Black students reach agreement w/Marquette University

[MU82]

A lot of the posts below just demonstrate how much MU has lost its Catholic identity. All my professors (i.e. 1960s) in theology and philosophy except for two were Jusuits or Franciscan. Looks like the theology department has abandoned Catholic theology for the most part if not all together. I was required to take 6 theology and 4 philosophy courses for graduation.

As other posters said, one can immerse oneself in Marquette's Catholic identity if one wants to, but IMHO it's great that one does not have to be Catholic -- or even religious -- to get a rich experience at Marquette.

It's smart business, too. If Marquette limited itself to Catholic students, or aimed for something like 80-90%, it would die a slow death.

Marquette's identity is plenty Catholic. As is the case with most things, "the good old days" weren't all that good for vast swaths of American society. Look forward, not back.

[Pakuni]

A lot of the posts below just demonstrate how much MU has lost its Catholic identity. All my professors (i.e. 1960s) in theology and philosophy except for two were Jusuits or Franciscan. Looks like the theology department has abandoned Catholic theology for the most part if not all together. I was required to take 6 theology and 4 philosophy courses for graduation.

You see posts about social justice and ecumenism as evidence Marquette has somehow abandoned its identity, but aren't social justice and ecumenism ingrained parts of the Jesuit mission?

[muwarrior69]

As other posters said, one can immerse oneself in Marquette's Catholic identity if one wants to, but IMHO it's great that one does not have to be Catholic -- or even religious -- to get a rich experience at Marquette.

It's smart business, too. If Marquette limited itself to Catholic students, or aimed for something like 80-90%, it would die a slow death.

Marquette's identity is plenty Catholic. As is the case with most things, "the good old days" weren't all that good for vast swaths of American society. Look forward, not back.

All I am saying is that if you want your child to get a Catholic education, Marquette is no longer that place. Where does a Catholic student go to learn Catholic theology taught by Catholic cleric theologians at Marquette, not just immerse themselves in "Catholic" identity taught by non-Catholics? Who are the Jesuits in the Theology or Sociology department at Marquette that teach social justice and ecumenism? There are Catholic Universities and colleges that still do that. I am not sure how getting a Catholic education is looking back and not forward.

[MU82]

All I am saying is that if you want your child to get a Catholic education, Marquette is no longer that place. Where does a Catholic student go to learn Catholic theology taught by Catholic cleric theologians at Marquette, not just immerse themselves in "Catholic" identity taught by non-Catholics? Who are the Jesuits in the Theology or Sociology department at Marquette that teach social justice and ecumenism? There are Catholic Universities and colleges that still do that. I am not sure how getting a Catholic education is looking back and not forward.

Thanks for the response. Rather than comment further, I will defer to Scoopers who know more about Catholicism, and who also know more about Marquette's current Jesuit identity and commitment.

[shoothoops]

Are there that many black Catholics in the US? As a Catholic why would I want to attend Liberty Baptist or SMU, when I could go to Georgetown, Notre Dame or Marquette? Could it be that blacks just don't apply because they are not Catholic?

You are aware that Georgetown University was down to 40% Catholic student body more than a decade ago, yes?

You are also aware that for many, Church Doctrine is a living breathing document, the same as the Constitution, and can be amended over time?

As for this thread, hopefully Marquette continues to prioritize, and step up more often for its Black Students, Faculty, and Staff, and people of color.

[muwarrior69]

You are aware that Georgetown University has been 40% Catholic or less for over a decade now, yes?

You are also aware that for many, Church Doctrine is a living breathing document, the same as the Constitution, and can be amended over time?

As for this thread, hopefully Marquette continues to prioritize, and step up more often for its Black Students, Faculty, and Staff, and people of color.

All I am saying is why would a Christian black student apply to Marquette when there are choices like these for that student which may be a better fit.

https://www.onlinechristiancolleges.com/best/hbcu/

[muwarrior69]

You are aware that Georgetown University was down to 40% Catholic student body more than a decade ago, yes?

You are also aware that for many, Church Doctrine is a living breathing document, the same as the Constitution, and can be amended over time?

As for this thread, hopefully Marquette continues to prioritize, and step up more often for its Black Students, Faculty, and Staff, and people of color.

Of course some Doctrine can change, but are the Catholic students at Marquette discussing which Doctrines can and which Doctrines cannot be changed? Are they discussing why Catholics believe in Transubstantiation or the Trinity which defy logic and experience? In my day they were highly debated; even the Resurrection of Christ was questioned?  How much of that is going on at Marquette today?

[Galway Eagle]

All I am saying is why would a Christian black student apply to Marquette when there are choices like these for that student which may be a better fit.

https://www.onlinechristiancolleges.com/best/hbcu/

If I didn't know better I'd read this as you saying only Catholics should go to MU and black people should only go to HBCUs... giving the benefit of the doubt though how about because they like the campus, the prestige of the school, the athletics, the commitment to service, or simply Milwaukee is a great place.

[Galway Eagle]

Of course some Doctrine can change, but are the Catholic students at Marquette discussing which Doctrines can and which Doctrines cannot be changed? Are they discussing why Catholics believe in Transubstantiation or the Trinity which defy logic and experience? In my day they were highly debated; even the Resurrection of Christ was questioned?  How much of that is going on at Marquette today?

None of this helps MU stay above competitors like LUC, DPU, CU, or SLU nor help to reach the level of ND, GU, BC (let alone Fordham or Nova). These are just worthless concepts for old Catholics to obsess on. MU is a pricy school that needs to deliver an education which helps in the working world, what you miss so dearly does nothing to meet that.

[The Sultan]

A lot of the posts below just demonstrate how much MU has lost its Catholic identity. All my professors (i.e. 1960s) in theology and philosophy except for two were Jusuits or Franciscan. Looks like the theology department has abandoned Catholic theology for the most part if not all together. I was required to take 6 theology and 4 philosophy courses for graduation.

If you want to identify "Catholic identity" by the above, you're going to have to look long and hard to fine any institution like that. The fact is that Marquette has had to adjust to American life in 2020, and stay true to its core mission in a world that's less churched than it was in 1969. I mean Catholic schools have lost 80% of their enrollment in 50 years, and the Church is closing parishes all over, and you expect Marquette to pretend it's still 1969?

Catholic institutions have done a much better job navigating this environment than most Protestant based colleges and universities. Many hardly acknowledge their religious roots at all.

[naginiF]

None of this helps MU stay above competitors like LUC, DPU, CU, or SLU nor help to reach the level of ND, GU, BC (let alone Fordham or Nova). These are just worthless concepts for old Catholics to obsess on. MU is a pricy school that needs to deliver an education which helps in the working world, what you miss so dearly does nothing to meet that.

Spot on. I'd say even for high school decisions the question is 'what's best for the kid to succeed and get the best education', religion plays little part.

[muwarrior69]

None of this helps MU stay above competitors like LUC, DPU, CU, or SLU nor help to reach the level of ND, GU, BC (let alone Fordham or Nova). These are just worthless concepts for old Catholics to obsess on. MU is a pricy school that needs to deliver an education which helps in the working world, what you miss so dearly does nothing to meet that.

I graduated with a major in chemistry and biology and all those "worthless concepts" did not prevent me from getting the education to contribute in the working world. You can learn both. Perhaps if MU had more clergy, tuition costs would not be so high, but we don't value religious vocations any more.

There are Catholic colleges that actually still teach Catholicism and prepare student for the real world.

https://catholic-link.org/9-catholic-colleges-that-are-proud-to-be-catholic/

[MU82]

I graduated with a major in chemistry and biology and all those "worthless concepts" did not prevent me from getting the education to contribute in the working world. You can learn both. Perhaps if MU had more clergy, tuition costs would not be so high, but we don't value religious vocations any more.

There are Catholic colleges that actually still teach Catholicism and prepare student for the real world.

https://catholic-link.org/9-catholic-colleges-that-are-proud-to-be-catholic/

OK but why would a Christian black student apply to Marquette when there are choices like these for that student which may be a better fit.

(Insert link to HBCUs that have nothing to do with the point you're making.)

Anyhoo ... how about this agreement Black students made with Marquette? Glad to see it!

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I graduated with a major in chemistry and biology and all those "worthless concepts" did not prevent me from getting the education to contribute in the working world. You can learn both. Perhaps if MU had more clergy, tuition costs would not be so high, but we don't value religious vocations any more.

There are Catholic colleges that actually still teach Catholicism and prepare student for the real world.

https://catholic-link.org/9-catholic-colleges-that-are-proud-to-be-catholic/

Sounds like plenty of choices then for those that are looking for that experience. 

It's not MUs, GTowns or any other universities problem to fix what you are bringing up.  Look at the parents and students.  They are making the choice to trade some academic cache for a more pure experience within their religion (by some definitions). 

[The Sultan]

I graduated with a major in chemistry and biology and all those "worthless concepts" did not prevent me from getting the education to contribute in the working world. You can learn both. Perhaps if MU had more clergy, tuition costs would not be so high, but we don't value religious vocations any more.

There are Catholic colleges that actually still teach Catholicism and prepare student for the real world.

https://catholic-link.org/9-catholic-colleges-that-are-proud-to-be-catholic/

Im pretty sure Marquette is proud to be Catholic.

[Galway Eagle]

I graduated with a major in chemistry and biology and all those "worthless concepts" did not prevent me from getting the education to contribute in the working world. You can learn both. Perhaps if MU had more clergy, tuition costs would not be so high, but we don't value religious vocations any more.

There are Catholic colleges that actually still teach Catholicism and prepare student for the real world.

https://catholic-link.org/9-catholic-colleges-that-are-proud-to-be-catholic/

And how many credits did you need? I look to someone more involved but I'm pretty certain credit requirements have risen for majors which is why you don't see fun elective courses anymore. And even still, you waisted times taking a ridiculous amount of courses on that that could have been spent in a logic course, the first tech courses, Etc etc. I'm all in favor of keeping Phil and Theo but Theo should be World Theo not let's only drill catholic concepts into your head.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I was thinking along the lines of Galway.  As an engineering major I believe I had 16-18 credits a semester.  (The 16 was only as upperclassman.)
Where was there room for something else?  I had to take one Theo, one philosophy, and once more of either.  I recall some English courses Freshman year, and only recall 3 electives total (which ended up being  (2) polisci classes and a  French 2 class.  I wanted to take more language courses but it was stupidly discouraged for engineering majors in the late 80s. 

[reinko]

So on brand for a thread about Black students at Marquette making real and substantive changes, to arguing about Catholic doctrine and the number Theology classes a student takes.

Well done team.

[MU82]

So on brand for a thread about Black students at Marquette making real and substantive changes, to arguing about Catholic doctrine and the number Theology classes a student takes.

Well done team.

Hey, at least nobody chimed in to ask: "WTF ... why no white cultural student center?"

Progress!

[JWags85]

I graduated with a major in chemistry and biology and all those "worthless concepts" did not prevent me from getting the education to contribute in the working world. You can learn both. Perhaps if MU had more clergy, tuition costs would not be so high, but we don't value religious vocations any more.

There are Catholic colleges that actually still teach Catholicism and prepare student for the real world.

https://catholic-link.org/9-catholic-colleges-that-are-proud-to-be-catholic/

A list including a couple foreign schools, a couple theology seminaries, and a few tiny schools the vast majority of people, Catholics and non-Catholics alike, haven't heard of. Super compelling point!

And Ave Maria U which has more in common with Liberty U than Marquette or other larger Jesuit schools.

[The Sultan]

A list including a couple foreign schools, a couple theology seminaries, and a few tiny schools the vast majority of people, Catholics and non-Catholics alike, haven't heard of. Super compelling point!

And Ave Maria U which has more in common with Liberty U than Marquette or other larger Jesuit schools.

And a bunch on schools that are nothing like what Marquette was in 1969.

[tower912]

I took a Protestant Theology overview course from a professor who ended up being the dean of the Calvin College Seminary.    Got him to admit that anybody who could convince 10 people to follow him could start a religion.   

[naginiF]

Timely article in the NYT - it's high school specific but the trend will impact universities as well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/05/us/catholic-school-closings.html

[The Sultan]

Timely article in the NYT - it's high school specific but the trend will impact universities as well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/05/us/catholic-school-closings.html

It already has. Holy Family College, formerly Silver Lake, in Manitowoc has  closed.

[mu_hilltopper]

Religion trends in the US are all downward.    The Catholic population is down a third in 50 years, and those who are left are increasingly not going to church -- roughly, when asked they say they are Catholic because their parents were .. but they aren't practicing, and they aren't indoctrinating their children, rinse, repeat. 

That Marquette "has lost their Catholic identity" is a function of the marketplace.