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Author Topic: Vaccine Passports  (Read 10504 times)

MUfan12

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Vaccine Passports
« on: March 29, 2021, 09:10:34 AM »
Curious to hear what people think about this. https://www.axios.com/covid-vaccine-passport-companies-private-biden-930dae66-8c70-48c2-a3dd-fea6ab4a155b.html

Personally, I'm against this, and am stunned that a Democratic administration hasn't thought about the inequities this will perpetuate.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2021, 09:13:33 AM »
Im for it from a "this is our way through the pandemic" POV. I'm against it for the issues it will bring to the surface.
Maigh Eo for Sam

GooooMarquette

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2021, 09:23:32 AM »
Ordinarily I would be totally against something like this, precisely because it highlights socioeconomic inequities.

But this is not an ordinary time, and if we want to get back to some semblance of ordinary, an extraordinary step like this might be appropriate. If we get up to 80% vaccinated (including kids), I would say otherwise, but it will be a long time before we get anywhere close to that.

MUfan12

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2021, 09:32:31 AM »
Ordinarily I would be totally against something like this, precisely because it highlights socioeconomic inequities.

But this is not an ordinary time, and if we want to get back to some semblance of ordinary, an extraordinary step like this might be appropriate. If we get up to 80% vaccinated (including kids), I would say otherwise, but it will be a long time before we get anywhere close to that.

I guess for me it depends on the usage. Travel? Sure. Even large events I could see. Anything beyond that I think gets dicey.

tower912

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2021, 09:34:54 AM »
If I wanted to travel internationally, I could see the benefit.    Other than that, meh.    Wait until enough are vaccinated and all go together.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

injuryBug

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2021, 09:39:47 AM »
If I wanted to travel internationally, I could see the benefit.    Other than that, meh.    Wait until enough are vaccinated and all go together.

What is enough?  70% is the number i hear.  What if 35% are against the vaccine is the past year the new normal.  At some point we need to move on with or without this passport.  If you do not want to get vaccinated that is your choice but it should not stop the rest of us from getting back to normal

GooooMarquette

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2021, 09:41:20 AM »
If I wanted to travel internationally, I could see the benefit.    Other than that, meh.    Wait until enough are vaccinated and all go together.



But epidemiologists think 'enough' is somewhere in the 70-80% range. Are you willing to wait for that before things open up again? And remember - that's 70-80% of the entire population, including kids. That means we might not get to your 'enough are vaccinated' point for another year or more.

tower912

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2021, 10:05:56 AM »
Yes.  I acknowledge all of these things.   Get a vaccine for kids ok'd and start getting needles in arms.

I have had it and have two shots on board.  I am traveling for spring break but will not do anything touristy.  And what I do, I will do masked.    I have my card with proof of two shots in my wallet.   

Finish the job.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2021, 10:30:55 AM »
Yes.  I acknowledge all of these things.   Get a vaccine for kids ok'd and start getting needles in arms.

I have had it and have two shots on board.  I am traveling for spring break but will not do anything touristy.  And what I do, I will do masked.    I have my card with proof of two shots in my wallet.   

Finish the job.

Hopefully you laminated it!

tower912

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2021, 10:43:54 AM »
I made my point poorly.   I think it is more important to abide by the restrictions (masks, capacity limits) while working to vaccinate everyone, than it is to create a get out of jail free card to wave around and ignore the restrictions.
   However, if I needed to travel internationally and some kind of addition to an existing passport was required to show you had both shots, I can see the logic of that.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Skatastrophy

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2021, 11:00:19 AM »
As a frequent international traveler, I already have my Yellow Card. AKA the "Carte Jaune" book, approved by the WHO and CDC. I had the pharmacist that administered our vaccine fill my first dose out there.

This vaccine passport should be a global thing, we're not the only country talking about this.


jficke13

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2021, 12:05:44 PM »
Good.

Every time I see some breathless pearl clutching headline meant to inspire a hysterical reaction about overreach (Rutgers will only allow vaccinated students on campus! Vaccine passports!), my reaction is always: Good.

There was no opting out of the smallpox vaccine, there should be no opting out of this one. But, since we have people too selfish and stupid to get the vaccine, then I'm all for there being social consequences that fall on those who opt out. No shot? No seat in the Fiserv for you. Come back after deciding you want to participate in society.

pacearrow02

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2021, 12:46:29 PM »
Good.

Every time I see some breathless pearl clutching headline meant to inspire a hysterical reaction about overreach (Rutgers will only allow vaccinated students on campus! Vaccine passports!), my reaction is always: Good.

There was no opting out of the smallpox vaccine, there should be no opting out of this one. But, since we have people too selfish and stupid to get the vaccine, then I'm all for there being social consequences that fall on those who opt out. No shot? No seat in the Fiserv for you. Come back after deciding you want to participate in society.

If a business (FF) wants to put that rule in place that’s fine imo.  I don’t like the gov’t mandating/requiring this.

Jockey

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2021, 12:51:28 PM »
Good.

Every time I see some breathless pearl clutching headline meant to inspire a hysterical reaction about overreach (Rutgers will only allow vaccinated students on campus! Vaccine passports!), my reaction is always: Good.

There was no opting out of the smallpox vaccine, there should be no opting out of this one. But, since we have people too selfish and stupid to get the vaccine, then I'm all for there being social consequences that fall on those who opt out. No shot? No seat in the Fiserv for you. Come back after deciding you want to participate in society.


Well said.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2021, 01:05:31 PM »

Good.

Every time I see some breathless pearl clutching headline meant to inspire a hysterical reaction about overreach (Rutgers will only allow vaccinated students on campus! Vaccine passports!), my reaction is always: Good.

There was no opting out of the smallpox vaccine, there should be no opting out of this one. But, since we have people too selfish and stupid to get the vaccine, then I'm all for there being social consequences that fall on those who opt out. No shot? No seat in the Fiserv for you. Come back after deciding you want to participate in society.


Bingo!

jficke13

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2021, 01:20:43 PM »
If a business (FF) wants to put that rule in place that’s fine imo.  I don’t like the gov’t mandating/requiring this.

Honest question because I was not around for it when it did happen: How were smallpox vaccines mandated? I'm pretty sure they were administered through schools, but I'd have to assume it was under the auspices of a mandate by someone with authority to issue a mandate? Genuinely curious here and not trying to be argumentative.

Also, to the extent that people don't want the government issuing lots of invasive mandates, I hear you and think that's a decent concern. I also think that they are uniquely suited to organize and implement some kind of record (perhaps a passport of sorts) that would be uniformly accepted so that private businesses like the FF can effectively make the choice about how to treat unvaccinated customers. In that case it has a lot less to do with the government forcing people to get vaccine, as it does with government providing the means by which everyone else can organize their responses to people who choose not to get the vaccine.

jsglow

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2021, 01:23:47 PM »
Good.

Every time I see some breathless pearl clutching headline meant to inspire a hysterical reaction about overreach (Rutgers will only allow vaccinated students on campus! Vaccine passports!), my reaction is always: Good.

There was no opting out of the smallpox vaccine, there should be no opting out of this one. But, since we have people too selfish and stupid to get the vaccine, then I'm all for there being social consequences that fall on those who opt out. No shot? No seat in the Fiserv for you. Come back after deciding you want to participate in society.

Word.

MUfan12

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2021, 01:46:30 PM »
Good.

Every time I see some breathless pearl clutching headline meant to inspire a hysterical reaction about overreach (Rutgers will only allow vaccinated students on campus! Vaccine passports!), my reaction is always: Good.

There was no opting out of the smallpox vaccine, there should be no opting out of this one. But, since we have people too selfish and stupid to get the vaccine, then I'm all for there being social consequences that fall on those who opt out. No shot? No seat in the Fiserv for you. Come back after deciding you want to participate in society.

In some cases, sure. There are some people who are willingly ignorant, peddling misinformation, and are acting selfishly.

I worry about the black community in particular, the polling shows they're very hesitant to get it. And historically speaking, I can totally see the reasoning for distrust. Does this type of coercion help, or just create more separation? I think those are the things that need to be figured out before deciding how/where this gets implemented.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2021, 01:50:30 PM »

Honest question because I was not around for it when it did happen: How were smallpox vaccines mandated? I'm pretty sure they were administered through schools, but I'd have to assume it was under the auspices of a mandate by someone with authority to issue a mandate? Genuinely curious here and not trying to be argumentative.



They were mandated by individual state laws. Not sure if it was all 50 states, but I think it was. The right of states to do so was upheld by SCOTUS in 1902 (Jacobson v Massachusetts). The decision was based on a balancing between public health and individual rights, and the court determined that a global pandemic was a reasonable situation in which the state could require vaccines. There were limited exceptions for medical reasons.

The mandatory vaccinations were stopped in 1972, in large part because the federal government declared that  smallpox had essentially been eradicated.

warriorchick

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2021, 02:52:14 PM »

They were mandated by individual state laws. Not sure if it was all 50 states, but I think it was. The right of states to do so was upheld by SCOTUS in 1902 (Jacobson v Massachusetts). The decision was based on a balancing between public health and individual rights, and the court determined that a global pandemic was a reasonable situation in which the state could require vaccines. There were limited exceptions for medical reasons.

The mandatory vaccinations were stopped in 1972, in large part because the federal government declared that  smallpox had essentially been eradicated.

All sorts of vaccinations are required to attend public school (MMR, DPT, etc.)  It's been watered down in a lot of states (it went from "religious exceptions" to "personal beliefs"), but anyone thinking that mandatory vaccinations are unprecedented doesn't know their history.
Have some patience, FFS.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2021, 03:06:10 PM »
All sorts of vaccinations are required to attend public school (MMR, DPT, etc.)  It's been watered down in a lot of states (it went from "religious exceptions" to "personal beliefs"), but anyone thinking that mandatory vaccinations are unprecedented doesn't know their history.



Totally agree. Makes it all the more maddening that there would be opposition to mandating this particular vaccine during the worst pandemic in over a century.

warriorchick

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2021, 03:22:33 PM »


Totally agree. Makes it all the more maddening that there would be opposition to mandating this particular vaccine during the worst pandemic in over a century.

I even had someone try to tell me that requiring proof of vaccination for anything would violate HIPAA.  Nice try.
Have some patience, FFS.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2021, 03:57:00 PM »
I even had someone try to tell me that requiring proof of vaccination for anything would violate HIPAA.  Nice try.


Ugh. HIPAA has become the 21st century excuse to try to get out of nearly anything.

Can’t wait until someone tries to argue that requiring them to file their income taxes violates HIPAA, because the forms ask questions about deductions for healthcare expenses. 😂

BrewCity83

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2021, 04:09:43 PM »


Totally agree. Makes it all the more maddening that there would be opposition to mandating this particular vaccine during the worst pandemic in over a century.

I think the current opposition is rooted in a general mistrust in our government more than anything.  If the general public trusted the government (including Fauci and the CDC) there would be little opposition at all to a COVID vaccine.  In fact, there'd be a mad rush to get jabbed.   
The shaka sign, sometimes known as "hang loose", is a gesture of friendly intent often associated with Hawaii and surf culture.

warriorchick

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2021, 04:55:16 PM »
I think the current opposition is rooted in a general mistrust in our government more than anything.  If the general public trusted the government (including Fauci and the CDC) there would be little opposition at all to a COVID vaccine.  In fact, there'd be a mad rush to get jabbed.

I think it's fair to say that at any point in time, about 50% of Americans mistrust the government. 
Have some patience, FFS.

Jockey

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2021, 06:01:53 PM »
I think the current opposition is rooted in a general mistrust in our government more than anything.  If the general public trusted the government (including Fauci and the CDC) there would be little opposition at all to a COVID vaccine.  In fact, there'd be a mad rush to get jabbed.

Our gov't literally told people not to trust Fauci - who is a public servant, not a politician. You think maybe that might be why certain people don't trust him?

#UnleashSean

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2021, 08:22:46 PM »
Our gov't literally told people not to trust Fauci - who is a public servant, not a politician. You think maybe that might be why certain people don't trust him?

Eh, I'm pretty weary of fauci after the whole being in charge of aids thing.

Jockey

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2021, 08:32:06 PM »
Eh, I'm pretty weary of fauci after the whole being in charge of aids thing.

Well, it’s pretty obvious that a guy who sold buildings would know more than a guy who was involved with infectious diseases for 40 years. Duh...

#UnleashSean

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2021, 08:38:34 PM »
Well, it’s pretty obvious that a guy who sold buildings would know more than a guy who was involved with infectious diseases for 40 years. Duh...

Yup thats what I said   8-)

Hards Alumni

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2021, 09:15:37 AM »

Ugh. HIPAA has become the 21st century excuse to try to get out of nearly anything.

Can’t wait until someone tries to argue that requiring them to file their income taxes violates HIPAA, because the forms ask questions about deductions for healthcare expenses. 😂

Now do the ADA.  For a while on our vehicles, certain passengers could decline wearing a seat-belt because if they were riding a city bus they weren't required to wear one.  And they are afforded equal treatment under the ADA. 

Absolutely terrifying from a business standpoint.  Luckily the city changed their policy.

muwarrior69

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2021, 06:01:38 AM »
If I wanted to travel internationally, I could see the benefit.    Other than that, meh.    Wait until enough are vaccinated and all go together.

Would not matter if you went to Canada. Even if you have been vaccinated and have no place to go you must quarantine for at least 3 days at your own expense in a hotel.

https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/isolation

Warriors4ever

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2021, 07:58:02 AM »
If you’re an Australian returning  home, vaccinated or not, it’s 14 days hotel quarantine at your own expense, no choice of location. You find out where you go when the bus pulls up.

tower912

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2021, 08:00:33 AM »
Would not matter if you went to Canada. Even if you have been vaccinated and have no place to go you must quarantine for at least 3 days at your own expense in a hotel.

https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/isolation

If I wanted to go to Canada or Australia, I would play by their rules.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Warriors4ever

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2021, 08:44:18 AM »
Oh no question about it. Was just throwing it out there for informational purposes. Reading how people cope with it has actually been interesting for me.
DeSantis order in Florida forbids government entities from issuing vaccine passports,  how’s  that gonna work if other countries he doesn't control require them?

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2021, 08:48:56 AM »
Oh no question about it. Was just throwing it out there for informational purposes. Reading how people cope with it has actually been interesting for me.
DeSantis order in Florida forbids government entities from issuing vaccine passports,  how’s  that gonna work if other countries he doesn't control require them?


1. He doesn't care because he is fighting the culture war instead of making good policy.

2. Private entities will probably issue something that will be acceptable.  Although I don't think vaccine passports are going to be that necessary in the next 12-18 months.
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pbiflyer

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2021, 09:29:33 AM »
Oh no question about it. Was just throwing it out there for informational purposes. Reading how people cope with it has actually been interesting for me.
DeSantis order in Florida forbids government entities from issuing vaccine passports,  how’s  that gonna work if other countries he doesn't control require them?

It also forbids Florida businesses from asking for proof of vaccination. Wonder where the cruise industry moves to? Who needed them in Miami, Ft Lauderdale, Cape Canaveral and Tampa anyway?
DeathSantis not only kills citizens but entire industries as well!

reinko

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2021, 09:55:03 AM »
It also forbids Florida businesses from asking for proof of vaccination. Wonder where the cruise industry moves to? Who needed them in Miami, Ft Lauderdale, Cape Canaveral and Tampa anyway?
DeathSantis not only kills citizens but entire industries as well!

Cruise ship companies ain’t based in Florida

Warriors4ever

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2021, 10:36:09 AM »
Media reports said it’s unclear how it affects entities like cruise lines.
So much for the philosophy of local control and letting businesses decide things for themselves lol

Jockey

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2021, 11:27:40 AM »
Media reports said it’s unclear how it affects entities like cruise lines.
So much for the philosophy of local control and letting businesses decide things for themselves lol

Why aren't these fools protesting over driver's licenses? A required government "paper" if you want to drive. Then the gov't tells us how fast we can go. Then they tell us when we have to stop. Then they tell us what side of the road to drive on.

When will this government overreach stop? We are supposed to be free.

#UnleashSean

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2021, 11:31:12 AM »
The flipping of sides from voter Id and then covid passports is funny to me.

muwarrior69

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2021, 12:18:17 PM »
If I wanted to go to Canada or Australia, I would play by their rules.

So according to their rules vaccination provides no benefit against COVID as you might still be infected and spread the disease.

jesmu84

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2021, 12:35:30 PM »
So according to their rules vaccination provides no benefit against COVID as you might still be infected and spread the disease.

Source?

pbiflyer

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2021, 01:14:45 PM »
Cruise ship companies ain’t based in Florida
They do business in Florida, a lot of business.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2021, 01:45:18 PM »
Why aren't these fools protesting over driver's licenses? A required government "paper" if you want to drive. Then the gov't tells us how fast we can go. Then they tell us when we have to stop. Then they tell us what side of the road to drive on.

When will this government overreach stop? We are supposed to be free.


I'm kinda pissed the FAA won't let me just jump into the cockpit of a loaded 747 and give it a shot. After all, I've tried a few flight simulators and I only crash about half of the time. Damn deep state.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2021, 01:49:24 PM »
So according to their rules vaccination provides no benefit against COVID as you might still be infected and spread the disease.


No. Their rules are based on the fact that we don't have a reliable vaccine passport system to provide proof of vaccination. The paper cards are too easily forged.

If the US government came up with a secure and verifiable vaccine passport system (similar in security to the regular passport system), I suspect those governments would change their rules.

muwarrior69

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2021, 06:23:04 PM »

No. Their rules are based on the fact that we don't have a reliable vaccine passport system to provide proof of vaccination. The paper cards are too easily forged.

If the US government came up with a secure and verifiable vaccine passport system (similar in security to the regular passport system), I suspect those governments would change their rules.

Even their own citizens must quarantine upon re-entering Canada even if vaccinated.  Can't speak to Australia.

https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/isolation

muwarrior69

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GooooMarquette

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2021, 06:48:26 PM »
Even their own citizens must quarantine upon re-entering Canada even if vaccinated.  Can't speak to Australia.

https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/isolation


Yep. Because they don't have a vaccine passport system, and Canada is well behind us in vaccinations.

Doesn't change what I said; they would likely change the requirement if there was a reliable way of verifying vaccination status.

BrewCity83

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2021, 07:47:08 PM »
Why does it have to be a passport?  If the concern is that nobody is going to spread the virus, why not use the quick temperature check at the entrance to a game or concert or at the airport?  That's what hospitals and other places have been using prior to the vaccine, and it doesn't discriminate against anyone who hasn't been vaccinated for whatever reason.
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ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2021, 08:08:28 PM »
Why does it have to be a passport?  If the concern is that nobody is going to spread the virus, why not use the quick temperature check at the entrance to a game or concert or at the airport?  That's what hospitals and other places have been using prior to the vaccine, and it doesn't discriminate against anyone who hasn't been vaccinated for whatever reason.

Because temp checks are lagging indicators and basically worthless.  Just another shot in the dark at the beginning of this that hasn't gone away.

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2021, 08:08:49 PM »
Why does it have to be a passport?  If the concern is that nobody is going to spread the virus, why not use the quick temperature check at the entrance to a game or concert or at the airport?  That's what hospitals and other places have been using prior to the vaccine, and it doesn't discriminate against anyone who hasn't been vaccinated for whatever reason.


Because you can pass along the virus when you are presymptomatic.

Honestly, were people not paying attention months ago?
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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #51 on: April 04, 2021, 08:16:55 PM »
They still are not. The vaccine is the end game and your get out of jail card. Take it in your arm and 2 weeks later you are done with this nonsense, hey?
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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #52 on: April 04, 2021, 08:53:59 PM »
They still are not. The vaccine is the end game and your get out of jail card. Take it in your arm and 2 weeks later you are done with this nonsense, hey?

kinda like fentenyl laced heroin, eh?

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #53 on: April 04, 2021, 09:06:58 PM »
What is enough?  70% is the number i hear.  What if 35% are against the vaccine is the past year the new normal.  At some point we need to move on with or without this passport.  If you do not want to get vaccinated that is your choice but it should not stop the rest of us from getting back to normal

The percent depends on whatever message Fauci is trying to send at a particular moment in time. It's constantly in flux and can even be different for different people, just cause. #science

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How about... 'been positive' passports as well? Next week, why would I need a vaccine when I just had Covid?

7 days and I'll be at the Twins game. 8 days and I'll be at the TWolves game. Leggggoooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ps - normally wouldn't look forward to sitting through a TWolves game, even against the Nets... but, this one I kind of am. #HotDate
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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #54 on: April 04, 2021, 09:14:18 PM »

Yep. Because they don't have a vaccine passport system, and Canada is well behind us in vaccinations.

Doesn't change what I said; they would likely change the requirement if there was a reliable way of verifying vaccination status.

You mean to tell me their national health system does not keep records of who was vaccinated?

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #55 on: April 04, 2021, 09:30:24 PM »
You mean to tell me their national health system does not keep records of who was vaccinated?


They do, but you ignored the part about Canada being way behind us in vaccinating people. I have a friend whose 90-year-old mother just got her first shot. Them rolling out a passport this early in the game would be meaningless.

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2021, 09:38:27 PM »

They do, but you ignored the part about Canada being way behind us in vaccinating people. I have a friend whose 90-year-old mother just got her first shot. Them rolling out a passport this early in the game would be meaningless.

I think the "passport" is a terrible idea.  That said, a country like Canada that 1) has Fed-Med and 2) is just starting to vax people would be a better place to start that trying to play catch-up in a country like the US, where we are doing very good in vaxxing and have no way of knowing, in any kind of actionable way, who has and hasn't gotten the shot.

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #57 on: April 04, 2021, 09:43:57 PM »
I think the "passport" is a terrible idea.  That said, a country like Canada that 1) has Fed-Med and 2) is just starting to vax people would be a better place to start that trying to play catch-up in a country like the US, where we are doing very good in vaxxing and have no way of knowing, in any kind of actionable way, who has and hasn't gotten the shot.


That’s fine. But if the government and/or business community follows your approach and waits, we won’t have full stadiums for six months or more.

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #58 on: April 04, 2021, 09:47:39 PM »

That’s fine. But if the government and/or business community follows your approach and waits, we won’t have full stadiums for six months or more.

or at some point, teams and stadia are going to say F it, enter at your own risk.

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #59 on: April 04, 2021, 09:52:31 PM »
or at some point, teams and stadia are going to say F it, enter at your own risk.


You might be right, but I doubt it. Way too much liability.

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2021, 09:56:45 PM »

You might be right, but I doubt it. Way too much liability.

What's the crime or what are the damages, and how does a plaintiff prove it?

#OpenUp
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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2021, 10:04:16 PM »

You might be right, but I doubt it. Way too much liability.

Prove that that you caught it at the FF.  Or Miller Park.  Or Pick N Save.  Or at school.  Or at the nudie bar. 

You can't.

Eventually $$ talks, and these teams can't keep playing behind closed doors or at reduced attendance.  Especially once the vaccine rate gets higher (35%+ in WI for the first dose, IIRC.)

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2021, 10:09:14 PM »
Prove that that you caught it at the FF.  Or Miller Park.  Or Pick N Save.  Or at school.  Or at the nudie bar. 

You can't.

Eventually $$ talks, and these teams can't keep playing behind closed doors or at reduced attendance.  Especially once the vaccine rate gets higher (35%+ in WI for the first dose, IIRC.)


Maybe. Maybe not. Guess we will see.

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #63 on: April 04, 2021, 10:13:45 PM »

They do, but you ignored the part about Canada being way behind us in vaccinating people. I have a friend whose 90-year-old mother just got her first shot. Them rolling out a passport this early in the game would be meaningless.

Why would a passport be necessary if a Canadian citizen can access his/her vaccination records proving they have been vaccinated for all sorts of diseases including COVID? I am sure parents get theses records all the time so their children can go to school so why not an adult so they come into the country?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 10:16:21 PM by muwarrior69 »

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #64 on: April 04, 2021, 10:19:04 PM »
Why would a passport be necessary if a Canadian citizen can access his/her vaccination records proving they have been vaccinated for all sorts of diseases including COVID?


I don’t know the process for accessing a Canadian citizen’s healthcare records, so I can’t answer that. In any event, I’m more concerned with what happens here, so I’ll focus on that from now on, and you can worry about Canada if you prefer.

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #65 on: April 05, 2021, 05:15:26 AM »
Even their own citizens must quarantine upon re-entering Canada even if vaccinated.  Can't speak to Australia.

https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/isolation

My wife knows someone who's married to an Australian.  They moved to Australia this year and they had to quarantine for 2 weeks before they could even move into their new house.

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #66 on: April 05, 2021, 07:17:44 AM »
I think ‘vaccine passport’, the words, have now been designed to be the next meaningless fight.  In reality no national system is getting created in time for it to be useful, no matter if you feel you like it or don’t like it. 

In practice, I would guess there will be a period of time where the vaccinated will be able to do things the unvaccinated can’t. It will likely be up to the person to show their vaccine card or a picture of it.

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #67 on: April 05, 2021, 08:00:31 AM »
I think the "passport" is a terrible idea.  That said, a country like Canada that 1) has Fed-Med and 2) is just starting to vax people would be a better place to start that trying to play catch-up in a country like the US, where we are doing very good in vaxxing and have no way of knowing, in any kind of actionable way, who has and hasn't gotten the shot.
This is simply incorrect.
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #68 on: April 05, 2021, 08:12:13 AM »
I think ‘vaccine passport’, the words, have now been designed to be the next meaningless fight.  In reality no national system is getting created in time for it to be useful, no matter if you feel you like it or don’t like it. 

In practice, I would guess there will be a period of time where the vaccinated will be able to do things the unvaccinated can’t. It will likely be up to the person to show their vaccine card or a picture of it.


Completely agree.  It will be one of those things a year from now that we will have trouble remembering what the fuss was about. 
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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #69 on: April 05, 2021, 08:44:19 AM »
https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/isolation

Can you point me to the section that says Canada believes vaccinations provide no protection against the virus?

That was your claim earlier.

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #70 on: April 05, 2021, 08:57:44 AM »
I think the "passport" is a terrible idea.  That said, a country like Canada that 1) has Fed-Med and 2) is just starting to vax people would be a better place to start that trying to play catch-up in a country like the US, where we are doing very good in vaxxing and have no way of knowing, in any kind of actionable way, who has and hasn't gotten the shot.

I'm pretty sure every shot recipient is being reported to health department vaccine registries.

the "any kind of actionable way" would be translating the centrally held EMR to something that a private business could ask for access to, like "show me your vaccine records" before I sell you coffee.

It's the same concept and mechanism that surround mandatory vaccination of children for school (at least until idiots and grifters bribed anti-vax exemptions into existence, but even that relies on a central repository of who *hasn't* been vaccinated).

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #71 on: April 05, 2021, 09:16:20 AM »
I'm pretty sure every shot recipient is being reported to health department vaccine registries.
This is exactly right.

the "any kind of actionable way" would be translating the centrally held EMR to something that a private business could ask for access to, like "show me your vaccine records" before I sell you coffee.
Right. Though practically, the private business won't be querying the records themselves, they'll use one of the dozens of companies currently working to pull this information into a usable, provable vax pass. And right now, the issue of writing APIs into the 50+ databases isn't a problem, the problem is that the health department databases themselves could be generously described as "chaotic".
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #72 on: April 05, 2021, 10:55:15 AM »
This is exactly right.
Right. Though practically, the private business won't be querying the records themselves, they'll use one of the dozens of companies currently working to pull this information into a usable, provable vax pass. And right now, the issue of writing APIs into the 50+ databases isn't a problem, the problem is that the health department databases themselves could be generously described as "chaotic".

18 states, including Wisconsin use the same immunization tracking system. So, a big chunk can be addressed (and private companies are furiously working to make that data available safely and effectively  ;) ) but yes, some states are a mess and others such as Florida are actively preventing access to that information.

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2021, 12:42:31 PM »
Can you point me to the section that says Canada believes vaccinations provide no protection against the virus?

That was your claim earlier.

Their actions say that as they specifically state you must quarantine for 3 days even if you're vaccinated.

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #74 on: April 06, 2021, 02:51:47 PM »
So, the party of Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Fast and Furious Solyndra Uranium One Vince Foster Christmas card list tan suit Seth Rich baby Parts her emails Sidney Blumenthal secret lesbian and the TARMAC is now freaking out about "Covid Passports"? Biden and his jack-booted thugs are going to FORCE YOU to carry a Covid Passport to go to any sporting event or concert, local bar or day-care center. It's left-wing authoritarianism!!!


The funniest part is that there are actually people - even here on Scoop - that believe this. Stupidity running rampant! I'm guessing these evil passports will come in a tiny plastic wallet with a picture of The Cat in the Hat on the cover.


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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #75 on: April 06, 2021, 03:11:57 PM »
So, the party of Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Fast and Furious Solyndra Uranium One Vince Foster Christmas card list tan suit Seth Rich baby Parts her emails Sidney Blumenthal secret lesbian and the TARMAC is now freaking out about "Covid Passports"? Biden and his jack-booted thugs are going to FORCE YOU to carry a Covid Passport to go to any sporting event or concert, local bar or day-care center. It's left-wing authoritarianism!!!


The funniest part is that there are actually people - even here on Scoop - that believe this. Stupidity running rampant! I'm guessing these evil passports will come in a tiny plastic wallet with a picture of The Cat in the Hat on the cover.

You know that Sleepy Joe (or his handlers) came out today and said that they weren't going to mandate a vaccine passport from a federal level, right?

Otherwise, great screed.  Did you wipe the froth off of your mouth after that one?

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #76 on: April 07, 2021, 12:30:49 PM »
I certainly see the irony in the GOP's desire for people to have to 'show their papers' when it's their idea, but when it affects them disproportionately they can't fathom why they should have to 'show their papers.

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Re: Vaccine Passports
« Reply #77 on: April 07, 2021, 05:47:41 PM »
You know that Sleepy Joe (or his handlers) came out today and said that they weren't going to mandate a vaccine passport from a federal level, right?

Otherwise, great screed.  Did you wipe the froth off of your mouth after that one?


Um..., that was my point? If necessary, I can type slower to make it easier for you to understand.

But, the crazies were crazyin' on right wing media even though there was a 0% chance that Biden would mandate a vaccine passport.

 

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