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* Next up: A long offseason

Marquette
Marquette

Madness

Date/Time: Oct 16, 2020?
TV: NA
Schedule for 2019-20
18-12

Author Topic: College Sports Madness 144 Preview  (Read 2575 times)

TAMU Eagle

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2020, 09:06:58 AM »
For what it’s worth, I am a projo.  I’ve met him a couple times and like him.  I want him to succeed as much as anyone but it’s time to exceed expectations.  I will be counting the days until he is fired if we do not have a good year.  I have a feeling there will be plenty of people with me.  There are too many positives for this program to sink into the abyss. Literally any qualified coach could have this team losing first round NCAA games  3 out of six years. Time to raise the bar.  I really believe Wojo feels the same way.

I don't think we're that far apart, I wasn't saying that NIT shouldn't get him fired, just that I don't think it will. The recipe for long term success for a college basketball program is coach longevity. My guess is that the admin will want a definitive sign that Wojo won't improve and I'm not sure an NIT in a down year would convince them of that.

I also would say that I'm not sure "any qualified coach" could turn in the same performance as Wojo. I see a lot of once proud programs doing a lost worse than Marquette is....including some with coaches that have received the meat eater's endorsement. I think it's harder to build college basketball programs than most fans think.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

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TAMU Eagle

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2020, 09:19:49 AM »
C'mon, Garcia and Carton were ranked talent. Oso was well regarded. Akanno is showing real potential. It's time!!!!!

Brother Dgies. Carton is an NBA level talent, he will do great things for us. Garcia is a freshman ranked barely inside the top 40. He could be the real deal or he could need some time to grow. Jajuan Johnson was ranked higher than he was and as a FR he was a back of the rotation player for Buzz' worst team. Oso is currently ranked #125 by the 247composite. Some players in that range end up as impact FR but most need a few years of seasoning. Dexter is a former top 400 recruit with some fancy highlight videos. I hope those videos end up being the real deal but until he shows it on the court, I'm not expecting any more than spot minutes for him.

The reality is, the roster that Wojo has put together for this season is an NIT level roster on paper. To be clear, he's the GM so that's on him. If we make the NCAAs this season, its because either Wojo coaches/develops them to be more than what they are on paper or because his newbies are better than their rankings would suggest which is a credit to his scouting ability.

I'm excited for the season because basketball isn't played on paper and I think there are a lot players who will have the opportunity to outperform expectations. If we make the NCAAs this season, my currently pessimistic view of Wojo's tenure will quickly turn optimistic.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Galway Eagle

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2020, 09:22:03 AM »
Brother Dgies. Carton is an NBA level talent, he will do great things for us. Garcia is a freshman ranked barely inside the top 40. He could be the real deal or he could need some time to grow. Jajuan Johnson was ranked higher than he was and as a FR he was a back of the rotation player for Buzz' worst team. Oso is currently ranked #125 by the 247composite. Some players in that range end up as impact FR but most need a few years of seasoning. Dexter is a former top 400 recruit with some fancy highlight videos. I hope those videos end up being the real deal but until he shows it on the court, I'm not expecting any more than spot minutes for him.

The reality is, the roster that Wojo has put together for this season is an NIT level roster on paper. To be clear, he's the GM so that's on him. If we make the NCAAs this season, its because either Wojo coaches/develops them to be more than what they are on paper or because his newbies are better than their rankings would suggest which is a credit to his scouting ability.

I'm excited for the season because basketball isn't played on paper and I think there are a lot players who will have the opportunity to outperform expectations. If we make the NCAAs this season, my currently pessimistic view of Wojo's tenure will quickly turn optimistic.

Counter point re Dawson, he's a 6-11 McD All American that has ball handling skills and a outside shot. Not saying I expect Henry 2.0 but if he's a step above Joey and a step below Henry that's legit.

dgies9156

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2020, 11:11:15 AM »
For what it’s worth, I am a projo.  I’ve met him a couple times and like him.  I want him to succeed as much as anyone but it’s time to exceed expectations.  I will be counting the days until he is fired if we do not have a good year.  I have a feeling there will be plenty of people with me.  There are too many positives for this program to sink into the abyss. Literally any qualified coach could have this team losing first round NCAA games  3 out of six years. Time to raise the bar.  I really believe Wojo feels the same way.

Brother Shooter:

I could not have said it any better. I think Coach Wojo represents a lot of what MU is about and I really want him to succeed. Really, I do. He cares about people, recruits good men and they represent MU well.

But, we have a great heritage and a desire to be great again. I hope he's the guy, but if this year isn't it, then, I hope we're looking at what's important and our priorities are right.

 

brewcity77

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2020, 06:21:54 PM »
Like everyone here, I want Wojo to succeed. I think he's a great representative of Marquette and am very pleased with his off-the-court actions.

I have lost faith in his ability to win at the highest level. I don't think he has the type of next level understanding that is required to build a high-level program in the modern game. I feel that he is, similar to his mentor Coach K, stuck in a past version of the game and struggling to adapt. The difference being that K has what most programs would term generational talents on a yearly basis, which papers over the deficiencies.

I agree that not anyone would necessarily outdo what Wojo has done. I just don't believe his system is proving to work. I think the poor defense is systemic and he does a poor job with minute allocations and player utilizations. I will give him credit that he does a great job offensively, and feel it is more than just having Markus for the last 4 years, but to date those prolific offenses haven't overcome the defensive woes, the inability to close seasons is disturbing, and seemingly having chemistry issues (not just the Hausers, also Koby's comments regarding playing with Markus, Ed leaving the team mid-year, Haani & Traci leaving when they in starting roles, Froling's post-departure comments, etc) is a lot to overcome.

Maybe this will be the class, maybe Carton will be the steadying force, but the old "wait until next year" mantra is getting old, especially as we're back to the point where we're less experienced than we've been in years.
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Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2020, 06:25:18 PM »
Waiting for Godot. 

bilsu

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2020, 07:22:27 PM »
I do not know how you can make a decision based on this year. The season with Covid is going to a total crapshoot. The NCAA tournament might end up being only 32 teams. In that case there might not even be an NIT field.

Hards_Alumni

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2020, 07:58:53 PM »
Like everyone here, I want Wojo to succeed. I think he's a great representative of Marquette and am very pleased with his off-the-court actions.

I have lost faith in his ability to win at the highest level. I don't think he has the type of next level understanding that is required to build a high-level program in the modern game. I feel that he is, similar to his mentor Coach K, stuck in a past version of the game and struggling to adapt. The difference being that K has what most programs would term generational talents on a yearly basis, which papers over the deficiencies.

I agree that not anyone would necessarily outdo what Wojo has done. I just don't believe his system is proving to work. I think the poor defense is systemic and he does a poor job with minute allocations and player utilizations. I will give him credit that he does a great job offensively, and feel it is more than just having Markus for the last 4 years, but to date those prolific offenses haven't overcome the defensive woes, the inability to close seasons is disturbing, and seemingly having chemistry issues (not just the Hausers, also Koby's comments regarding playing with Markus, Ed leaving the team mid-year, Haani & Traci leaving when they in starting roles, Froling's post-departure comments, etc) is a lot to overcome.

Maybe this will be the class, maybe Carton will be the steadying force, but the old "wait until next year" mantra is getting old, especially as we're back to the point where we're less experienced than we've been in years.

*chortles*

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2020, 08:40:43 PM »
Like everyone here, I want Wojo to succeed. I think he's a great representative of Marquette and am very pleased with his off-the-court actions.

I have lost faith in his ability to win at the highest level. I don't think he has the type of next level understanding that is required to build a high-level program in the modern game. I feel that he is, similar to his mentor Coach K, stuck in a past version of the game and struggling to adapt. The difference being that K has what most programs would term generational talents on a yearly basis, which papers over the deficiencies.

I agree that not anyone would necessarily outdo what Wojo has done. I just don't believe his system is proving to work. I think the poor defense is systemic and he does a poor job with minute allocations and player utilizations. I will give him credit that he does a great job offensively, and feel it is more than just having Markus for the last 4 years, but to date those prolific offenses haven't overcome the defensive woes, the inability to close seasons is disturbing, and seemingly having chemistry issues (not just the Hausers, also Koby's comments regarding playing with Markus, Ed leaving the team mid-year, Haani & Traci leaving when they in starting roles, Froling's post-departure comments, etc) is a lot to overcome.

Maybe this will be the class, maybe Carton will be the steadying force, but the old "wait until next year" mantra is getting old, especially as we're back to the point where we're less experienced than we've been in years.


I agree with this except I think he has a good understanding of modern college basketball. I just don’t think he’s great at adjustments. Either in game or throughout a season. He doesn’t have a change up.
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Lennys Tap

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2020, 10:24:35 PM »

I agree with this except I think he has a good understanding of modern college basketball. I just don’t think he’s great at adjustments. Either in game or throughout a season. He doesn’t have a change up.

Continuing the baseball/starting pitcher metaphor, his “stuff” isn’t good enough to go deep into games/seasons.
The third time through the lineup he gets lit up.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 10:26:22 PM by Lennys Tap »

MUDPT

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2020, 11:13:07 PM »
The ignoring of advanced stats is pretty galling too, in my opinion.

HutchwasClutch

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2020, 07:55:54 AM »
Continuing the baseball/starting pitcher metaphor, his “stuff” isn’t good enough to go deep into games/seasons.
The third time through the lineup he gets lit up.

That’s still more credit than Wojo deserves.

We R Final Four

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2020, 08:04:28 AM »
The ignoring of advanced stats is pretty galling too, in my opinion.
This is the part that I don’t understand.
When you either don’t understand them, or think that you know your team better than metrics in this day and age is surprising to say the least.

Uncle Rico

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2020, 09:31:42 AM »
I do not know how you can make a decision based on this year. The season with Covid is going to a total crapshoot. The NCAA tournament might end up being only 32 teams. In that case there might not even be an NIT field.

You can’t.  I’m probably more projo than nojo but if they fired him today and started over, I’d shrug my shoulders and support the next guy.  Brewcity77 lays it out pretty well overall. 

Roster volatility in today’s game is to be expected but you have to start retaining your better recruits or you better be sure you can.  Too many questions heading into every season it feels like in the Wojo era. 
Fire Somebody

Galway Eagle

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2020, 09:43:11 AM »
You can’t.  I’m probably more projo than nojo but if they fired him today and started over, I’d shrug my shoulders and support the next guy.  Brewcity77 lays it out pretty well overall. 

Roster volatility in today’s game is to be expected but you have to start retaining your better recruits or you better be sure you can.  Too many questions heading into every season it feels like in the Wojo era.

This is key. Buzz had about as much roster volatility but he never really lost guys getting a ton of minutes and possessions. So there's a difference between losing guys like Haani, Joey, Sam or Bailey and losing Erik Williams, Jerome Maymonn, Jamail Jones and Reggie Smith

Nukem2

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2020, 09:58:58 AM »
This is key. Buzz had about as much roster volatility but he never really lost guys getting a ton of minutes and possessions. So there's a difference between losing guys like Haani, Joey, Sam or Bailey and losing Erik Williams, Jerome Maymonn, Jamail Jones and Reggie Smith
I would not put Jeronne Maymon with that latter group.

Galway Eagle

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2020, 10:03:35 AM »
I would not put Jeronne Maymon with that latter group.

Ok someone else but example aside the point remains
« Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 01:18:07 PM by Galway Eagle »

tower912

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Re: College Sports Madness 144 Preview
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2020, 10:40:17 AM »
Or Jameel
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

 

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