Marquette Faces Pushback on Faculty Cuts

[brewcity77]

Respectfully disagree.  As a non-Catholic, I never felt that Marquette was overtly Catholic during my attendance.  My room mate went to church on Sundays (or at night sometimes), but I never stepped foot in Gesu until two years ago.  I never felt like religion was pushed on me outside of being required to take my two Theology classes.  I think the Catholic angle works more on the older generations than it does the current generations.  I never understand it when people say that they have, "strong Catholic ideals" because I didn't grow up with those ideals... but at the same time, those ideals are part of my personal ideology.  I didn't need religion to learn to be a good person.

I had RC, Jewish, and Muslim classmates while at Marquette, as well as people like myself who don't agree with organized religion.  I am grateful that Marquette never attempted to alienate people from other faiths, nor was there a strong attempt to proselytize the 'others' towards RC.  I'm not suggesting that Marquette become secular, but I think the RC angle is a selling point to wealthy parents who write checks.  I certainly didn't attend MU for religious reasons.  I attended because it is a respected school that produces strong alumni and offers high rates of job placements.

Agreed completely with this. It just reinforces our discussion that we were at Marquette at the same time. My ideals didn't come from religion, but I largely agree with the ideals and morals of Marquette. And my classmates were notably diverse from a religious perspective, which only made the religion courses I was required to take more interesting.

[Billy Hoyle]

Pilarz was no fool.  He knew he could attract students from his former area to come to MU if the board let him, and had he been given the chance I think he would have made inroads on that but instead the board ran him out of town which is a shame.

Pilarz ran himself out of town

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Both Valid Points.  Wasn't referring to East Coast specifically, although it's still, and will remain for some time, the most densely populated part of the country.   There's also a lot of wealth concentration there and the Big 10 are extremely popular with students there, whose families gladly pay out of state tuition without batting an eye.  At the local Jesuit High School near where I live (Fairfield Prep), UW Madison is far more popular a destination than MU.  I believe 4 of their students matriculated there in the last class, and they haven't had 4 students matriculate to MU from there in the last 10 years.   Everyone in the MU community out there thinks there are so many great schools on the east coast how can MU compete?  What they don't realize, because they're not here, is how many students from the Northeast attend colleges in the Midwest. 

That said, I agree the West and perhaps South are where there's more opportunity and that's great too!   My broader point is, MU has the brand strength to compete for these students, they just don't think they do and that's what's so frustrating.   Pilarz was no fool.  He knew he could attract students from his former area to come to MU if the board let him, and had he been given the chance I think he would have made inroads on that but instead the board ran him out of town which is a shame.

Pilarz was terrible.

[dgies9156]

That said, I agree the West and perhaps South are where there's more opportunity and that's great too!   My broader point is, MU has the brand strength to compete for these students, they just don't think they do and that's what's so frustrating.   Pilarz was no fool.  He knew he could attract students from his former area to come to MU if the board let him, and had he been given the chance I think he would have made inroads on that but instead the board ran him out of town which is a shame.

Brother Disco:

Of course, that's where Marquette needs to go. That's where the population growth is occurring.

One need look no further than Nashville. The city grew from about 250,000 in 1950, very few of which were Roman Catholic, to about 2.1 million in the CSA now. Williamson County grew from an outpost town (Franklin) that had a quaint colonial charm to it, to a full-blown mid-south version of Orange County, CA. In the past 25 years, the Catholic community in Middle Tennessee undoubtedly has tripled. The community has gone from one co-ed Roman Catholic high school to two.

Massive population growth also has come to Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham and Orlando (now 2.5 million, thank you very much Disney).

The challenge that Marquette will have in these areas is the same it has in the Midwest. State supported schools are gradually improving and working toward attaining the same academic status as the better Big 10 schools. The University of Tennessee, long ago, took anyone with a pulse and a Tennessee high school degree. Nowadays, one needs a strong GPA and a 27 ACT to be admitted there -- unless, of course, you can play football. Same for Alabama, Florida, Georgia etc.

Plus, you have the problem of dynamiting sun belt students out of mild weather and selling Milwaukee winters! Not as easy as it sounds!

[Disco Hippie]

Pilarz was terrible.

How so?  I don't have any insight.    All I heard was that he wasn't well liked by many board members because they thought he was elitist and they didn't care for his Northeastern POV.   Not sure if that's true....I didn't know the guy but that's what I heard.   The faculty apparently liked him more than other administrators.

[Billy Hoyle]

How so?  I don't have any insight.    All I heard was that he wasn't well liked by many board members because they thought he was elitist and they didn't care for his Northeastern POV.   Not sure if that's true....I didn't know the guy but that's what I heard.   The faculty apparently liked him more than other administrators.

I can’t speak for his running of the university but I do know he would blow off donors and there were financial malfeasance issues involving family members and university funds. That’s a deal breaker for any leader.

[GooooMarquette]

Respectfully disagree.  As a non-Catholic, I never felt that Marquette was overtly Catholic during my attendance.  My room mate went to church on Sundays (or at night sometimes), but I never stepped foot in Gesu until two years ago.  I never felt like religion was pushed on me outside of being required to take my two Theology classes.  I think the Catholic angle works more on the older generations than it does the current generations.  I never understand it when people say that they have, "strong Catholic ideals" because I didn't grow up with those ideals... but at the same time, those ideals are part of my personal ideology.  I didn't need religion to learn to be a good person.

I had RC, Jewish, and Muslim classmates while at Marquette, as well as people like myself who don't agree with organized religion.  I am grateful that Marquette never attempted to alienate people from other faiths, nor was there a strong attempt to proselytize the 'others' towards RC.  I'm not suggesting that Marquette become secular, but I think the RC angle is a selling point to wealthy parents who write checks.  I certainly didn't attend MU for religious reasons.  I attended because it is a respected school that produces strong alumni and offers high rates of job placements.

Same here. To me, the fact that MU was a Catholic institution was completely irrelevant to my decision to attend and my daily experience.

I have only been in Gesu once...when I wandered in as a student to check out the architecture.

[Eldon]

Back in the news. Faculty write open letter denouncing the potential cuts.

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2020/12/04/open-letters-take-aim-marquette-budget-cuts

[mu_hilltopper]

Pretty long article about lots of issues:

https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2020/12/09/troubles-at-marquette-university/

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I think they are being a little hyperbolic on some things in that article. 

But some of those financial mis-steps under the "Building for the Future?" heading are...something.

[Disco Hippie]

Pretty long article about lots of issues:

https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2020/12/09/troubles-at-marquette-university/

Great article thanks for Posting.   

Although I completely disagree with the majority of this group's agenda, they're absolutely right about this:

MYTH 2: The COVID-19 crisis has accelerated the budget timeline of the "demographic cliff."

FACT: MU's recruitment (a 10-20% loss) this fall 2020 underperformed a national decline of 2.5%. This is not because of our Midwest location or COVID-19. It stands in stark contrast to banner enrollment years at Madison, Xavier University, Stevens Point, and Wisconsin Lutheran. Why is that? What can the administration do to change, to serve, and to recruit our students rather than displacing blame onto years-off controversial projections?

MU's recruiting on a national basis is downright awful.  This group seems to think the growth can occur almost exclusively within diverse and non-traditional college bound populations.  That's all well and good but I'm not convinced there are enough of those folks to make up the difference, so it seems to this alum that MU needs to not only hone in on non the non traditional but hone in even more on the traditional from far reaching places where MU hasn't historically been very popular.  All it takes is for one student to matriculate, have a positive experience and then word of mouth takes over.  In my area (suburban NYC) Elon and Miami of Ohio are among the most popular places for students to attend.  That wasn't the case 10-15 years ago.  Who'd have thunk?  MU has made zero effort to cultivate a brand for itself outside of the midwest except among Catholic high schools, and even there it's failing.  UW Madison is 100x more popular at our local Jesuit high school than MU, and so is Miami of Ohio, both of which are in the midwest, not the northeast, yet the families of these students gladly pay out of state tuition comparable to MU's for an educational experience that's arguably inferior when large class sizes are taken into account.

As Trump Loves the Big East said earlier, Marquette was going on a very good path until Lovell came along. The school had a strategic plan to move MU higher in academic ranking. Lovell came along and they dropped that previous laudable goal. I think the stronger the school is academically the easier it will become to attract the broader base of students they are seeking. Everyone wants to be associated with a winner.  Keep the admissions standards up and the yield of admitted students will rise.   

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Disco, you are spot on about the myth pointed out in the article.  The demographic cliff hasn't hit yet.  Other schools, such as the ones mentioned and others, haven't seen these enrollment drop offs. 

But again, I don't think you have it right as to the reason for chasing the national rankings.  That strategy wasn't really working.  In fact, in Lovell's first five years, enrollment actually GREW during his tenure.  The Fall 2018 class was 2,162 - the largest class in years.  This is long after Marquette abandoned the national ranking strategy.  And that's smart.  Why?  Students and parents don't follow the rankings like they used to.  There's too many of them that say different things.  Sure they will MARKET to rankings when it suits their purpose.  They just don't build strategy around growing in rankings.

Furthermore, when you look at their freshmen data over the last 15 years, the percentage of freshmen from WI and IL is largely unchanged.  It has represented somewhere between 70% and 75% each of those years - with no discernable trend in any direction.  So the idea that they don'r recruit well nationally compared to how they used to, is false.  It's really no different.

The thing that I want to know is, what changed between 2018 and 2020?  The strategy of getting more diverse hasn't really changed - they've been at about the same level (upper 20%) since 2015. 

I wonder if the financial issues cited in the article means they have had to cut institutional aid, making them less competitive price wise in the marketplace, and THAT'S what's driving enrollment down.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

The thing that I want to know is, what changed between 2018 and 2020?  The strategy of getting more diverse hasn't really changed - they've been at about the same level (upper 20%) since 2015. 

I wonder if the financial issues cited in the article means they have had to cut institutional aid, making them less competitive price wise in the marketplace, and THAT'S what's driving enrollment down.

I appreciate the article and the responses here.

The article seemed to touch on exactly what I witnessed. 

Marquette administration argues that they don’t want to fill up empty seats with lower paying students if there are still some higher paying students out there. The problem, say faculty, is there aren’t many higher paying students to get.

A letter sent to the administration and board by the Marquette Faculty Council on Dec. 3 expresses concerns about “the impact of decision-making that does not appear to be driven by careful analysis.” Among the concerns the faculty express is the move to reduce significantly discounted tuition so more students are paying full tuition.

“Marquette should consider that even a student paying discounted tuition is bringing revenues into the institution,” the faculty group wrote. “Giving the admissions department a larger financial aid pool and greater latitude with the tuition discount rate will also impact student debt ratio,” the faculty add, which, they point out, is a factor in US News and World Report rankings for universities and colleges.

In his most recent interview, Nathan Grawe said he could not specifically speak on Marquette’s situation; however, he did say, “It might be much better off financially to reach into the [financially poorer]student population if the alternative is to simply let the seats go empty.”

I know I have mentioned before as my daughter desperately wanted to go to MU, but not at the price they were offering.  She's a sophomore now at XU and very happy, so it worked out.  If they increased the offer somewhat she would have been at MU.  It was not a large increase request either, but the Dean said he was capped at what they could offer.  We still would have been paying much more than the offer, so I was surprised they wouldn't match since as mentioned in this article.
 “Marquette should consider that even a student paying discounted tuition is bringing revenues into the institution,”

I can see coming off a large class the year before they probably felt confident they were going to make enrollment projections again instead of seeing the first of several years of enrollment drop.  Fluff's possible reason for the decrease does seem very reasonable.
The recent campus projects list sounds like viable ideas, but extremely very bad luck at the timing on a few of them that's an albatross at the end of 2020.  Maybe too many to implement, too fast?

 

[Hards Alumni]

What about the national narrative that is catching that college is too expensive and isn't guaranteeing jobs the way it was?  Couple that with Covid.

Are more kids entering trade school, or have schools asked students if they're taking an 'off year' before entering school next year with no Covid measures?

Personally, I think Marquette has overspent on bricks the last two decades.  Of course, some of that construction was required... but since I started school (2000) here are the new buildings on campus (I'm probably forgetting some as well).

1.  Al McGuire Center
2. Raynor Library
3. Eckstein hall
4. Engineering hall
5. Dentistry building
6. The Commons
7. PA studies building
8. Zilber Hall
9. Athletic and Human Performance Research Center
10. Jes Res
11. Campus Town East
12. Wells Parking Structure
13. Purchased The Marq
14. Straz tower (East Hall) first year was 2000, I believe.
15. Krueger Child Care Center

And special mention goes to the Campus Beautification project started in 2000-2001.

I probably forgot some as well... seems like a lot.

Yes, I realize this was a 20 year time period, so no need to point that out.

[mu_hilltopper]

UW Madison is 100x more popular at our local Jesuit high school than MU, and so is Miami of Ohio, both of which are in the midwest, not the northeast, yet the families of these students gladly pay out of state tuition comparable to MU's for an educational experience that's arguably inferior when large class sizes are taken into account.

UW has a gigantic advantage over MU, nationally.   UW has gone to 10 serious bowl games in 10 years, 4 of them Rose.   They are a Top ~10 team every year.  5 of the past 10 years, they've gotten to the S16 or F4 in basketball.

Sports success .. does wonders for national recognition. 

Serious question:  If MU had hit the NCAAs ~every year this decade, getting to the ~2nd weekend every other year .. how much better would their economic position be?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

UW has a gigantic advantage over MU, nationally.   UW has gone to 10 serious bowl games in 10 years, 4 of them Rose.   They are a Top ~10 team every year.  5 of the past 10 years, they've gotten to the S16 or F4 in basketball.

Sports success .. does wonders for national recognition. 

Serious question:  If MU had hit the NCAAs ~every year this decade, getting to the ~2nd weekend every other year .. how much better would their economic position be?

They might have made enrollment targets.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I appreciate the article and the responses here.

The article seemed to touch on exactly what I witnessed. 

Marquette administration argues that they don’t want to fill up empty seats with lower paying students if there are still some higher paying students out there. The problem, say faculty, is there aren’t many higher paying students to get.

A letter sent to the administration and board by the Marquette Faculty Council on Dec. 3 expresses concerns about “the impact of decision-making that does not appear to be driven by careful analysis.” Among the concerns the faculty express is the move to reduce significantly discounted tuition so more students are paying full tuition.

“Marquette should consider that even a student paying discounted tuition is bringing revenues into the institution,” the faculty group wrote. “Giving the admissions department a larger financial aid pool and greater latitude with the tuition discount rate will also impact student debt ratio,” the faculty add, which, they point out, is a factor in US News and World Report rankings for universities and colleges.

In his most recent interview, Nathan Grawe said he could not specifically speak on Marquette’s situation; however, he did say, “It might be much better off financially to reach into the [financially poorer]student population if the alternative is to simply let the seats go empty.”

I know I have mentioned before as my daughter desperately wanted to go to MU, but not at the price they were offering.  She's a sophomore now at XU and very happy, so it worked out.  If they increased the offer somewhat she would have been at MU.  It was not a large increase request either, but the Dean said he was capped at what they could offer.  We still would have been paying much more than the offer, so I was surprised they wouldn't match since as mentioned in this article.
 “Marquette should consider that even a student paying discounted tuition is bringing revenues into the institution,”

I can see coming off a large class the year before they probably felt confident they were going to make enrollment projections again instead of seeing the first of several years of enrollment drop.  Fluff's possible reason for the decrease does seem very reasonable.
The recent campus projects list sounds like viable ideas, but extremely very bad luck at the timing on a few of them that's an albatross at the end of 2020.  Maybe too many to implement, too fast?

 

I actually thought of your story when typing that paragraph.  The problem wasn't necessary the refusal to match - a lot of schools have that policy.  The problem may have been the initial offer just wasn't competitive.

[MUfan12]

What about the national narrative that is catching that college is too expensive and isn't guaranteeing jobs the way it was?  Couple that with Covid.

Are more kids entering trade school, or have schools asked students if they're taking an 'off year' before entering school next year with no Covid measures?

Personally, I think Marquette has overspent on bricks the last two decades.  Of course, some of that construction was required... but since I started school (2000) here are the new buildings on campus (I'm probably forgetting some as well).

1.  Al McGuire Center
2. Raynor Library
3. Eckstein hall
4. Engineering hall
5. Dentistry building
6. The Commons
7. PA studies building
8. Zilber Hall
9. Athletic and Human Performance Research Center
10. Jes Res
11. Campus Town East
12. Wells Parking Structure
13. Purchased The Marq
14. Straz tower (East Hall) first year was 2000, I believe.
15. Krueger Child Care Center

And special mention goes to the Campus Beautification project started in 2000-2001.

I probably forgot some as well... seems like a lot.

Yes, I realize this was a 20 year time period, so no need to point that out.

Looking at the buildings that those projects replaced, I think the vast majority were sensible. Buying The Marq was a bad move, IMO. And I'm curious why the Commons came in so over budget.

I think MU has been fine with building, but have made some awful bets on acquiring land/buildings. The APRC/on-campus arena debacle being at the top of the list.

[Hards Alumni]

Looking at the buildings that those projects replaced, I think the vast majority were sensible. Buying The Marq was a bad move, IMO. And I'm curious why the Commons came in so over budget.

I think MU has been fine with building, but have made some awful bets on acquiring land/buildings. The APRC/on-campus arena debacle being at the top of the list.

What is rather surprising to me is that the buildings for sciences felt extremely dated when I was in school... and they're still there and being used.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

They are really expensive to replace.  I think they are planning to replace Todd Wehr and Wehr Life Sciences as part of the Master Plan, but who knows when that will be.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

They are really expensive to replace.  I think they are planning to replace Todd Wehr and Wehr Life Sciences as part of the Master Plan, but who knows when that will be.

When my younger daughter toured MU way back in February of this year I recall this being mentioned on the tour. 
Along the lines of "they are next in line for building upgrades after the Business school is done."

[4everwarriors]

See should change hour nickname ta Falcons and murge wit Concordia, aina?

[Hards Alumni]

They are really expensive to replace.  I think they are planning to replace Todd Wehr and Wehr Life Sciences as part of the Master Plan, but who knows when that will be.

Chemistry building opened in 1966
Physics opened 1973
Life Sciences 1962
Schroeder complex will be 100 years old in 2 years.  Yikes!

Straz hall built in 1951 and refurbished in 1984.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I actually thought of your story when typing that paragraph.  The problem wasn't necessary the refusal to match - a lot of schools have that policy.  The problem may have been the initial offer just wasn't competitive.

Fluff,
I'm curious what kind of offer my younger daughter will receive.  If it reflects a shift in strategy/thought from MU.  She should hear something from MU this month.  She applied to Nursing, so I don't know if that fits the equation differently?  My older daughter was a very good student and my younger daughter is even better.  She already got accepted from XU with a bigger offer than my older daughter.  She's still waiting on her other six schools too.

[Billy Hoyle]

What about the national narrative that is catching that college is too expensive and isn't guaranteeing jobs the way it was?  Couple that with Covid.

Are more kids entering trade school, or have schools asked students if they're taking an 'off year' before entering school next year with no Covid measures?

Personally, I think Marquette has overspent on bricks the last two decades.  Of course, some of that construction was required... but since I started school (2000) here are the new buildings on campus (I'm probably forgetting some as well).

1.  Al McGuire Center
2. Raynor Library
3. Eckstein hall
4. Engineering hall
5. Dentistry building
6. The Commons
7. PA studies building
8. Zilber Hall
9. Athletic and Human Performance Research Center
10. Jes Res
11. Campus Town East
12. Wells Parking Structure
13. Purchased The Marq
14. Straz tower (East Hall) first year was 2000, I believe.
15. Krueger Child Care Center

And special mention goes to the Campus Beautification project started in 2000-2001.

I probably forgot some as well... seems like a lot.

Yes, I realize this was a 20 year time period, so no need to point that out.

some of those were much needed and strategic for recruitment and enrollment:

1.  Al McGuire Center - privately funded, badly needed for the basketball program
2. Raynor Library - MU actually cut back on this not making it an actual library and keeping Memorial around.
5. Dentistry building - got a lot of state funding for this. Was very much needed
6. The Commons - badly needed, though I understanding came in over budget. Residence halls are a major recruitment tool and ours are way behind others.
7. PA studies building - PA is becoming an attractive career path and with our lack of a medical school, it made sense to launch the program.
11. Campus Town East - badly needed as well, though they should have found a way to incorporate the 'Lanche.  When I was  looking at schools and toured MU the original Campus Town was being built and was a draw for my family and me knowing there was going to be great off-campus" housing available so close to campus in a safe area (coming from a small town my mom was concerned about the neighborhood around MU.
14. Straz tower (East Hall) first year was 2000, I believe. - This was a renovation, not a newly constructed building.  East actually closed in 1996 due to declining enrollment. With increased enrollment, it was needed and became the "cool" dorm on campus.