Blue Jay Way

[wadesworld]

The NBA and college basketball are vastly different styles of basketball. Good effort though.

So the better players are...worse at shooting it from deep?

Not buying that theory.

But maybe Wojo should have everyone switching all over the court. Guys like Theo, Dawson, and Justin, 3 of our top 6 rotational guys, are tailor made for that kind of defense.

[The Sultan]

So the better players are...worse at shooting it from deep?

Not buying that theory.

But maybe Wojo should have everyone switching all over the court. Guys like Theo, Dawson, and Justin, 3 of our top 6 rotational guys, are tailor made for that kind of defense.

The difference between the NBA and college isn't that great. About 2%.  The NBA distance is a factor.

[brewcity77]

So only one recruiting class would've been aware that Markus would be shooting whenever he wanted by the time they signed up to play at Marquette. He'd be around for one of their four years. So MAYBE he hurt our 2019 recruiting class.

I don't know, Traci Carter said Markus Howard was going to be Marquette's all-time scoring leader when he left. Between AAU & Team USA, as well as being Marquette's leading scorer from his freshman year, I think it was pretty clear early on what an instrumental part he would play offensively. Maybe 30-40 years ago this would've been the case, but anyone that watched MU in 2016-17 & was remotely aware of the amateur basketball scene had an idea of how good Howard would be at the college level.

[wadesworld]

I don't know, Traci Carter said Markus Howard was going to be Marquette's all-time scoring leader when he left. Between AAU & Team USA, as well as being Marquette's leading scorer from his freshman year, I think it was pretty clear early on what an instrumental part he would play offensively. Maybe 30-40 years ago this would've been the case, but anyone that watched MU in 2016-17 & was remotely aware of the amateur basketball scene had an idea of how good Howard would be at the college level.

Sure, I'm sure recruits knew Markus would be good.  But the idea that Markus being on the roster prevented Wojo from adding talent is a complete joke.  The reality is that the talent Wojo brought in has been roughly the same from before Markus was at Marquette, to the time Markus was at Marquette, and now after Markus had graduated.

[The Sultan]

I don't know, Traci Carter said Markus Howard was going to be Marquette's all-time scoring leader when he left. Between AAU & Team USA, as well as being Marquette's leading scorer from his freshman year, I think it was pretty clear early on what an instrumental part he would play offensively. Maybe 30-40 years ago this would've been the case, but anyone that watched MU in 2016-17 & was remotely aware of the amateur basketball scene had an idea of how good Howard would be at the college level.

M2NBA

[f/k/a humanlung]

Wish DJ had come here out of high school. Be a really solid second guard next to Markus for a year and get a bit of his always attack mentality.

I contend it wouldn't have mattered.

Name one single player, including Howard, who has materially improved an area of his game while being coached by Wojo at MU.  I cannot think of any.  Howard could score when he got here and could score when he left.  He wasn't a great passer when he got here and wasn't when he left.  Same for "D".

This lack of ability to develop players is why we see the same mistakes and deficiencies year after year.

[The Sultan]

I contend it wouldn't have mattered.

Name one single player, including Howard, who has materially improved an area of his game while being coached by Wojo at MU.  I cannot think of any.  Howard could score when he got here and could score when he left.  He wasn't a great passer when he got here and wasn't when he left.  Same for "D".

This lack of ability to develop players is why we see the same mistakes and deficiencies year after year.

Sacar Anim.

[wadesworld]

I contend it wouldn't have mattered.

Name one single player, including Howard, who has materially improved an area of his game while being coached by Wojo at MU.  I cannot think of any.  Howard could score when he got here and could score when he left.  He wasn't a great passer when he got here and wasn't when he left.  Same for "D".

This lack of ability to develop players is why we see the same mistakes and deficiencies year after year.

Sam, Markus, Sacar, Theo, Jamal

[MU82]

Sam, Markus, Sacar, Theo, Jamal

If a player improved, it was through his own hard work.

If a player didn't improve, it was because Wojo held him back.

Learn the rules!

[Lennys Tap]

Lol. So I'm a liar...

Yep. No way I didn't know Markus's eligibility was through when Bailey announced he was leaving. And you know that.

Thanks for coming clean.

[Silent Verbal]

Sure, I'm sure recruits knew Markus would be good.  But the idea that Markus being on the roster prevented Wojo from adding talent is a complete joke.  The reality is that the talent Wojo brought in has been roughly the same from before Markus was at Marquette, to the time Markus was at Marquette, and now after Markus had graduated.

So outside of Carton, Garcia, and Lewis, where is the talent?  And where was it last year?  If Wojo is bringing in the same talent consistently year after year, then he's either A.) not as good a recruiter as everyone says he is, or B.) a poor evaluator of talent.

[The Sultan]

So outside of Carton, Garcia, and Lewis, where is the talent?  And where was it last year?  If Wojo is bringing in the same talent consistently year after year, then he's either A.) not as good a recruiter as everyone says he is, or B.) a poor evaluator of talent.

Yep.  Serious possibility that next year could be worse than this year.

[wadesworld]

So outside of Carton, Garcia, and Lewis, where is the talent?  And where was it last year?  If Wojo is bringing in the same talent consistently year after year, then he's either A.) not as good a recruiter as everyone says he is, or B.) a poor evaluator of talent.

Yeah I have said many different places that the talent is vastly overrated. He's had fairly consistent classes based on their rankings. Whether those players were overrated or misused by Wojo, he's consistently brought in 1 or 2 four stars and 1 or 2 three stars. Sometimes a quality transfer and sometimes a transfer miss.

[wadesworld]

Yep. No way I didn't know Markus's eligibility was through when Bailey announced he was leaving. And you know that.

Thanks for coming clean.

So we're backtracking now. Got it.

I didn't make up that post. It's a direct quote of yours. Sorry that you don't like it and find it incredibly stupid. At least you see the light now.

[f/k/a humanlung]

Sam, Markus, Sacar, Theo, Jamal

I will give you Sacar.  He did vastly improve. 

The others I would argue against.  Sam was ready the day he set foot on campus until he voted with his feet and left.  Could shoot and pass when he got here but was defensively limited. Same as when he left.  Marcus I already covered, so we disagree.  Theo matured more than anything.  Finally learned what a stupid foul is but still goes for blocks way too often, exposing the rim.  Still limited offensively.  Jamal, I think there are others who have covered him here.  Perhaps too much criticism, imo, but it's been covered.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'm not sure what game y'all watched. Thought we played well overall. We got two 40% 3P shooters multiple wide open looks and they missed. Couldn't get it done. We get killed on the boards in a game where 1 big was playing on 1 knee, 1 was playing at maybe 50% for 8 minutes, and 1 was out. We won the eFG% battle and kept it close in TO% and FTR. Offensive boards were the difference.

That game was not an example of a bad team or bad coaching. The season on the other hand...

[f/k/a humanlung]

I'm not sure what game y'all watched. Thought we played well overall. We got two 40% 3P shooters multiple wide open looks and they missed. Couldn't get it done. We get killed on the boards in a game where 1 big was playing on 1 knee, 1 was playing at maybe 50% for 8 minutes, and 1 was out. We won the eFG% battle and kept it close in TO% and FTR. Offensive boards were the difference.

That game was not an example of a bad team or bad coaching. The season on the other hand...

TAMU, we were down double digits for most of the second half. It got close at the end because Creighton clearly took their for off the gas to run clock.  And that almost cost them the game.

Until the last few minutes, CU could do whatever they wanted.

The announcers, repeatedly (and correctly) pointed out the size advantage we had with Theo and Garcia.  We did not exploit this and, in fact, we were outplayed on the boards and inside.

That's coaching.  I'm sorry but it is.

[wadesworld]

I will give you Sacar.  He did vastly improve. 

The others I would argue against.  Sam was ready the day he set foot on campus until he voted with his feet and left.  Could shoot and pass when he got here but was defensively limited. Same as when he left.  Marcus I already covered, so we disagree.  Theo matured more than anything.  Finally learned what a stupid foul is but still goes for blocks way too often, exposing the rim.  Still limited offensively.  Jamal, I think there are others who have covered him here.  Perhaps too much criticism, imo, but it's been covered.

If you can't see how much Jamal improved or Markus developed his all around game beyond shooting from freshman to senior year, or Sam developing beyond a spot up sniper from 3, then I guess I'll just say you're right. Nobody has gotten better under Wojo. Even though Markus went from not even All BE as a freshman to First Team All American as a senior. No development though.

Ignorance is bliss.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU, we were down double digits for most of the second half. It got close at the end because Creighton clearly took their for off the gas to run clock.  And that almost cost them the game.

They did? Creighton never led by more than 12 (51-39 with 12:31 left) and that only happened once. Literally every time Creighton pushed it to double digits, Marquette scored on their next possession to cut it to single digits, except for twice (when they were leading by 10 and pushed their lead to 12 in the example above) and once at the 11:25 mark when Creighton pushed the lead to 11, Jose missed a three, then Creighton turned it over and Carton dunked it to cut it to 9 again. The last time that Creighton had a double digit lead, there was over 6 minutes left in the game. It was within 2 possessions with over 5 minutes left. That doesn't seem to match your narrative.

[hairy worthen]

So outside of Carton, Garcia, and Lewis, where is the talent?  And where was it last year?  If Wojo is bringing in the same talent consistently year after year, then he's either A.) not as good a recruiter as everyone says he is, or B.) a poor evaluator of talent.

Its both A and B. He brings in a good player here and there, but doesn't bring  in a good team. On top of that there is no identity and no system to recruit to. You can bring in lesser players if you have a system that they can fit. Wisconsin is a perfect example.

[MU82]

I'm not sure what game y'all watched. Thought we played well overall. We got two 40% 3P shooters multiple wide open looks and they missed. Couldn't get it done. We get killed on the boards in a game where 1 big was playing on 1 knee, 1 was playing at maybe 50% for 8 minutes, and 1 was out. We won the eFG% battle and kept it close in TO% and FTR. Offensive boards were the difference.

That game was not an example of a bad team or bad coaching. The season on the other hand...

When your two most talented players disappear for long stretches, I think coaching does factor in. I mean we can't afford to go 5-10 mins of DJ playing passively or Dawson not touching the ball.

Agree about the open looks, though. Hard to fault Wojo when Cain and Elliott can't knock em down.

Also, as usual, Wojo's team kept battling. That doesn't earn them extra gold stars or anything —they are supposed to keep battling — but given that several Scoopers are dying to say they've quit on Wojo (I know, because several already have incorrectly said they have), it's worth bringing up.

Unlike some Scoopers, I don't think Wojo "sucks" or is an "embarrassment." It's just time.

My problem with Wojo is a body-of-work one. 7 years ... one time contending for (and ultimately blowing) a conference title ... zero NCAA wins ... numerous meltdowns against the likes of DePaul ... 2 end-of-season collapses (and possibly 3 straight counting this year) ... Hausershima ... etc.

We can do better.

[79Warrior]

I'm not sure what game y'all watched. Thought we played well overall. We got two 40% 3P shooters multiple wide open looks and they missed. Couldn't get it done. We get killed on the boards in a game where 1 big was playing on 1 knee, 1 was playing at maybe 50% for 8 minutes, and 1 was out. We won the eFG% battle and kept it close in TO% and FTR. Offensive boards were the difference.

That game was not an example of a bad team or bad coaching. The season on the other hand...

Truth is we have played almost every game close this season. Unfortunately, we have been on the losing end of most of them. They do not quit.

[Scoop Snoop]

When your two most talented players disappear for long stretches, I think coaching does factor in. I mean we can't afford to go 5-10 mins of DJ playing passively or Dawson not touching the ball.

Agree about the open looks, though. Hard to fault Wojo when Cain and Elliott can't knock em down.

Also, as usual, Wojo's team kept battling. That doesn't earn them extra gold stars or anything —they are supposed to keep battling — but given that several Scoopers are dying to say they've quit on Wojo (I know, because several already have incorrectly said they have), it's worth bringing up.

Unlike some Scoopers, I don't think Wojo "sucks" or is an "embarrassment." It's just time.

My problem with Wojo is a body-of-work one. 7 years ... one time contending for (and ultimately blowing) a conference title ... zero NCAA wins ... numerous meltdowns against the likes of DePaul ... 2 end-of-season collapses (and possibly 3 straight counting this year) ... Hausershima ... etc.

We can do better.

Very fair. It is simply time.

I keep hoping that Wojo will leave on his own at the end of this season but I doubt that he is very marketable to P5 teams where he could go without taking a huge pay cut.

[bilsu]

I come to the conclusion that Carton and McEwen are a worse guard combo than Wilson and Thomas. They have more natural talent, but they make way to many mistakes.

[Silent Verbal]

I come to the conclusion that Carton and McEwen are a worse guard combo than Wilson and Thomas. They have more natural talent, but they make way to many mistakes.

No guard combo will ever be as bad as Wilson and Thomas.  That would've been a horrible guard combo on a low major team.  Let us never speak of that again.