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Author Topic: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.  (Read 5189 times)

Mutaman

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #125 on: December 01, 2020, 11:31:54 PM »
Dodd's the tool already blocked me this year after I posted the only bad matchup tonight was the head coach....

he is already spouting off the "rebuilding year" excuse -   hmm, we are now in the 3rd rebuild in 7 years of Wojo....

Dodds' place hasn't been the same since they got rid of their sophisticated political forum.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #126 on: December 01, 2020, 11:35:11 PM »
Terrible offensive gameplan against the zone. Players just stood around, no off the ball movement, the absolute last thing you need against a zone. It would be one thing if the players tried but failed to execute against the zone. Then you can cut some slack and say a young team facing its first zone couldn't execute, they'll learn. This was not that. There was no semblance of a zone break offense. That's a coaching issue.

I know his shot was off, but Garcia needed to play 30+ minutes tonight. He is the ideal zone breaking player. He was the tallest guy on the court. I would have parked him at the free throw line every possession, gotten him the ball and let him shoot, drive, or playmake. There would have been misses, but they would have been better shots than what we were getting. I saw that happen three times in the second half. Two led to missed shots, one lead to a three by Cain. 3 points in 3 possession is a ppp of 1. That would have been more than enough to get a win. Again, this is a coaching issue.

I know we had concerns about their length, but we saw almost no lineups with Torrence and Carton together. I think those have been our most offensively efficient lineups to this point. Might have been worth trying in order to jump start the offense.

The box score says Theo had 6 TOs, is that correct? Length was bothering him down there but he missed a couple of wide open shooters when the defense collapsed on him. He was making those passes in the first two games.

With the team we have, we should never be slowing the game down and shooting in the last 5 seconds. Obviously, we should look for the best shot, but I think it is okay for us to have a quick trigger. Our rebounders will almost always be better than our opponents. Even if we miss, I think we have a very good chance of getting the offensive board and an easier shot on the second chance. Lewis with 13 boards in 22 minutes, that was a treat.

Symir's shot was terrible tonight. Tons of open looks for three, none of them even looked close to going in.

I wouldn't judge Akanno too harshly. Dude has had like two practices with the rest of the team. I think under normal circumstances, he would have been an ideal player for this game. These were not normal circumstances.

Every one of Carton's threes look like they are going in. I hope he doesn't have what Koby did last year. Once those shots start falling, I think we will see the team come together.

Koby was a dude tonight. 21 points with an eFG% of 50% (in a game where the team shot 40.6 eFG%).4 assists to 3 turnovers (in a game where the team had A/TO ratio of 13 to 24). And played stellar D on a future NBA All Star. I'd have to rewatch to be sure but I'm pretty sure Cunningham was 2 for 7 in the half court with Koby being the primary defender, and the two he made were contested mid-range jumpers.

The offensive gameplan pissed me off to no end. The only plus side I can come up with is that despite an awful offensive gameplan, we still had a chance to win this one. We shot uncharacteristically poorly from the line, we had a dumb technical foul, Cain/Carton/Torrence/Elliott/McEwen all had wide open looks from three that they couldn't convert on. Even with an atrocious attack against the zone, we could have the won the game and that's because of our defense and rebounding.

Beat Wisconsin and all is forgiven. Beat UCLA instead of Wisconsin and we are back on track for where we should be. Beat both and we won't even remember this game happened.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 11:43:52 PM by TAMU Eagle »
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

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TAMU Eagle

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #127 on: December 01, 2020, 11:38:24 PM »
This game was an embarassment!!  MU looked like a pick up squad on which the players had never met before. Intiminated, not aggressive, no clue as to how to attack a zone, no adjustments by the coaching staff at halftime or any other. Shooting and rebounding (except  for Theo) was uninspired and shameful. Inexcusable -- standing around faking a pass and/or a drive to the basket is not an offense. Garcia and Carton were non-factors. WI will feast.

Gameplan agreed.
Shooting agreed.
Rebounding? We outrebounded them 16 to 8 on the offensive glass and 27 to 26 on the defensive glass. John was great was on the boards but can I introduce you to Cain and Lewis? The three of them outrebounded Oklahoma State by themselves!
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

HutchwasClutch

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #128 on: December 01, 2020, 11:41:32 PM »

Beat Wisconsin and all is forgiven. Beat UCLA instead of Wisconsin and we are back on track for where we should be. Beat both and we won't even remember this game happened.

Dream on.

CountryRoads

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #129 on: December 02, 2020, 12:19:26 AM »
A few of Carton’s threes were halfway down, but I was expecting him to be a major impact player for MU this year. If that’s not the case, then expectations plummet to a bottom half big east team (in a weak conference this year) and an NIT bubble team. Carton and Garcia need to grow up very fast for this team to have any chance of an NCAA bid. Lewis looks promising and Theo looks improved/healthy, but this team is counting on Carton and Dawson to be the top two players. Everyone else you pretty much know what you are going to get (for this year anyway) and I don’t think it will cut it for NCAA unless those 2 play like all conference players.

ATWizJr

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #130 on: December 02, 2020, 12:29:40 AM »
We'll see.  The growth curve is what matters now.
for wojo.

5DollarPitcher

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #131 on: December 02, 2020, 12:29:47 AM »
Also though, any fan yelling "fire wojo" is an idiot.  I'm just a fan that hopes Marquette plays well and entertains me.
You need to try not to conflate disdain for Wojo with general disdain for MUBB. It’s a complete fallacy to paint those of us that have seen enough Wojo for one lifetime as traitorous MU fans.

I know what MUBB can be. And I know what they are not right now. It’s kind of like seeing your best friend lose his personality while in a relationship with a toxic new girlfriend. You don’t want the relationship to end because you hate your buddy and want to see him unhappy. Quite the opposite actually.

I too want Marquette to do well and to entertain me. Under Wojo’s watch, there hasn’t been much of either of those things.

4everwarriors

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #132 on: December 02, 2020, 05:26:35 AM »
Cunningham > Carton, aina?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #133 on: December 02, 2020, 07:50:16 AM »
Koby was very good tonight.  And that was about it.

I would start DJ over Symir.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 07:52:20 AM by Fluffy Blue Monster »
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tower912

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #134 on: December 02, 2020, 07:59:35 AM »
Koby was very good tonight.  And that was about it.

I would start DJ over Symir.

Agree with both.   
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Vander Blue Man Group

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #135 on: December 02, 2020, 08:19:27 AM »
Cunningham > Carton, aina?

What’s your point?  No one here is arguing Carton is better than a potential top 3 pick in next year’s draft.

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #136 on: December 02, 2020, 08:28:48 AM »
What’s your point?  No one here is arguing Carton is better than a potential top 3 pick in next year’s draft.

Agreed.  He also says we need more five star players.  No one can argue that point either but it hasn’t happened since AL. 

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #137 on: December 02, 2020, 08:29:31 AM »
Also TAMU, great summary.

Scoop Snoop

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #138 on: December 02, 2020, 08:58:11 AM »
You need to try not to conflate disdain for Wojo with general disdain for MUBB. It’s a complete fallacy to paint those of us that have seen enough Wojo for one lifetime as traitorous MU fans.

I know what MUBB can be. And I know what they are not right now. It’s kind of like seeing your best friend lose his personality while in a relationship with a toxic new girlfriend. You don’t want the relationship to end because you hate your buddy and want to see him unhappy. Quite the opposite actually.

I too want Marquette to do well and to entertain me. Under Wojo’s watch, there hasn’t been much of either of those things.

I have honestly hoped (and still do) that Wojo will prove me wrong. I keep hoping that eventually he will dunk on all of his many critics here. Unfortunately, there is little reason to believe he ever will. What ever happened to "Five Years to Judge?".

I think the turning point after Wojo is gone will be identified as the embarrassing, humiliating  Murray State game. Two days later one of the commentators said it all perfectly during the FSU/Murray State game. "Notice how the FSU players stay in their defensive positions. You don't see 5 guys collapsing on Morant." OUCH! The reason I say that the Murray State game will be seen as the pivotal game is the expression on Sam's face coming out of the early second half time out that Wojo called. His departure simply took a little while but I think it was the tipping point.   

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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #139 on: December 02, 2020, 09:06:20 AM »
I know we had concerns about their length, but we saw almost no lineups with Torrence and Carton together. I think those have been our most offensively efficient lineups to this point. Might have been worth trying in order to jump start the offense.

Could you expound on the Sy/DJ point? They have played together about 9% of the time and these two are the most offensively inefficient so far of the entire roster with time. Both have been dribbling East-West without much of a purpose other than bogging down the offense, and have really high turnover rates...just like they did last year. It is not an aberration and I would say DJ's handle is worse than Howard's...so I get your angle that DJ should be the 2 guard (if only his shots start falling).

Although it's early and there are certainly flashes, I am moving to the place where MU should move Koby back to PG (22.4 assist rate and 18.9 TO rate which are both better than the aforementioned two). Not ideal but he is at least making plays.

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #140 on: December 02, 2020, 09:13:46 AM »
The first big test each season often comes with a huge gut punch.  There's a ton of time this season to correct and for improvement.  However, it has definitely become an alarming trend.  It's one thing to lose, but to lose playing ugly and undisciplined once again is a red flag.  Lavin last night offered cover and support for Wojo near the end of the game, using the pandemic, the lack of practices to implement schemes, the introduction of new players to the team, etc.  However, how did OK State with Boynton accomplish to incorporate their full court and half court zone looks, with many freshmen and new pieces, and adapt to Cunningham not going off? 

Every program is in similar positions this year with regards to lack of practice and preparation.  The coaching staffs that are skilled at in-game adjustments and instruction will have teams that are in better position to win and compete.  Last night provided no assurances that this will be the case. 

Silent Verbal

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #141 on: December 02, 2020, 09:17:09 AM »
What ever happened to "Five Years to Judge?".

When it became clear that five years wouldn’t be enough to “judge” Wojo, the line turned into, “Lots of stuff happened under Buzz.  This is how things are now.  If you don’t like it, find another team to root for.”

brewcity77

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #142 on: December 02, 2020, 09:20:18 AM »
TAMU said much of what I thought. What bewildered me was the zone offense. If I recall correctly, we saw their zone in the first half. How do you have that much time and not significantly adjust? I get that we lost the most effective flamethrower in the country, but there was nothing. It was either dribble around until the shot clock ran down or force a 1-on-3 drive.

Get Garcia in the middle of the zone, overload one side to open up a shooter on the opposite side, move the ball, do something.

What was frustrating is that the defense was pretty good. It was a good enough effort that we should've won, but the inability for anyone to create and missing shots on the rare opportunity when we did get decent looks just killed us. Once they stretched their lead to 7, even though it wasn't that far away, it never felt like we would get back in it. That was just 10 minutes of frustration and offensive ineptitude against the zone.

On the plus side, Wisconsin won't zone and doesn't have the athleticism to do what OSU did to us. I don't expect Friday to look anything like this. Doesn't mean I expect a win, but we won't lose in the same fashion. Of course, once the teams in the Big East see this tape...eek.
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Spaniel with a Short Tail

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #143 on: December 02, 2020, 09:49:07 AM »
The university will hire and fire at their will.  I just try to enjoy what we have, and hope for the best.

This X 1000. Already looking forward to Friday. (Though agree with most of TAMU post.)

Autoengineer

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #144 on: December 02, 2020, 09:59:08 AM »
The way MU slow walked the ball up and played catch on their side of the court with that light press drove me nuts.  It guaranteed they had a short play clock on nearly every possession. 

GB Warrior

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #145 on: December 02, 2020, 09:59:54 AM »
My takeaways:
1a. This team might miss Sacar more than Markus at this point. No slashers on this team.

1b. No one on this team seems capable of creating their own shot, and I'm not quite clear what plays Wojo is running on offense to open things out. Brutal combo. Maybe this is just a symptom of 2 lost weeks of practice; maybe it's year 7 of Wojo.

1c.Our guards struggled to make good use of the PnR all night. We'd screen, and then hesitate to either fire or cut. If you're going to do that, just pick and pop Theo the entire game for comedic value.

2. In his run tonight, Garcia also seemed to confirm that he is best suited as a 4, even if Lewis or someone shorter is playing the 5. Feeding Garcia in the high post should open up a lot of opportunities for himself and others, but he has to do less standing around to get himself those looks.

3. Lewis was the most impressive player tonight. Some sloppiness and turnovers when he tried to put it on the deck, but the kid hustles all the time.
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jesmu84

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #146 on: December 02, 2020, 10:13:04 AM »
The way MU slow walked the ball up and played catch on their side of the court with that light press drove me nuts.  It guaranteed they had a short play clock on nearly every possession.

Yup.

If they couldn't beat the half-court zone, then have to try and beat the press with speed.

Scoop Snoop

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #147 on: December 02, 2020, 10:13:28 AM »
When it became clear that five years wouldn’t be enough to “judge” Wojo, the line turned into, “Lots of stuff happened under Buzz.  This is how things are now.  If you don’t like it, find another team to root for.”

Loyalty to our country and loyalty to a president are 2 entirely different things, just as loyalty to Marquette and loyalty to Wojo are not linked. "If you don't like it..." is simply a knee jerk response and an attempt to stifle legitimate criticism of Wojo.

Wojo's high water mark was just before the meltdown in his 5th year. I was extremely happy to having to eat my words, at least for a while.

Last night was just the latest example of Wojo proving Einstein's definition of insanity- doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.

To repeat- I really, really hope that Wojo pulls it all together but I do not expect him to do so on an ongoing basis. There will be games when he looks like he has turned the corner but will it last? 
"Your words don't mean anything to me. Argument doesn't have any effect on me."
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Vander Blue Man Group

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #148 on: December 02, 2020, 10:28:32 AM »
TAMU said much of what I thought. What bewildered me was the zone offense. If I recall correctly, we saw their zone in the first half. How do you have that much time and not significantly adjust? I get that we lost the most effective flamethrower in the country, but there was nothing. It was either dribble around until the shot clock ran down or force a 1-on-3 drive.

Get Garcia in the middle of the zone, overload one side to open up a shooter on the opposite side, move the ball, do something.

What was frustrating is that the defense was pretty good. It was a good enough effort that we should've won, but the inability for anyone to create and missing shots on the rare opportunity when we did get decent looks just killed us. Once they stretched their lead to 7, even though it wasn't that far away, it never felt like we would get back in it. That was just 10 minutes of frustration and offensive ineptitude against the zone.

On the plus side, Wisconsin won't zone and doesn't have the athleticism to do what OSU did to us. I don't expect Friday to look anything like this. Doesn't mean I expect a win, but we won't lose in the same fashion. Of course, once the teams in the Big East see this tape...eek.

They did put Garcia in the middle of the zone but Ok St. did a nice job having another player shade towards him to take it away. The problem for there was we had no other answers, either to find another way to get him the ball in the high post or another way to attack the zone. Either way it was incredibly disappointing. 

1SE

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Re: Fast cowboys. Not just a country song.
« Reply #149 on: December 02, 2020, 10:36:09 AM »
Loyalty to our country and loyalty to a president are 2 entirely different things, just as loyalty to Marquette and loyalty to Wojo are not linked. "If you don't like it..." is simply a knee jerk response and an attempt to stifle legitimate criticism of Wojo.

Wojo's high water mark was just before the meltdown in his 5th year. I was extremely happy to having to eat my words, at least for a while.

Last night was just the latest example of Wojo proving Einstein's definition of insanity- doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.

To repeat- I really, really hope that Wojo pulls it all together but I do not expect him to do so on an ongoing basis. There will be games when he looks like he has turned the corner but will it last?

It's the most frustrating thing about him - there have been these glimpses where it looks like he's putting it together and we've turned a corner. Then we lose 7 of 8.

Nothing would make me happier than for Wojo to succeed, but he ain't doing it.
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