That was embarrassing

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

They didn't quit.  They just didn't seem mentally present.  A lot of standing around and watching rebounds.  Little movement on offense. Slow on defensive rotations.

The problem is I have seen this a lot with Wojo teams.  They just have games where they seem mentally elsewhere.

[MuggsyB]

I absolutely do not believe the team quit. Carton and Lewis were hitting the floor all night. Cain, McEwen were mixing it up. Even Elliott and Torrence. DJ had some absolutely amazing hustle plays, even after the game was decided.

The bench was dead with 4 minutes left? Well, yeah. We were getting their arses kicked and the outcome was not in doubt; the guys were deflated. That is NOT the same as the team quitting. Get that shyte outta here.

As for DJ's quote, folks shouldn't read too much into it. Athletes and coaches use the word "effort" in all kinds of ways. Most commonly, it's a synonym for "We sucked."

This program has a world of problems, and it starts with the head coach, who should have been fired right after the DePaul loss. I do not believe having a bunch of "quitters" is one of our problems, though.

I hate to see people label these kids as "quitters," especially because I don't think it's close to being true.

They aren't "quilters" but there is zero leadership or accountability from the HC.  You could see Wojo's expressions through the mask.  They showed a man absolutely clueless, resigned, apathetic, and without any wherewithal how to coach this particular group in an elimination game. 

[MU82]

They aren't "quilters" but there is zero leadership or accountability from the HC.  You could see Wojo's expressions through the mask.  They showed a man absolutely clueless, resigned, apathetic, and without any wherewithal how to coach this particular group in an elimination game.

That all might be true. He certainly hasn't demonstrated otherwise, and he should be gone.

It's light years away from accusing our athletes of quitting, as some have not only suggested but come right out and said.

[tower912]

Yep.  You could see him willing his shorthanded team into shooting poorly, rebounding poorly, and getting barely beat to loose balls.   You could see him holding back all those capable options off the bench.   .500 team, Muggsy.  My prediction to you when I thought Dexter was going to be good.   That was based on my opinion of their talent as well as my belief that Wojo is no better than an average coach.

[hairy worthen]

That all might be true. He certainly hasn't demonstrated otherwise, and he should be gone.

It's light years away from accusing our athletes of quitting, as some have not only suggested but come right out and said.

Quitters may be the wrong word, but a coach losing his team is real. For the first time all year that's what it looked like. You can get on your high horse all you want, but that was an abysmal performance and that team  was getting beat to rebounds and lose balls all game.

[MuggsyB]

Yep.  You could see him willing his shorthanded team into shooting poorly, rebounding poorly, and getting barely beat to loose balls.   You could see him holding back all those capable options off the bench.   .500 team, Muggsy.  My prediction to you when I thought Dexter was going to be good.   That was based on my opinion of their talent as well as my belief that Wojo is no better than an average coach.

Of course the anemic shooting in the first half wasn't his fault Tower but we played tentatively and without direction.  Wojo is also responsible for the entire construction of this roster.  The fact is there was never any urgency in the first half to be more aggressive and get to the line, or Garcia on the block, or implore Carton to take the mid-range or floater after he hit one to start the game.  We missed open shots, yes.  Nevertheless, we played tight and without the proper focus or purpose. 

[hairy worthen]

Yep.  You could see him willing his shorthanded team into shooting poorly, rebounding poorly, and getting barely beat to loose balls.   You could see him holding back all those capable options off the bench.   .500 team, Muggsy.  My prediction to you when I thought Dexter was going to be good.   That was based on my opinion of their talent as well as my belief that Wojo is no better than an average coach.

Honest question. At what point is the coach accountable for the performance of the team. According to you we wouldn't even need a coach. Bottom line they played like ass today against a below average big east team. Who takes responsibility for that?

[MU82]

Quitters may be the wrong word, but a coach losing his team is real. For the first time all year that's what it looked like. You can get on your high horse all you want, but that was an abysmal performance and that team  was getting beat to rebounds and lose balls all game.

We will respectfully agree to disagree about Wojo "losing the team."

Glad you agree that they didn't quit, because they didn't.

If saying these athletes didn't quit is me getting on my high horse, then giddyap!

[5DollarPitcher]

Yep.  You could see him willing his shorthanded team into shooting poorly, rebounding poorly, and getting barely beat to loose balls.   You could see him holding back all those capable options off the bench.   .500 team, Muggsy.  My prediction to you when I thought Dexter was going to be good.   That was based on my opinion of their talent as well as my belief that Wojo is no better than an average coach.

sub .500 in conference
0 NCAA tourney wins
0 BE conference titles
0 BET Finals appearances
7 years

Take your apologist word salad elsewhere.

[Johnny B]

sub .500 in conference
0 NCAA tourney wins
0 BE conference titles
0 BET Finals appearances
7 years

Take your apologist word salad elsewhere.

5dolla will be pro jo after next season. u heard it here first

[DegenerateDish]

I believe they mentally and emotionally quit, and I say that for a variety of reasons.

They missed (almost literally) everything in the first half, it clearly impacted them mentally (Carton admitted it) on the defensive end. Long season, playing in the early afternoon game on the Wednesday of the conference tournament, and the body language at the end was clear as day.

I don’t think it was a coincidence what my eyes were telling me and Carton admitting they lacked effort. They still tried and competed, but this team was 100% emotionally and mentally toast. I don’t think that’s on the players either, I think it’s the environment.

[hairy worthen]

I believe they mentally and emotionally quit, and I say that for a variety of reasons.

They missed (almost literally) everything in the first half, it clearly impacted them mentally (Carton admitted it) on the defensive end. Long season, playing in the early afternoon game on the Wednesday of the conference tournament, and the body language at the end was clear as day.

I don’t think it was a coincidence what my eyes were telling me and Carton admitting they lacked effort. They still tried and competed, but this team was 100% emotionally and mentally toast. I don’t think that’s on the players either, I think it’s the environment.

What do mean by "environment"

[f/k/a humanlung]

5dolla will be pro jo after next season. u heard it here first

If he's coaching somewhere else, I am sure you will be right.

[DegenerateDish]

What do mean by "environment"

Coaching (or lack thereof). People know when they have a manager that is in over his head.

[tower912]

Wojo has never made a team better than the sum of its parts.   Full stop.  He had an unbalanced roster this year. Two unused scholarships.  No wings.  Needed a 4th big.    That is on Wojo.   

A couple of players didn't live up to expectations.   That is just part of life.   So suddenly, a deep three  big guard offense to try to hide the lack of depth up front was no longer an option.   

Guards not being able to connect passes is part coaching, part the guards, and part switching the offense away from a true 4 out, part not having the normal amount of time to fully implement it.  Spacing was different.   

The chronic poor shooting is not that surprising.   Any Markus shot was really better than anybody else shooting.

I think Bailey could have helped this team.  His unexpected departure and the lack of a suitable replacement highlights one of my consistent criticisms of Wojo, lack of switchables.

But more, it highlights a second weakness of his recruiting style, which is a lack of adaptability when something goes sideways.   He never seems to have a back up plan.

So, a long way of saying that I think the problem of this season started with roster composition. Which is on Wojo. Which was exacerbated by a team that needed a full off-season more than any other in recent memory didn't get one.    And a team without depth had injuries.   Add Wojo being unable to be an alchemist and no better than an average coach and you get what this season was.  Consistent with the roster make up.  More impacted by injuries.   Beholden to the performance of young players and role players.   


Wildly inconsistent because Wojo needs to have Duke level talent to succeed.   Like I worried about when he was hired.

[hairy worthen]

Coaching (or lack thereof). People know when they have a manager that is in over his head.

Ok that's what I thought and that is exactly how I feel about their performance today.
That's what I mean by losing the team. Once a team gets to that point there is no going back.

[hairy worthen]

Wojo has never made a team better than the sum of its parts.   Full stop.  He had an unbalanced roster this year. Two unused scholarships.  No wings.  Needed a 4th big.    That is on Wojo.   

A couple of players didn't live up to expectations.   That is just part of life.   So suddenly, a deep three  big guard offense to try to hide the lack of depth up front was no longer an option.   

Guards not being able to connect passes is part coaching, part the guards, and part switching the offense away from a true 4 out, part not having the normal amount of time to fully implement it.  Spacing was different.   

The chronic poor shooting is not that surprising.   Any Markus shot was really better than anybody else shooting.

I think Bailey could have helped this team.  His unexpected departure and the lack of a suitable replacement highlights one of my consistent criticisms of Wojo, lack of switchables.

But more, it highlights a second weakness of his recruiting style, which is a lack of adaptability when something goes sideways.   He never seems to have a back up plan.

So, a long way of saying that I think the problem of this season started with roster composition. Which is on Wojo. Which was exacerbated by a team that needed a full off-season more than any other in recent memory didn't get one.    Add Wojo being unable to be an alchemist and no better than an average coach and you get what this season was.  Consistent with the roster make up.  More impacted by injuries.   Beholden to the performance of young players and role players.   


Wildly inconsistent because Wojo needs to have Duke level talent to succeed.   Like I worried about when he was hired.

Wow that's an awesome excuse essay.

 I am calling BS on not having enough time to implement the offense. Every team was in the same boat. You can teach 6th graders an offense in a week, why would it take all season? I agree with your other points. My problem with Wojo is THIS IS YEAR 7, And he is still in over his head.

[tower912]

Read the last sentence.


I've taught multiple middles school teams offense.   Boys and girls.   If you have players who listen, then you can install part of an offense over the course of 10 preseason practices.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Wow that's an awesome excuse essay.

What?  He pretty much laid out WHY the failures are on Wojo. How could you not see that?

[tower912]

What?  He pretty much laid out WHY the failures are on Wojo. How could you not see that?

Not enough vitriol.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Wildly inconsistent because Wojo needs to have Duke level talent to succeed. 

There is no evidence that this is true. 

[hairy worthen]

What?  He pretty much laid out WHY the failures are on Wojo. How could you not see that?

Did you read what I wrote, I agreed with his points except the point about having time to implement the offense. And yes lots of excuses in there also.

[tower912]

There is no evidence that this is true.

That he could succeed with Duke talent?

[Warrior_2002]

sub .500 in conference
0 NCAA tourney wins
0 BE conference titles
0 BET Finals appearances
7 years

Take your apologist word salad elsewhere.

Sub .500 BE record 4 years and at .500 BE record 1 year.  Add to it his best year ending conf play with 4 straight losses.  Just has to be done.

[hairy worthen]

Read the last sentence.


I've taught multiple middles school teams offense.   Boys and girls.   If you have players who listen, then you can install part of an offense over the course of 10 preseason practices.

As have I, for 40 years, and yes it depends on the individual team. In 10 practices a grade school team should be able to pick up a new offense, but we are talking about D1 college athletes, it shouldn't take a full season.