Illinois few years after Final Four....

[ChicosBailBonds]

Illinois, just a few years after an appearance in the national title game, is now 10-14 and 2-9 in the Big Ten.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

But, their coach is more "likable" 

[The Lens]

Imagine how bad they'd be if TC was hired...

KIDDING, KIDDING, KIDDING!!

 

[MarquetteFan94]

Where's their Final Four bump?  They're just not very talented.  Weber is a lousy recruiter.

[rocky_warrior]

Weber is a lousy recruiter.

While we're talking about Weber, after the game last night it appeared that he quickly shook Sampson's hand and then turned to walk off the court - ala what people said TC did (I was at the game but didn't notice it in my dejected state).

[TJ]

Weber is a lousy recruiter.

While we're talking about Weber, after the game last night it appeared that he quickly shook Sampson's hand and then turned to walk off the court - ala what people said TC did (I was at the game but didn't notice it in my dejected state).

I started a thread about TC doing that, but it was more because of surprise than anything.  I like TC and felt bad putting up another excuse for people to bash him, but I had never seen him do that before after any game and I was wondering if I was seeing things.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Illinois finished 2nd in the Big Ten the year after they went to the Finals -- after losing two players to the NBA.

We were in the NIT for two consecutive years, followed by two NCAA appearances when we were completely unprepared.

Weber has also been to 2 Big Ten Tournament championships, with one victory. He also coached SIU to the Sweet 16.

The screw job on Weber by Eric Gordon and Kelvin Sampson has obviously been widely reported. If that had happened to Marquette, I can assure you we wouldn't be too thrilled.

By the way, do you think Illinois fans are happy with Weber?

[RJax55]

Weber's Illini teams were stocked with players recruited by Bill Self. He walked into to a perfect situation down in Champaign.

Weber recruiting has really pickup recently, he has 4 highly-rated recruits all ready committed for '09 and two for '10. Therefore, Illini fans have given him a pass on this year's season. If it wasn't for these commitments, he would definitely be on the hot seat.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

LSU's coached got canned today.

Apparently, a Final Four doesn't get you a lifetime pass.

[Frozen Caveman Coach]

He didn't lead LSU to the promised land of the Big East or single handedly, brick by brick, build the Al Center either.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Illinois finished 2nd in the Big Ten the year after they went to the Finals -- after losing two players to the NBA.

We were in the NIT for two consecutive years, followed by two NCAA appearances when we were completely unprepared.

Weber has also been to 2 Big Ten Tournament championships, with one victory. He also coached SIU to the Sweet 16.

The screw job on Weber by Eric Gordon and Kelvin Sampson has obviously been widely reported. If that had happened to Marquette, I can assure you we wouldn't be too thrilled.

By the way, do you think Illinois fans are happy with Weber?

All true, but as much as people rip on Crean he has NEVER had a losing season let alone something as disasterous as 2-9.

In fact, our Big East conference record is 26-16...3rd best in the conference the least 3 years.

Illinois also has the advantage of being the state school where MU doesn't.

[ChicosBailBonds]

LSU's coached got canned today.

Apparently, a Final Four doesn't get you a lifetime pass.

If Crean's record were like the LSU's coach, he would be canned too. 

The Tigers are 8-13 overall, 1-6 in the SEC West, and have lost 17 of their last 23 conference games.

[IAmMarquette]

He didn't lead LSU to the promised land of the Big East or single handedly, brick by brick, build the Al Center either.

He did, however, manage to turn a Final Four team into a team that is 6-23 in the SEC since then. Any other coach with that kind of record--here's the kicker: INCLUDING CREAN--should be fired too.

Nobody's giving Crean a free pass. Some people here make it sound like he's an unmitigated failure/worst coach in the country, and that's simply not true. Nowhere near it.

[The Lens]

Cue Dick Vitale saying what a shame it is that LSU lost its patience.  Of course Vitale won't mention the extention he signed after the FF or the millions of dollars he'll be receiving from LSU now for doing bad TV on ESPN Plus.

These coaches have no problem signing huge extention after some success but seem to balk at being fired / held accountable after some failure.

I loved Skiles comments after being let go, essentially don't feel for me, I've made millions, I'm doing just fine.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

He didn't lead LSU to the promised land of the Big East or single handedly, brick by brick, build the Al Center either.

I know you're being sarcastic, but are there really people who believe people donated to The Al McGuire Center because of Crean? Do people believe that people said to themselves, "That Tom Crean needs a basketball facility." Or was it because of the success of the 2003 FF team and more along the lines of "I am so proud of MU that I'm going to donate to the proposed basketball facility"?

If it is the latter, wouldn't it be more appropriate to credit The Al as "the house that Dwyane built?"

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Illinois finished 2nd in the Big Ten the year after they went to the Finals -- after losing two players to the NBA.

We were in the NIT for two consecutive years, followed by two NCAA appearances when we were completely unprepared.

Weber has also been to 2 Big Ten Tournament championships, with one victory. He also coached SIU to the Sweet 16.

The screw job on Weber by Eric Gordon and Kelvin Sampson has obviously been widely reported. If that had happened to Marquette, I can assure you we wouldn't be too thrilled.

By the way, do you think Illinois fans are happy with Weber?

All true, but as much as people rip on Crean he has NEVER had a losing season let alone something as disasterous as 2-9.

I am in no way advocating firing Crean, but with the teams he brings into the Bradley Center, of course he's got a winning record.

We were 7-9 our last year in Conference USA, by the way.

[chapman]

I agree that Self's recruits had a lot to do with Weber's early success.  While I think Self is as overrated as you can get as a coach, it doesn't matter much as he's a master recruiter.

Also, can't blame Weber for not wanting to stay on the court and congratulate the rest of IU.  We probably wouldn't have had a problem with Crean doing what he did if Jerry Smith had committed to MU, only for Pitino to run up his cell phone minutes harassing the kid until he changed his mind and went to UL.  Only Gordon is averaging 10 more ppg than Smith and the Illini would probably be looking at an NCAA bid instead of 10-14 if he didn't pull out of his commitment late.  Some of the things the Illinois fans were doing were over the line, but if that's what it takes for fans of a losing team to really get into the game...

[ChicosBailBonds]

He didn't lead LSU to the promised land of the Big East or single handedly, brick by brick, build the Al Center either.

I know you're being sarcastic, but are there really people who believe people donated to The Al McGuire Center because of Crean? Do people believe that people said to themselves, "That Tom Crean needs a basketball facility." Or was it because of the success of the 2003 FF team and more along the lines of "I am so proud of MU that I'm going to donate to the proposed basketball facility"?

If it is the latter, wouldn't it be more appropriate to credit The Al as "the house that Dwyane built?"

Were there people at the time that said we need to continue this momentum and finally build a facility that will keep the program going in the right direction and allow us to hang on to this coach?

Yes.  Absolutely.  To deny that would be disingenious.  Yes, as you state there were many people that removed the coach from the equation entirely, and there were many that did not.


After going through coaches like crap through a goose the last 25 years, people were wanting to hang on to a guy that Al McGuire liked and said was the real deal....that also mean a lot to many people...Al's personal endorsement of Tom.

For as much as people like to harken back to McGuire, they sure do ignore Al's own words about Crean.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Illinois finished 2nd in the Big Ten the year after they went to the Finals -- after losing two players to the NBA.

We were in the NIT for two consecutive years, followed by two NCAA appearances when we were completely unprepared.

Weber has also been to 2 Big Ten Tournament championships, with one victory. He also coached SIU to the Sweet 16.

The screw job on Weber by Eric Gordon and Kelvin Sampson has obviously been widely reported. If that had happened to Marquette, I can assure you we wouldn't be too thrilled.

By the way, do you think Illinois fans are happy with Weber?

All true, but as much as people rip on Crean he has NEVER had a losing season let alone something as disasterous as 2-9.

I am in no way advocating firing Crean, but with the teams he brings into the Bradley Center, of course he's got a winning record.

We were 7-9 our last year in Conference USA, by the way.

Our conference records are nowhere near as poor as Brady's or Webber's this year.

You are correct on CUSA, I was referencing Big East....I should have clarified.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

He didn't lead LSU to the promised land of the Big East or single handedly, brick by brick, build the Al Center either.

I know you're being sarcastic, but are there really people who believe people donated to The Al McGuire Center because of Crean? Do people believe that people said to themselves, "That Tom Crean needs a basketball facility." Or was it because of the success of the 2003 FF team and more along the lines of "I am so proud of MU that I'm going to donate to the proposed basketball facility"?

If it is the latter, wouldn't it be more appropriate to credit The Al as "the house that Dwyane built?"

For as much as people like to harken back to McGuire, they sure do ignore Al's own words about Crean.

Yeah, and Barry Goldwater became a liberal as his star began to fade.

[jmayer1]

He didn't lead LSU to the promised land of the Big East or single handedly, brick by brick, build the Al Center either.

I know you're being sarcastic, but are there really people who believe people donated to The Al McGuire Center because of Crean? Do people believe that people said to themselves, "That Tom Crean needs a basketball facility." Or was it because of the success of the 2003 FF team and more along the lines of "I am so proud of MU that I'm going to donate to the proposed basketball facility"?

If it is the latter, wouldn't it be more appropriate to credit The Al as "the house that Dwyane built?"

For as much as people like to harken back to McGuire, they sure do ignore Al's own words about Crean.

Yeah, and Barry Goldwater became a liberal as his star began to fade.

What the hell is that supposed to mean PRN?  Are you saying McGuire only endorsed Crean so he could get back in the spotlight or something?  That might be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard somebody say in my entire life.

[MUCHI814]

Weber has some good recruits coming in, I'd be very surpised if that program stayed down for too long.  I mean they did go 23-11 last year and played VT pretty tough in the first round of the tournament. And also it will be interesting to see what happens to Crean when his 3 guys leave-I think its very wide open

[tower912]

When the '3 amigos' leave, assuming no transfers, we will still have Acker, Lazar, Christopherson, Cubillan, Hazel, O'tule, Williams, Williams, Fulce, Taylor, Mbakwe.    We will be fine.    Illinois struggling, LSU firing its coach.   Our pathetic 16-5 (6-4) looks worse all the time.

[Frozen Caveman Coach]

Is it documented anywhere that Al said anything bad about a previous coach?  He did MU tv games when Deane was coach and probably had a good relationship with him.  I know he used to drop in at the offices and take O'Neill's car for a ride and run up his car phone bill back in the day.  Al seemed to like most people and they liked him.

I never saw the movie, but wasn't Million Dollar Baby based on the real life story of Wade turning an average paid coach whose teams faded in Feb and March, into an idol and one of the highest paid coaches in the country?  When is the sequel coming out?

[Frozen Caveman Coach]

When the '3 amigos' leave, assuming no transfers, we will still have Acker, Lazar, Christopherson, Cubillan, Hazel, O'tule, Williams, Williams, Fulce, Taylor, Mbakwe.    We will be fine.    Illinois struggling, LSU firing its coach.   Our pathetic 16-5 (6-4) looks worse all the time.

How do you know we will be fine?  Hayward is the only known, proven commodity at this time.  Everyone else has been spotty at best, not to say they couldn't still develop - just a little too optimistic for me.

[MUCHI814]

Of, Acker, Lazar, Christopherson, Cubillan, Hazel, O'tule, Williams, Williams, Fulce, Taylor, Mbakwe, we have seen only 4 of them play.  Lazar and Cubillan are thus far the only ones that have impressed myself.  I'm just saying a lot of weight and hope going on a bunch of players that none of us have seen play.  Assuming that everyone is back next year, excluding Barro and Fitzgerald I don't see many of them getting significant playing time other than Mbakwe.  It's gonna be interesting.  All speculation though of course.

[Big Papi]

Illinois finished 2nd in the Big Ten the year after they went to the Finals -- after losing two players to the NBA.

We were in the NIT for two consecutive years, followed by two NCAA appearances when we were completely unprepared.

Weber has also been to 2 Big Ten Tournament championships, with one victory. He also coached SIU to the Sweet 16.

The screw job on Weber by Eric Gordon and Kelvin Sampson has obviously been widely reported. If that had happened to Marquette, I can assure you we wouldn't be too thrilled.

By the way, do you think Illinois fans are happy with Weber?

All true, but as much as people rip on Crean he has NEVER had a losing season let alone something as disasterous as 2-9.

I am in no way advocating firing Crean, but with the teams he brings into the Bradley Center, of course he's got a winning record.

We were 7-9 our last year in Conference USA, by the way.

Are you forgetful or are you glossing over the fact that if it wasn't for Diener, Novak, Chapman and Bradley making some big shots against Holy Cross, Mizzou and Pitt we don't even get to play Kentucky?  You act like Wade did it all by myself which is FAR FROM THE TRUTH.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Of, Acker, Lazar, Christopherson, Cubillan, Hazel, O'tule, Williams, Williams, Fulce, Taylor, Mbakwe, we have seen only 4 of them play.  Lazar and Cubillan are thus far the only ones that have impressed myself.  I'm just saying a lot of weight and hope going on a bunch of players that none of us have seen play.  Assuming that everyone is back next year, excluding Barro and Fitzgerald I don't see many of them getting significant playing time other than Mbakwe.  It's gonna be interesting.  All speculation though of course.

Considering who offered some of those kids, I feel we'll be fine.  Among all of them, one is a "project" the others were all offered by mostly very high end programs including Wisconsin, North Carolina, Virginia, etc or respectable high major programs like Providence, etc.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Is it documented anywhere that Al said anything bad about a previous coach?  He did MU tv games when Deane was coach and probably had a good relationship with him.  I know he used to drop in at the offices and take O'Neill's car for a ride and run up his car phone bill back in the day.  Al seemed to like most people and they liked him.

I never saw the movie, but wasn't Million Dollar Baby based on the real life story of Wade turning an average paid coach whose teams faded in Feb and March, into an idol and one of the highest paid coaches in the country?  When is the sequel coming out?

Well I can tell you first hand from what I saw with Al, yes I worked with Al for 5 years on the broadcast, a different take of his toward Crean then Deane.  He certainly wasn't anti-Deane or anti-anyone, that made Al what he was.  But I would suggest he was certainly more pro-Crean then others.

There's a difference between liking and who he thought was a guy that was a cut above what we had in terms of work ethic, etc, etc....that was the sense I got from both Hank and Al.

[tower912]

You are right, caveman, all of those guys that the other big schools wanted that we landed are guaranteed to suck.   We should just shut the program down, hope we can beat Depaul, and/or go Dlll.    We may turn into Rutgers.   We will think longingly of the Dukiet days.  I am sure you are right.     F Sarcasm.    College sports will always be cyclical.   There will always be the unknown of what the recruits are going to produce.   Either you trust the coaches' collective judgement or you don't.   And it is possible we will have a down year, one where we barely win 20 and finish 500 in conference and are on the bubble.   Lots of programs have rebuilding years.   Like UF this year.    Or the Illini.  Or LSU.   It would be great to be a program that reloads instead of rebuilds.   I will choose optimism until proven otherwise.

[4everwarriors]

LSU's coached got canned today.

Apparently, a Final Four doesn't get you a lifetime pass.
[/quAote
Apparently at some schools it does especially if you can talk your way
through like a used car salesman.

[Coobeys Oil Depot]

LSU's coached got canned today.

Apparently, a Final Four doesn't get you a lifetime pass.
[/quAote
Apparently at some schools it does especially if you can talk your way
through like a used car salesman.

Used car salesman? We're not talking about Jerry Wainwright in this thread.

[ChicosBailBonds]

LSU's coached got canned today.

Apparently, a Final Four doesn't get you a lifetime pass.

Apparently at some schools it does especially if you can talk your way
through like a used car salesman.

Explain the "lifetime pass" for us....or if that's not the case, you must be saying he should be fired....explain why.  You may be 100% right, I'm just curious to understand the reasons.  It's obvious he doesn't have a lifetime pass or a 50 year pass or a 20 year pass or a 1 year pass (yes, he's under contract...so was John Brady).  So since we all know the lifetime pass comment is just tremendous hyperbole, one has to make the logic assumption you believe he should be fired...because obviously it's only this magical lifetime pass that keeps him employed.

Could you explain why he needs to be terminated?

[Marquette84]

If it is the latter, wouldn't it be more appropriate to credit The Al as "the house that Dwyane built?"

Based on your logic, it shouldn't be called the Al, either--it should be the Bo Ellis center.  We should have a statue of Bill Neary out front and play on Dean Memminger court.

I'm sure you'd find that to be more "appropriate" as well.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

LSU's coached got canned today.

Apparently, a Final Four doesn't get you a lifetime pass.

Apparently at some schools it does especially if you can talk your way
through like a used car salesman.

Explain the "lifetime pass" for us....or if that's not the case, you must be saying he should be fired....explain why.  You may be 100% right, I'm just curious to understand the reasons.  It's obvious he doesn't have a lifetime pass or a 50 year pass or a 20 year pass or a 1 year pass (yes, he's under contract...so was John Brady).  So since we all know the lifetime pass comment is just tremendous hyperbole, one has to make the logic assumption you believe he should be fired...because obviously it's only this magical lifetime pass that keeps him employed.

Could you explain why he needs to be terminated?

I'm afraid you will never get a rational response to this (if any).

Unfortunately, there are some fans of the MU program who don't care for the current coach, and use any chinks in the armor they can find to take shots at him and the program he runs.

These shots taken at the coach are not based upon reason, facts, or common sense, but rather based upon a personal dislike of Coach Crean, and therefore skewing their judgment of the program's actual performance.

I hope MU rolls big tomorrow so the negativity and sweeping generalizations can subside (at least for a little while).