learning to win?

[MU82]

It was pretty easy to support Wojo the first 5 years. Aside from a very small blip in Year 4, there was steady progress.

But this will be the second straight year we have taken a pretty big step backward. When you include that, along with the body of work, it's just not good enough.

[Galway Eagle]

It was pretty easy to support Wojo the first 5 years. Aside from a very small blip in Year 4, there was steady progress.

But this will be the second straight year we have taken a pretty big step backward. When you include that, along with the body of work, it's just not good enough.

When I was in sales you were expected to hit 100% target, but you weren't put on PIP if you hit 70% (or 80 it's been awhile). That's how I feel about Wojo in all the years leading up to this. He's been hitting the absolute floor of expectations to not get fired or even on the hot seat while leaving a lot to be desired.

[MU82]

When I was in sales you were expected to hit 100% target, but you weren't put on PIP if you hit 70% (or 80 it's been awhile). That's how I feel about Wojo in all the years leading up to this. He's been hitting the absolute floor of expectations to not get fired or even on the hot seat while leaving a lot to be desired.

Yeah ... he's a real PIP!

[Silent Verbal]

Age is important.

Talent is more important.

Aged talent is most important.

Our oldest players are two guys who were the 4/5 starters last season and two guys who are career bench pieces. They are old but have never been the most talented players on our team.

Our most talented players are a guy who played half a season at another school before transferring and two guys who were in high school last season. They are talented but are not old.

This is what a down year looks like. The old talented players from the last recruiting cycle graduated. Leaving behind older ancillary players and the younger talented players from the new recruiting cycle.

However, a good coach at this point should have the team making the tournament even in a down year.

Assuming Carton, Garcia, and Lewis all return (big assumption regarding Carton), I anticipate that the team will be significantly better than this season. Add an impact transfer at the 2-3 position and I think we could be really good next season.

So far this season has been a turd, and now it's being rationalized away.  Nice.

We were told to wait until years 5 and 6 of the Wojo regime, because Howard and Hauser would be seniors and we'd be really, really good.  Well, we were good for about 2/3 of year 5, and from there it was basically a dumpster fire.

If nothing else, Wojo's time at Marquette has shown that you can't rebuild in college basketball like you can in pro sports.  Developing a young core that'll be good three years from now (or even next year) is a bad strategy because too much can happen in the interim.  Guys go pro, transfer, get injured, etc.  Every year, you have to play for THAT year like it's the only year that matters.  Sometimes that'll blow up in your face (see Buzz's team in 2013-14), and sometimes it'll work out great (see Buzz in every other season he coached at Marquette).  Every year under Wojo, with the exception of years 5 and 6, we've been playing for next year.  And every year, next year hasn't been the year.

[MarquetteDano]

If nothing else, Wojo's time at Marquette has shown that you can't rebuild in college basketball like you can in pro sports.  Developing a young core that'll be good three years from now (or even next year) is a bad strategy because too much can happen in the interim.  Guys go pro, transfer, get injured, etc.  Every year, you have to play for THAT year like it's the only year that matters.  Sometimes that'll blow up in your face (see Buzz's team in 2013-14), and sometimes it'll work out great (see Buzz in every other season he coached at Marquette).  Every year under Wojo, with the exception of years 5 and 6, we've been playing for next year.  And every year, next year hasn't been the year.

There are coaches who build quick,  some who build long.  I think building long is doable,  even in today's game with transfers/guys going pro.

The problem is Wojo has not proven he can do either.

[buckchuckler]

I anticipate that the team will be significantly better than this season. Add an impact transfer at the 2-3 position and I think we could be really good next season.

This has been the story every year Wojo has been the coach.  Next year, man, look out. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So far this season has been a turd, and now it's being rationalized away.  Nice.

No. I've been saying this since last season ended. You can check. And you may have missed

However, a good coach at this point should have the team making the tournament even in a down year.

And again, I'm on record multiple times of saying that I will want Wojo gone if we don't make the tournament this season. No one is rationalizing anything.

If nothing else, Wojo's time at Marquette has shown that you can't rebuild in college basketball like you can in pro sports.  Developing a young core that'll be good three years from now (or even next year) is a bad strategy because too much can happen in the interim.  Guys go pro, transfer, get injured, etc.  Every year, you have to play for THAT year like it's the only year that matters.  Sometimes that'll blow up in your face (see Buzz's team in 2013-14), and sometimes it'll work out great (see Buzz in every other season he coached at Marquette).  Every year under Wojo, with the exception of years 5 and 6, we've been playing for next year.  And every year, next year hasn't been the year.

You can dispute this all you want, but its the pattern that most programs follow. Certainly don't tell it to Buzz, he's tanked his first two seasons here at TAMU in favor of building culture and bringing in his players.

This has been the story every year Wojo has been the coach.  Next year, man, look out. 

No it hasn't. Year 3 was supposed to be better than Year 4. Year 5 and Year 6 weren't about next year they were about that year. Year 5 was good, year 6 wasn't good enough.

[MU82]

You can dispute this all you want, but its the pattern that most programs follow. Certainly don't tell it to Buzz, he's tanked his first two seasons here at TAMU in favor of building culture and bringing in his players.

Scoopers who fondly remember S16-S16-E8 think Buzz has been an immediate smash at every stop.

He went 14-17 his only year at New Orleans.

He went 11-22 his first year at Va Tech and followed that with an NIT season.

He went 16-14 last year at TAMU and has done nothing of note this season -- unless one counts his team somehow managing to avoid scoring a single point in the last 8:50 of a recent loss.

Buzz was incredibly fortunate to inherit the Amigos and Lazar when he was promoted to Marquette's head coach in 2008 (against the objections of lots of Scoopers, BTW).

I am NOT trying to claim Wojo has been or ever will be as good as Buzz. He hasn't been and he won't be.

But Buzz is a perfect example of how it almost always takes a new coach - even a very good coach - 2-4 years to start building anything worthwhile.

Those who think that if Wojo gets fired our next coach will step in and immediately have a BEast contender are delusional -- unless that coach can somehow convince our good players to stay and our recruits to remain committed. That's highly unlikely. But even then, there probably would be a transition period.

Even knowing all that, I still would fire Wojo.

[tower912]

There aren't a lot of Butler's, Crowder's, DJOs, or Buycks in the JUCO  pipeline.

[Silent Verbal]

You can dispute this all you want, but its the pattern that most programs follow. Certainly don't tell it to Buzz, he's tanked his first two seasons here at TAMU in favor of building culture and bringing in his players.

Buzz was the Associated Press SEC coach of the year last year.  The team was picked to finish 12th in the league, but ended up 10-8 in SEC play and tied for sixth in conference.  Sounds like a real tank job to me!

[brewcity77]

Those who think that if Wojo gets fired our next coach will step in and immediately have a BEast contender are delusional -- unless that coach can somehow convince our good players to stay and our recruits to remain committed. That's highly unlikely. But even then, there probably would be a transition period.

I agree that most coaches likely would need 2-3 years before they started to have much success. I do think there are a few that would hit the ground running at a program like Marquette. That said, I don't expect Marquette will go after someone that can do that (even Chris Beard needed two years at Texas Tech).

[burger]

Softness is a problem....

Play everyone......See what you have.....

And make changes for next year......

See who really wants to be here and play hard.....

[MU82]

Buzz was the Associated Press SEC coach of the year last year.  The team was picked to finish 12th in the league, but ended up 10-8 in SEC play and tied for sixth in conference.  Sounds like a real tank job to me!

"Tanked" might not have been the right word for TAMU to have used, but Texas A&M wasn't a tourney team last season, and it isn't in the brackets this season. As good a coach as Buzz is, he could not build the kind of team Marquette fans want in 2 years. He didn't do it at Va Tech either.

But he did do it in 3 years at Va Tech, and I wouldn't bet against him having a fine team next season at TAMU.

To expect somebody to do it faster at Marquette is unrealistic. That's all I'm saying, and I think TAMU is saying the same.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Buzz was the Associated Press SEC coach of the year last year.  The team was picked to finish 12th in the league, but ended up 10-8 in SEC play and tied for sixth in conference.  Sounds like a real tank job to me!

I honestly didn't know Buzz won the AP SEC Coach of the Year. Good for him. Now here's the context for the rest of your post.

10-8 in conference....in an SEC with more teams ranked lower than 128 in KenPom (2) than teams ranked in the top 28 (0). Of the 10 conference wins, 5 came against teams ranked 96 or lower in KenPom. 7 came against teams ranked 60 or lower, 9 came against teams ranked 47 or lower.

Speaking of KenPom, Texas A&M was ranked 57th preseason in Buzz' first year. They finished the season 131st.

They finished the season 16-14, meaning that they went 6-6 in the nonconference with losses to the mighty Harvard (110 KP), Temple (115 KP), and Fairfield (303 KP). Not to mention wins over UL Monroe (252 KP)...by 6, Texas Southern (278 KP)...by 3, Troy (293 KP)...by 4, and TAMU-CC (303 KP)...by 3.

I'm sure if Wojo had turned in these results you would have been trumpeting it as a successful season.

But you helped prove my point. Buzz drove off and benched some of Kennedy's players that could have helped him win early but instead he torched the beginning of the season to help establish his players in the way that he wanted to play. By the end of the season, they were improving and won 5 of their last 7 which included their 4 best wins of the season. Buzz did the same thing at Virginia Tech and even to an extent at Marquette after the amigos graduated.