith from the House of Mouse.

[Herman Cain]

It makes good business sense for ESPN for the Big 12 and AAC to merge and operate under the name Big 12. AAC TV rights were acquired for peanuts by ESPN in the latest round of contract renewals . A reformulated Big 12 will have some nice media market presence .

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I remember when sports journalists used to be a real thing. I guess times change.

You know ESPN is an entertainment company,  not a journalistic entity correct? Unless you think FOX is a journalistic entity because they have some news shows on their channel.

[WhiteTrash]

You know ESPN is an entertainment company,  not a journalistic entity correct? Unless you think FOX is a journalistic entity because they have some news shows on their channel.

I never mentioned FOX, and was thinking of a time before FOX even was formed.

My main point is that ESPN is pulling the strings behind the scenes and not just reporting and showing games.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I never mentioned FOX, and was thinking of a time before FOX even was formed.

I know you didn't bring up FOX. I did. I was saying that calling ESPN a journalistic  entity is like calling FOX a journalistic entity. They aren't journalists. They are entertainers.

My main point is that ESPN is pulling the strings behind the scenes and not just reporting and showing games.

Of course they are. That's what entertainment companies do. Their job is to get as much quality programming as possible. It's beautiful capitalism.

[willie warrior]

I know you didn't bring up FOX. I did. I was saying that calling ESPN a journalistic  entity is like calling FOX a journalistic entity. They aren't journalists. They are entertainers.

Of course they are. That's what entertainment companies do. Their job is to get as much quality programming as possible. It's beautiful capitalism.

Except Espns talking heads are far from entertainers. Unless you find hypocrisy entertaining. Turned off their hogwash 2 years ago.

[Uncle Rico]

Except Espns talking heads are far from entertainers. Unless you find hypocrisy entertaining. Turned off their hogwash 2 years ago.

I’m sure they’re devastated

[real chili 83]

I know you didn't bring up FOX. I did. I was saying that calling ESPN a journalistic  entity is like calling FOX a journalistic entity. They aren't journalists. They are entertainers.

Of course they are. That's what entertainment companies do. Their job is to get as much quality programming as possible. It's beautiful capitalism.

You are dead on with that.  Fox and ESPN are purely entertainment.  Same goes for CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, NY Times, etc, etc. 

[Pakuni]

I never mentioned FOX, and was thinking of a time before FOX even was formed.

My main point is that ESPN is pulling the strings behind the scenes and not just reporting and showing games.

You've created a false narrative in which ESPN exists only to report and show games, and then attacked it for not living up to that false narrative.
ESPN is a content producer, not a journalistic entity.  Some of their content is journalism, but the large majority is not 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You are dead on with that.  Fox and ESPN are purely entertainment.  Same goes for CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, NY Times, etc, etc.

You and I are not on the same page. ESPN and Fox are not journalists because journalism is only a small part of their business, not their main focus. All the others you listed are journalistic entities as it is their main focus.

[willie warrior]

I’m sure they’re devastated

Probably not. But it is great that they have a stalwart like you in bed with their brand of pc bull. Spoken like a true advocate for their crock.

[Uncle Rico]

Probably not. But it is great that they have a stalwart like you in bed with their brand of pc bull. Spoken like a true advocate for their crock.

It’s pretty simple to turn the channel when sports aren’t on. 

[CTWarrior]

It’s pretty simple to turn the channel when sports aren’t on.

Exactly, I've long come to terms with the fact that I am not their target audience, despite being a devout sports fan, and I do not watch their networks unless my favorite team in whatever sport is playing on it.  I did enjoy their 30 for 30 series, though.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

You and I are not on the same page. ESPN and Fox are not journalists because journalism is only a small part of their business, not their main focus. All the others you listed are journalistic entities as it is their main focus.

Msnbc and CNN are journalistic entities?

You should do stand up comedy.

[jficke13]

Msnbc and CNN are journalistic entities?

You should do stand up comedy.

yay, discourse about who is and is not a *real* journalist. I bet this is gonna be enlightening.

[Pakuni]

yay, discourse about who is and is not a *real* journalist. I bet this is gonna be enlightening.

I'm gonna guess the "realness" of the journalism depends mostly on how much it affirms one's beliefs.

[rocky_warrior]

I'm gonna guess the "realness" of the journalism depends mostly on how much it affirms one's beliefs.

I'll go ahead an send this snowball down the cliff... By that criteria the church is a "real" journalistic entity to many.

[dgies9156]

OK gang, time for a reality check.

1) ESPN produces journalistic content. It's 30 for 30 series is pretty good, as was the Last Dance documentary on Michael Jordan and the Bulls. SportsCenter is a news program that represents news of the day in sports.

2) Having journalistic content does not make ESPN a journalistic endeavor in full. No more so than CBS, NBC and ABC are journalistic endeavors in full. None are. ESPN's game-day rights are entertainment.

3) Maybe ESPN had a behind the scenes roll, but from everything I've read, Texas particularly is pretty aggravated at the Big 12 and wants more and better revenue. From Texas' standpoint, who would you rather play every week -- Alabama, LSU, Texas A&M, Florida and Georgia or Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Oklahoma State, Baylor etc. I know which one is more likely to fill Longhorn Stadium.

4) The Big East wasn't just broken up by ESPN. The original schools and subsequent add-ons that were football powers, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Cincinnati, UConn Notre Who? and Loserville, wanted a home where their football programs would be accepted, not just tolerated. The Big East would NEVER be a football conference. While a couple of these schools had notable football teams (excluding Notre Who? that was not a part of the conference in football), playing each other was not going to elevate their programs to Power 5 status. UConn came back because its football was hopeless.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

3) Maybe ESPN had a behind the scenes roll,

Sourdough?  That would be my choice.

[cheebs09]

I thought the role ESPN played was convinced Syracuse and Pitt to get the BE schools to turn down the soon to be finalized deal with ESPN and then get an invite from the ACC for a better deal. That set the dominoes in motion.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Msnbc and CNN are journalistic entities?

You should do stand up comedy.

Yes they are. Their primary purpose is report on news. You may not agree with the slant they take but that doesn't change what they are. I didn't comment at all on the quality of the journalism.

[real chili 83]

I'm gonna guess the "realness" of the journalism depends mostly on how much it affirms one's beliefs.

Paukni, I couldn't agree with you more. 

My opinion, both Fox and MNSBC are both garbage, or at least not real journalism.  Do they both find a nugget here and there....of course.  But that's about it.

Tying this into the OP's original point, ESPN is mostly just entertainment. 

If you want some real garbage, read the Sunday sports section of the SB Tribune.  That's some world class slurping.   

[GoldenWarrior11]

It makes good business sense for ESPN for the Big 12 and AAC to merge and operate under the name Big 12. AAC TV rights were acquired for peanuts by ESPN in the latest round of contract renewals . A reformulated Big 12 will have some nice media market presence .

In realignment, all moves roll downhill.  The Big 12 will poach the valuable pieces from the American; the American will poach from C-USA; C-USA will poach from Sun Belt; and the Sun Belt will likely look to the high FCS ranks to promote from. 

It actually doesn't make sense for the Big 12 to fully absorb the AAC, because there are high-value properties and low-value properties in the conference.  The Big 12 will take top-valued programs in the AAC.  Not only is there not additional value in taking a Tulsa, an ECU, a Tulane, etc., but it also creates more mouths to feed and essentially creates a new faction within the conference that Presidents/ADs will surely avoid. 

Cincinnati is a near certainty to be gone to the Big 12; Houston and UCF are also possible, if not likely as well.  If I'm schools like Memphis and SMU, solid programs in the AAC, but not valuable enough to be get a golden ticket out, I'm trembling in fear like UConn, Cincinnati and USF all were in 2011.  It's possible that they get stuck rebuilding the AAC with the likes of UAB, Marshall and other C-USA call-ups. 

[Scoop Snoop]

I thought the role ESPN played was convinced Syracuse and Pitt to get the BE schools to turn down the soon to be finalized deal with ESPN and then get an invite from the ACC for a better deal. That set the dominoes in motion.

I remember something along those lines as well. ESPN did not create the basketball-football tension in the Big East but they took the opportunity to gain from it.

[brewcity77]

Thank god the next generation has greater media literacy than the last one.

[Lennys Tap]

I remember something along those lines as well. ESPN did not create the basketball-football tension in the Big East but they took the opportunity to gain from it.

As Mayor Daley famously said during the 1968 Democratic Convention, “The police are not here to create disorder. They’re here to preserve it”.

[harryp]

Article in AZ Star today urges a merger between PAC 12 and Big10 with TV rights to CBS. Possible?

[Herman Cain]

In realignment, all moves roll downhill.  The Big 12 will poach the valuable pieces from the American; the American will poach from C-USA; C-USA will poach from Sun Belt; and the Sun Belt will likely look to the high FCS ranks to promote from. 

It actually doesn't make sense for the Big 12 to fully absorb the AAC, because there are high-value properties and low-value properties in the conference.  The Big 12 will take top-valued programs in the AAC.  Not only is there not additional value in taking a Tulsa, an ECU, a Tulane, etc., but it also creates more mouths to feed and essentially creates a new faction within the conference that Presidents/ADs will surely avoid. 

Cincinnati is a near certainty to be gone to the Big 12; Houston and UCF are also possible, if not likely as well.  If I'm schools like Memphis and SMU, solid programs in the AAC, but not valuable enough to be get a golden ticket out, I'm trembling in fear like UConn, Cincinnati and USF all were in 2011.  It's possible that they get stuck rebuilding the AAC with the likes of UAB, Marshall and other C-USA call-ups.

I agree there would be a some kind of push down of the some or all of the schools you outline in this scenario

[WhiteTrash]

Article in AZ Star today urges a merger between PAC 12 and Big10 with TV rights to CBS. Possible?

If the Big10 and PAC 12 could make that work then why couldn't the Big East add Gonzaga? You can't travel much further than Rutgers to UCLA.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

If the Big10 and PAC 12 could make that work then why couldn't the Big East add Gonzaga? You can't travel much further than Rutgers to UCLA.

Because in the case of adding Gonzaga, they would have to travel 1,000+ miles for every road game - nine or ten in total.  A Big Ten / Pac 12 merger would likely involve a couple of cross over games that would require such travel, but wouldn't be a regular thing.

[The Equalizer]

If the Big10 and PAC 12 could make that work then why couldn't the Big East add Gonzaga? You can't travel much further than Rutgers to UCLA.

The article merely suggesting pursuing a non-conference scheduling alliance with the Big 10, similar to the Gavitt Games or our current Big 12 agreement:

https://tucson.com/sports/pac-12-hotline/pac-12-survival-guide-heres-what-the-conference-must-do-as-realignment-roils-the-landscape/article_45f70b78-f1ce-11eb-ae8f-37e1b3624e21.html

[Silkk the Shaka]

I'm gonna guess the "realness" of the journalism depends mostly on how much it affirms one's beliefs.

The reality is that none of them are. Incidentally they might have some solid primary reporting on occasion, but corporate media either exists mainly as a mouthpiece for its billionaire ownership or secondarily as a profit engine which necessarily prioritizes sensationalism and ridiculous slant above all else.

[real chili 83]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  +1 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[MarquetteDano]

Journalism aside,  I don't know why so many here are given a shrug as it relates to ESPN.

If ESPN decided that they could make more money by ensuring Villanova would never win a NCAA Title again,  and we had concrete proof and them putting things in place to ensure Nova had a more difficult time winning a title,  would people have a problem with that?

It seems like them tampering with conferences is A-Ok with many here and that shocks me.  I guess we all have become immune to these things.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Journalism aside,  I don't know why so many here are given a shrug as it relates to ESPN.

If ESPN decided that they could make more money by ensuring Villanova would never win a NCAA Title again,  and we had concrete proof and them putting things in place to ensure Nova had a more difficult time winning a title,  would people have a problem with that?

It seems like them tampering with conferences is A-Ok with many here and that shocks me.  I guess we all have become immune to these things.

Your example would be wrong, but it isn’t what they are doing. 

The primary motivation of conferences has become television deals. I guess I don’t blame ESPN for that reality. 

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Your example would be wrong, but it isn’t what they are doing. 

The primary motivation of conferences has become television deals. I guess I don’t blame ESPN for that reality.

ESPN's motivation is "cost savings". 
If we give Conference A (X) more dollars then we can completely dump the contract with Conference B and save (Y) more dollars when they have to renegotiate with less members.

[The Equalizer]

ESPN's motivation is "cost savings". 
If we give Conference A (X) more dollars then we can completely dump the contract with Conference B and save (Y) more dollars when they have to renegotiate with less members.

I don't think its cost savings--it's ratings (and therefore ad revenue) growth. 

If the best teams leave Conference B and join Conference A, we'll renegotiate with A and drop B.   And we expect it to cost us more for Conference A alone than we used to pay for A & B combined.   But we'll get more marketable matchups to fill our limited available airtime, therefore our ad revenue will grow.

[WhiteTrash]

Big XII and PAC 12 entering into discussions.   

[Dr. Blackheart]

Big XII and PAC 12 entering into discussions.   

Poor West Virginia.The cost for used couches just went up.

[brewcity77]

Because in the case of adding Gonzaga, they would have to travel 1,000+ miles for every road game - nine or ten in total.  A Big Ten / Pac 12 merger would likely involve a couple of cross over games that would require such travel, but wouldn't be a regular thing.

I'm not advocating for Gonzaga, but if you add them, you likely schedule them so they travel no more than 4 times during the regular season. Batch games so they get 2-3 road conference games each time they travel.

It's not ideal, but they're in Spokane, nothing is ideal. It's well over 1,000 miles to Pepperdine, LMU, and San Diego. I believe Portland is the only WCC school less than 700 miles away. If conference play starts in December, scheduling 2 big road trips during winter break where they get 6 of their road conference games done could mean just 2 more trips with 2 games each before the BET. Make those Thursday/Saturday and it's actually pretty doable.

Not saying we should, but if you're creative, it's really not that much more difficult than their current conference.

[willie warrior]

It’s pretty simple to turn the channel when sports aren’t on.

Are you really that dense with that lame response? I said that in prior post which you smart alecky responded to. Must be great for you that I live rent free in your head.

[muwarrior69]

As I said earlier. They should form one super conference which puts them in the driver seat, not the TV networks; especially if its about the money.

[Uncle Rico]

Are you really that dense with that lame response? I said that in prior post which you smart alecky responded to. Must be great for you that I live rent free in your head.

So, you still watch ESPN for sporting events?  You’re really showing them

[Scoop Snoop]

I'm not advocating for Gonzaga, but if you add them, you likely schedule them so they travel no more than 4 times during the regular season. Batch games so they get 2-3 road conference games each time they travel.

It's not ideal, but they're in Spokane, nothing is ideal. It's well over 1,000 miles to Pepperdine, LMU, and San Diego. I believe Portland is the only WCC school less than 700 miles away. If conference play starts in December, scheduling 2 big road trips during winter break where they get 6 of their road conference games done could mean just 2 more trips with 2 games each before the BET. Make those Thursday/Saturday and it's actually pretty doable.

Not saying we should, but if you're creative, it's really not that much more difficult than their current conference.

I thought that the NCAA did not allow a "basketball only" conference member (yet they allow FB only-go figure) so how would Gonzaga's other athletic teams survive? I get not adding the Zags but I wish they would schedule a couple of BE teams like Nova and UCONN for their OOC.

Edit: While it would be only one road trip for each BE bball team, I doubt that BE teams would be happy about the additional expenses of their non revenue teams going to Spokane.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I'm not advocating for Gonzaga, but if you add them, you likely schedule them so they travel no more than 4 times during the regular season. Batch games so they get 2-3 road conference games each time they travel.

It's not ideal, but they're in Spokane, nothing is ideal. It's well over 1,000 miles to Pepperdine, LMU, and San Diego. I believe Portland is the only WCC school less than 700 miles away. If conference play starts in December, scheduling 2 big road trips during winter break where they get 6 of their road conference games done could mean just 2 more trips with 2 games each before the BET. Make those Thursday/Saturday and it's actually pretty doable.

Not saying we should, but if you're creative, it's really not that much more difficult than their current conference.

Its quite a bit different than their current conference.  Gonzaga's longest road trip now is to San Diego - about 1,650 miles.  It's shortest in the Big East would be to Omaha - 1,800 miles.  The average road trip for them in the WCC is about 1,200 miles.  In the Big East it would be just under 3,000.

Sure you could string together a couple trips over a week and a half, but that instantly becomes more expensive and harder on the student athlete.  Furthermore they would be playing all of their road games two or three hours ahead of Pacific Time.  Whereas now, all of their games are in their home time zone other than Brigham Young.

[brewcity77]

Its quite a bit different than their current conference.  Gonzaga's longest road trip now is to San Diego - about 1,650 miles.  It's shortest in the Big East would be to Omaha - 1,800 miles.  The average road trip for them in the WCC is about 1,200 miles.  In the Big East it would be just under 3,000.

Sure you could string together a couple trips over a week and a half, but that instantly becomes more expensive and harder on the student athlete.  Furthermore they would be playing all of their road games two or three hours ahead of Pacific Time.  Whereas now, all of their games are in their home time zone other than Brigham Young.

I don't think it will ever come about, but with a conference schedule that starts in December, it's a lot more viable. Another big difference is Gonzaga only plays a 16-game conference schedule, often scheduling road or neutral court games to make up for the lack of WCC quality. They are already traveling more than they're getting credit for, they just do it in non-con.

The WCC shrunk their conference slate which will likely lead to more and longer travel for Gonzaga. They are playing neutral court games in New York and Arizona, road games in North Carolina and Texas, on top of regularly traveling to play Pac 12 opponents.

They have a month period or so from mid-December to mid-January where they could get 7-8 games in while on winter break. If even 4 of those are East Coast road games (SJU, UConn, SHU, PC for example), that would potentially leave two weekend trips where they could play 2 games each. Nova and GT one weekend, X and Butler another, everything else is central or earlier time zones.

[MarquetteDano]

I don't think it will ever come about, but with a conference schedule that starts in December, it's a lot more viable. Another big difference is Gonzaga only plays a 16-game conference schedule, often scheduling road or neutral court games to make up for the lack of WCC quality. They are already traveling more than they're getting credit for, they just do it in non-con.

The WCC shrunk their conference slate which will likely lead to more and longer travel for Gonzaga. They are playing neutral court games in New York and Arizona, road games in North Carolina and Texas, on top of regularly traveling to play Pac 12 opponents.

They have a month period or so from mid-December to mid-January where they could get 7-8 games in while on winter break. If even 4 of those are East Coast road games (SJU, UConn, SHU, PC for example), that would potentially leave two weekend trips where they could play 2 games each. Nova and GT one weekend, X and Butler another, everything else is central or earlier time zones.

I have to admit,  this is making me salivate at even the long shot potential of Gonzaga joining.