Fine-buff

[tower912]

1.  UAPB is not good.
2.  Theo played with a broken wrist last year.   He played like a brute tonight.   Liked how he tried to be a peacemaker during that little dust up.
3.  Ball movement was superb. 
4.  Bad things still happen when Cain dribbles.
5.  Garcia was a natural at the high post against the zone.  A keeper.
6.  Lewis is just a big kid who will need to grow into it.   Should be fun to watch.  I hope he is ok.   Ugly fall.
7.  I thought Greg still looked like he is recovering.
8.  All 10 scholarship players scored.
9.  Playing time is going to work itself out.   I hope Wojo keeps spreading the minutes around.
10.   Where would Dexter's minutes come from?
11.  Would have liked to have seen some 4 guard stuff.   Or Cain at the 4.
12.   The zone never seemed to confuse a young team.   Perhaps because UAPB was so small.
13.  Defensive intensity was nice.
14.  It was UAPB.   It was fun.

[wadesworld]

Dexter’s minutes would come from Cain and Symir. I think those two will struggle to give us much against high major talent.

But it’ll be hard to get minutes with him missing this much time.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Or even Koby. I don’t think he played poorly, but he just seems to be the odd one out in this offense right now.

Then again, it’s one game against a terrible team. It’s like trying to dissect Marquette madness.

[chicagowarrior]

Any MU basketball on TV is fun

Good game

[forgetful]

My two and a half take home messages.

1. We will be a tough team to zone. Great interior passing and Garcia in the high post is great.

2. We shouldn't have any problems handling the full-court press this year. Carton and Symir can break a press.

2.5. It was great to watch basketball again.

[CAGASS24]

Gonna love the perimeter d and size and we looked long up and down the roster - yet still stroked pretty well - gonna be a fun year

[MU82]

It was Pine Bluff ... but it still was fun to have some MU hoops to watch.

Very excited to see more from the new guys. Garcia would start for any school in the country. Carton got out of control a couple of times, and one time I worried he hurt himself; thankfully he hadn't. Can see he is extremely talented, though.

I liked our defensive length and hands. Will be interesting to see if it still looks impressive against a real team.

Theo was like a man among boys.

[mug644]

So fun to have MU ball again, and to see so many positives, despite the opponent.

I agree with Tower’s concern about Cain dribbling, and one concern I have about his good output tonight is that he’ll think he can do all he was able to do tonight against any team. I’ve always thought that he gets into trouble when he is too ambitious.

Love Garcia. I think Koby will find a solid role on this team. DJ, yes. Symir, steady presence and hit his open shots (won’t have so many in BEast play).

MU b-ball!!

[5DollarPitcher]

I may regret saying this later on in the season but this team passes the eye test. I saw defensive effort like I have never seen from a Wojo team. I will leave open the possibility that Pine Bluff is the worst team in Division 1 because they certainly played like it.

[mileskishnish72]

Hard to take much away from a game against a small bad team. Great to see MU basketball again.

[DoctorV]

Any MU basketball on TV is fun

Good game

Plus one.

It was fun.
Theo was a beast, let’s see it in conference
Dawson was what we hoped he would be, plays more veteran than you’d expect
Cain was great, just less threes please
Lewis has it inside, watch the fouls
Carton is the biggest revelation imo- he had a crapty stat line but he affected the entire game a ton for a line like that. On the flip side, I don’t see where the scoring will come from from him?

Koby, Ellitott, Symir, Greg, Perez all what I would expect, but Perez more

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

Glad to see Tower's post game back.

[Not A Serious Person]

The last time a freshman started the first game of the season and led in scoring, like Garcia did tonight  ... Henry Elllenson in 2015 against Belmont.

The difference is MU lost against Belmont.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Glad to see Tower's post game back.

Plus 1977

[Big Papi]

Dawson is going to be a stud.  Love his all around game.
Same Theo defense, much improved free throw shooting.
Expected more from DJ although he had a solid game.
Not a fan of Torrence's shot but I liked his awareness in the open court.
I don't see much improvement from Koby.
Perez looks slow.
Oso looks uber athletic.
Cain looks confident which is a plus.
Elliott needs to get and stay healthy.
Lewis has some inside game already.
Loved the ball movement.
Loved the unselfishness
Defense looks improved.
This team has upside.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Think Perez will come into his own around conference time.

He’s probably been practicing with the scout team the majority of the time since I don’t think anybody expected him to get a waiver.

[DoctorV]

“Perez looks slow”

Yes absolutely, and that is my favorite part about him.

Old man Perez will have more and more moxie as the season gets deeper and deeper

[MUfan12]

As the owner of plenty old man game I prefer crafty to slow.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

This may as well have been a D3 exhibition game.  It was nice to see some things but really am not drawing conclusions until I see better competition.  Friday will be tougher.  Next week much tougher. 

[tower912]

Under different circumstances, I would have lamented the lack of walk  ons.   Last night, it was important to get the new guys as many minutes as possible.

[muwarrior69]

15. I didn't like the fake crowd noise on TV.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

15. I didn't like the fake crowd noise on TV.

My understanding was that noise was pumped in at Fiserv.  And yeah it was terrible.  Someone mentioned in the game thread that it sounded like crowd noise from a 20 year old video game.  I really hope that ends.

The fake crowd noise at all these sporting events is dumb.  It doesn't sound right, and its obvious no one is in the stands.

[HutchwasClutch]

This may as well have been a D3 exhibition game.  It was nice to see some things but really am not drawing conclusions until I see better competition.  Friday will be tougher.  Next week much tougher.

Yes to all. APB is exhibit A there are way too many schools masquerading as D1. They were one of the worst opponents in recent memory.

Garcia is so smooth and talented.  Looks like he may like up to hype and then some. 

Maybe some returning guys will end up playing more confident out of Howard’s shadow too. That’s how it appeared last night, but won’t know until we play some bona fide programs.

[Uncle Rico]

Covered.  Next

[We R Final Four]

14 TOs and several other tipped passes against that team is waaaaay too many.

[brewcity77]

At least some of the crowd noise isn't fake, but it's not live. They asked fans to submit "We Are Marquette" chants to include with the noise. So when they have the chant, it's the compilation of a number of fan submitted audio files.

[tower912]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1acJ2hmQ7I

Post game interview

[Lennys Tap]

Very excited to see more from the new guys. Garcia would start for any school in the country.

I was very impressed with Garcia. But crowning him the best player at his position in the country might be a little premature.

[PGsHeroes32]

I was very impressed with Garcia. But crowning him the best player at his position in the country might be a little premature.

Not saying it’s 100% correct

But I think he’s also alluding to the fact that Garcia’s game seems like he could play a few different positions to fit on all teams.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Hyperbole

noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

Example:

Garcia could start on any team in the country.

[MU82]

I do occasionally use hyperbole intentionally. This was not one of those times.

What it was, was an opinion. I certainly could be wrong, and I obviously can’t prove it.

It would have been better had I  hedged a little, saying something along the lines of, “I think Garcia would start for most if not all programs. Such a tall, smart, highly skilled player is quite uncommon.”

[Lennys Tap]

I do occasionally use hyperbole intentionally. This was not one of those times.

What it was, was an opinion. I certainly could be wrong, and I obviously can’t prove it.

It would have been better had I  hedged a little, saying something along the lines of, “I think Garcia would start for most if not all programs. Such a tall, smart, highly skilled player is quite uncommon.”

I hope your opinion proves to be correct. If so, he’s definitely all Big East (POY?) this year and at worst probably a 2nd team All American. He’ll be a one and done lottery pick, but this year will be awesome.

My opinion is he looked really good last night against Arkansas Pine Bluff. I think he has a really bright future.

Some insist it takes 5 years (or more) to judge a coach. I disagree, but maybe we take at least 5 games to fully evaluate Garcia.

[dgies9156]

There are things you can say about last night and things you can't say.

Can Say:
1) The game reminded me of the old games we once played against Athletes in Action. It's an exhibition to try out offensive and defensive strategies. Nothing more.
2) This team looked more like some of the old Buzz teams. Passing, looking for each other and forgoing shorts in favor of finding the wide open teammate. In the past, unless the teammate was Katlin Reinhardt, Andrew Rowsey or Markus Howard, people never passed for the open guy.
3) How long this lasts is anyone's guess. Against a really good team, the game Marquette played last night was physically taxing. Will they continue when they face Villanova, or will they just pass around the perimeter. That remains to be seen.
4) That APB player who picked a fight with the Theonator was nuts. Had he pushed it, his life span would have been about six seconds.

Can't Say
5) We're any good. Like saying we were good because we beat Athletes in Action.
6) Dawson Garcia is all world. It's one game people. He showed a lot, but curb your enthusiasm for a week.
7) DJ Carton has problems. It's one game, people.

Let's see how this plays out in the next 10 days.

[Shooter McGavin]

I hope your opinion proves to be correct. If so, he’s definitely all Big East (POY?) this year and at worst probably a 2nd team All American. He’ll be a one and done lottery pick, but this year will be awesome.

My opinion is he looked really good last night against Arkansas Pine Bluff. I think he has a really bright future.

Some insist it takes 5 years (or more) to judge a coach. I disagree, but maybe we take at least 5 games to fully evaluate Garcia.

I’m with you Lenny.  Too early to tell anything.  Still excited though until tomorrow if we only win by 10.

[MU82]

I hope your opinion proves to be correct. If so, he’s definitely all Big East (POY?) this year and at worst probably a 2nd team All American. He’ll be a one and done lottery pick, but this year will be awesome.

There are a lot of players who could start for most college teams who aren't All-Americans. I mean, Henry wasn't an All-American; you don't think he would have started for most teams? Jimmy Butler was only honorable mention All-Big East as a senior, yet I think almost every coach in America would have valued him extremely highly and started him. Kentucky and Duke each has several starters every year who aren't All-Americans.

Unless you are being facetious and/or I'm simply misreading you, I don't get what you're saying.

So you don't think a highly recruited McDonald's All-American who is tall and skilled would start for most teams? That's all I said (I at first said "all," yes, but I later hedged). I never said anything about him being All-anything.

[brewcity77]

There are a lot of players who could start for most college teams who aren't All-Americans. I mean, Henry wasn't an All-American; you don't think he would have started for most teams?

It depends on your definition of "most teams" but strictly from a numerical standpoint, my guess is every scholarship player on our roster would start for 200+ college teams. Basically anyone outside the top 6-7 leagues would have room for just about any of our guys in the starting lineup. I would guess our best players would probably start for closer to 300+ teams, which would include Garcia. But most McDonald's All-Americans expect to start from day one, even at high-major programs.

[MU82]

But most McDonald's All-Americans expect to start from day one, even at high-major programs.

While I agree with your entire post,  this sentence is what I had in mind when I said what I did about Garcia.

[Badgerhater]

Hyperbole

noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

Example:

Garcia could start on any team in the country.

The hyperbole here is ridiculous sometimes and is why I build silly polls on who is going to transfer.   It is all absurd.

MU has some nice young players and it will be interesting watching how they develop.

[Lennys Tap]

There are a lot of players who could start for most college teams who aren't All-Americans. I mean, Henry wasn't an All-American; you don't think he would have started for most teams? Jimmy Butler was only honorable mention All-Big East as a senior, yet I think almost every coach in America would have valued him extremely highly and started him. Kentucky and Duke each has several starters every year who aren't All-Americans.

Unless you are being facetious and/or I'm simply misreading you, I don't get what you're saying.

So you don't think a highly recruited McDonald's All-American who is tall and skilled would start for most teams? That's all I said (I at first said "all," yes, but I later hedged). I never said anything about him being All-anything.

I don’t want to fight with you, Mike, but first you said ALL, then you said most, if not all and now you say most. Those are 3 very different designations. ALL (as a freshman) means superstar, All American, Zaire Williamson/Anthony Davis. The Bulls just took a big  and skilled guy with the #4 pick in the draft who not only wouldn’t have started with every college team as a freshman - he didn’t even start at his own school (Florida State).

Dawson Garcia was #36 in his class’s RSCI - in the same general area as Dominique James, JJJ and Vander Blue. Two of those three started as freshmen at MU and all three would have started at most (more than half) of D1 schools. None would have started at all of them. Not even close.

Now maybe Garcia will be our Zion or Anthony Davis. That would be awesome. But one game against Pine Bluff isn’t enough evidence for me.

[wadesworld]

I don’t want to fight with you, Mike, but first you said ALL, then you said most, if not all and now you say most. Those are 3 very different designations. ALL (as a freshman) means superstar, All American, Zaire Williamson/Anthony Davis. The Bulls just took a big  and skilled guy with the #4 pick in the draft who not only wouldn’t have started with every college team as a freshman - he didn’t even start at his own school (Florida State).

Dawson Garcia was #36 in his class’s RSCI - in the same general area as Dominique James, JJJ and Vander Blue. Two of those three started as freshmen at MU and all three would have started at most (more than half) of D1 schools. None would have started at all of them. Not even close.

Now maybe Garcia will be our Zion or Anthony Davis. That would be awesome. But one game against Pine Bluff isn’t enough evidence for me.

I don’t think Dawson would start for every program in the country. But:

1) Do you mean Zion Williamson? Or Ziaire Williams?
2) Why would you have to be a First Team All American and the top pick in the NBA Draft to be someone who would start on every team in America? Last I checked, there are no teams in college basketball that have the 5 best players in the country. That’s silly.

[PGsHeroes32]

I don’t think Dawson would start for every program in the country. But:

1) Do you mean Zion Williamson? Or Ziaire Williams?
2) Why would you have to be a First Team All American and the top pick in the NBA Draft to be someone who would start on every team in America? Last I checked, there are no teams in college basketball that have the 5 best players in the country. That’s silly.

Not to mention NBA drafts on things much different than scoring good PT in college.

Markus would have started on every single team last year whether it was at the 1 or the 2. He didnt even get drafted.

So I am not sure why that FSU guy going 4th was a reference point.

[BM1090]

Not to mention NBA drafts on things much different than scoring good PT in college.

Markus would have started on every single team last year whether it was at the 1 or the 2. He didnt even get drafted.

So I am not sure why that FSU guy going 4th was a reference point.

Carson Edwards two years ago is an example as well. He would have started on every single team but was drafted in the 2nd round.

[Shooter McGavin]

I don’t want to fight with you, Mike, but first you said ALL, then you said most, if not all and now you say most. Those are 3 very different designations. ALL (as a freshman) means superstar, All American, Zaire Williamson/Anthony Davis. The Bulls just took a big  and skilled guy with the #4 pick in the draft who not only wouldn’t have started with every college team as a freshman - he didn’t even start at his own school (Florida State).

Dawson Garcia was #36 in his class’s RSCI - in the same general area as Dominique James, JJJ and Vander Blue. Two of those three started as freshmen at MU and all three would have started at most (more than half) of D1 schools. None would have started at all of them. Not even close.

Now maybe Garcia will be our Zion or Anthony Davis. That would be awesome. But one game against Pine Bluff isn’t enough evidence for me.

You guys are really getting into the fine points of the argument and then looking at them under the microscope. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You guys are really getting into the fine points of the argument and then looking at them under the microscope.

[MU82]

I don’t want to fight with you, Mike, but first you said ALL, then you said most, if not all and now you say most. Those are 3 very different designations. ALL (as a freshman) means superstar, All American, Zaire Williamson/Anthony Davis. The Bulls just took a big  and skilled guy with the #4 pick in the draft who not only wouldn’t have started with every college team as a freshman - he didn’t even start at his own school (Florida State).

Dawson Garcia was #36 in his class’s RSCI - in the same general area as Dominique James, JJJ and Vander Blue. Two of those three started as freshmen at MU and all three would have started at most (more than half) of D1 schools. None would have started at all of them. Not even close.

Now maybe Garcia will be our Zion or Anthony Davis. That would be awesome. But one game against Pine Bluff isn’t enough evidence for me.

OK, Tony. Happy Day After Thanksgiving.

[The Big East]

We won by 42 against a weak team. That is what a talented MU team is supposed to do in games like this.  So performance met expectation.

My biggest takeaway is the kids seemed to enjoy moving the ball around, I think that collaboration is something the team can build off of. Everyone got minutes so that is also an asset to build from as well.

This years non conference is shorter, but we should have a good idea where the team is by the end of it.

[BM1090]

We won by 42 against a weak team. That is what a talented MU team is supposed to do in games like this.  So performance met expectation.

My biggest takeaway is the kids seemed to enjoy moving the ball around, I think that collaboration is something the team can build off of. Everyone got minutes so that is also an asset to build from as well.

This years non conference is shorter, but we should have a good idea where the team is by the end of it.

I agree with this analysis.

There was no adversity so we have to see if the unselfishness sticks when things get a little tougher. Might get a better idea tonight.

[StillAWarrior]

4) That APB player who picked a fight with the Theonator was nuts. Had he pushed it, his life span would have been about six seconds.

I have never seen a player throw a punch and then immediately demonstrate such profound regret. I think it was more the immediate realization that he was going to be ejected, but there had to have been a hint of, "thank goodness he decided not to retaliate and end my life." thrown in for good measure.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I have never seen a player throw a punch and then immediately demonstrate such profound regret. I think it was more the immediate realization that he was going to be ejected, but there had to have been a hint of, "thank goodness he decided not to retaliate and end my life." thrown in for good measure.

The kid is from Milwaukee and was amped up in his first college game, in the FF no less. He apologized to Theo on the way off the floor

[tower912]

It was a split second reaction.    The kid felt bad, they made peace, and it is over.    The officials still had to eject him.    Closed fist.

[Lennys Tap]

2) Why would you have to be a First Team All American and the top pick in the NBA Draft to be someone who would start on every team in America? Last I checked, there are no teams in college basketball that have the 5 best players in the country. That’s silly.

????

If you’re a PF, to start on EVERY team you would have to be better than EVERY PF. If you can play multiple positions (say PF and SF) you have to be better than the PF or the SF on EVERY team. The first example almost surely makes you a 1st team AA. The second example provides more wiggle room but still makes you elite. Whether (as a PF or a PF/SF) you’re a “better player” than the PG, 2G or C is beside the point.

[wadesworld]

????

If you’re a PF, to start on EVERY team you would have to be better than EVERY PF. If you can play multiple positions (say PF and SF) you have to be better than the PF or the SF on EVERY team. The first example almost surely makes you a 1st team AA. The second example provides more wiggle room but still makes you elite. Whether (as a PF or a PF/SF) you’re a “better player” than the PG, 2G or C is beside the point.

So now you don’t have to be Zaire Williamson (whoever that is) or AD to start for every team in the country? I agree, then.

Drew Timme was not named to the preseason First, Second, or Third All American Teams. He’s also not going to be the top pick in the 2021 NBA Draft, barring some unimaginable happenings. I’m pretty confident every coach in America would be thrilled to have him in their starting lineup.

[Lennys Tap]

So now you don’t have to be Zaire Williamson (whoever that is) or AD to start for every team in the country? I agree, then.

Drew Timme was not named to the preseason First, Second, or Third All American Teams. He’s also not going to be the top pick in the 2021 NBA Draft, barring some unimaginable happenings. I’m pretty confident every coach in America would be thrilled to have him in their starting lineup.

What does preseason All American teams have to do with anything? If Timme ends up being the best player at his position in the country I like his chances at being an AA at the end of the season. There’s a reason they play the games.

A few months back you actually wrote a thoughtful post. I complimented you on it. What happened to that guy?

[wadesworld]

What does preseason All American teams have to do with anything? If Timme ends up being the best player at his position in the country I like his chances at being an AA at the end of the season. There’s a reason they play the games.

A few months back you actually wrote a thoughtful post. I complimented you on it. What happened to that guy?

I don’t think 82 called Garcia the best player at his position in the country. But if you want to turn it into a different argument I guess you can do that.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I don’t think 82 called Garcia the best player at his position in the country. But if you want to turn it into a different argument I guess you can do that.

A very simple guide to Lennys' arguments:  if an argument in any way helps him minimize the accomplishment of a Wojo-era team, he will make said argument. 

[Uncle Rico]

A very simple guide to Lennys' arguments:  if an argument in any way helps him minimize the accomplishment of a Wojo-era team, he will make said argument.

Lenny may not be ProJo but he’s fair in his assessment of the team and players.  He gives credit where it’s due.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

nm

[Lennys Tap]

I don’t think 82 called Garcia the best player at his position in the country. But if you want to turn it into a different argument I guess you can do that.

Well, if he would start at his position on any team in the country isn’t that the same thing?

[wadesworld]

Well, if he would start at his position on any team in the country isn’t that the same thing?

It’s not 1955. Basketball is no longer played with a single point guard, a single shooting guard, a single small forward, a single power forward, and a single center on the court at all times.

[Lennys Tap]

It’s not 1955. Basketball is no longer played with a single point guard, a single shooting guard, a single small forward, a single power forward, and a single center on the court at all times.

You’re right. Tonight Symir started at center, Cain at the 2, Garcia at PG, Koby at PF and Theo at SF because, we’ll, it’s not 1955. LOL

[wadesworld]

You’re right. Tonight Symir started at center, Cain at the 2, Garcia at PG, Koby at PF and Theo at SF because, we’ll, it’s not 1955. LOL

This is one of your dumber takes. But okay. I guess Iggy is a center now because, well, you must have a center on the court at all times and the Warriors were closing out titles with him playing their big.

As always, thanks for the laughs.

[PGsHeroes32]

You’re right. Tonight Symir started at center, Cain at the 2, Garcia at PG, Koby at PF and Theo at SF because, we’ll, it’s not 1955. LOL

I think its about time you tap out