Tennis

[MuggsyB]

Immature and mentally weak. He pretty much talked himself into losing the 3rd set.

I want Rafa to have the record for major titles when it's all said and done, so while I really appreciate Djokovic's talent and consistency, I usually root against him.

But I sure can't pull for the baby on the other side of the net today.

I just don't understand his constant running commentary.  I mean it's like every point so it appears to be done for attention?  He threw away two service games because of it, it seems rather nonsensical.  What's truly embarrassing is that we're talking about a guy with top 5 talent in the world, easily.  And on grass he probably should have a few Wimbledons under his belt.  I think it goes beyond being immature but I can't quite put my finger on it.  It's like intentional and masochistic. 

[MUBurrow]

I just don't understand his constant running commentary.  I mean it's like every point so it appears to be done for attention?  He threw away two service games because of it, it seems rather nonsensical.  What's truly embarrassing is that we're talking about a guy with top 5 talent in the world, easily.  And on grass he probably should have a few Wimbledons under his belt.  I think it goes beyond being immature but I can't quite put my finger on it.  It's like intentional and masochistic.

Someone on the broadcast compared him to a basketball player (and Wags mentioned his love of basketball earlier in the thread) and the more I watch, the more I think that's apt.  He's kind of a tragic (in the Greek sense) figure to me because he's got this out of this world talent for a sport that just doesn't match his psychology.

[MU82]

I just don't understand his constant running commentary.  I mean it's like every point so it appears to be done for attention?  He threw away two service games because of it, it seems rather nonsensical.  What's truly embarrassing is that we're talking about a guy with top 5 talent in the world, easily.  And on grass he probably should have a few Wimbledons under his belt.  I think it goes beyond being immature but I can't quite put my finger on it.  It's like intentional and masochistic.

You might be right ... but NK's head is too dark and scary a place for me to contemplate all that stuff.

Great serving to stay in the match. I admire Djokovic's focus.

[MuggsyB]

21.  Not a well played tb by Kyrgios.

[MU82]

You can't just concede in the middle of a tiebreaker. Good riddance.

A shame that Rafa wasn't physically right.

Anyway, very impressive performance by Djokovic. In addition to his superior shotmaking, just incredible concentration and mental toughness.

[MUBurrow]

'82 - hot take question for you.  What do you see as different between Kyrgios and Osaka?

[MUBurrow]

21.  Not a well played tb by Kyrgios.

Yup.  The moment really overwhelmed him there.  Too bad, but that's what makes the big 3 the big 3, I suppose.

[MU82]

'82 - hot take question for you.  What do you see as different between Kyrgios and Osaka?

I don't know, and I don't have any guesses.

[MuggsyB]

You can't just concede in the middle of a tiebreaker. Good riddance.

A shame that Rafa wasn't physically right.

Anyway, very impressive performance by Djokovic. In addition to his superior shotmaking, just incredible concentration and mental toughness.

There's no doubt that the mental toughness of Djokovic and Rafa are at the highest possible level.  Tremendous competitors and they rarely beat themselves.  Federer may actually be the most gifted with his all court game but he's not as tough.  He threw away a few huge GS Finals against the Djoker and Nadal.

[MUBurrow]

I don't know, and I don't have any guesses.

Okay, but like, would you also say these things about Osaka?

Immature and mentally weak. He pretty much talked himself into losing the 3rd set.

But I sure can't pull for the baby on the other side of the net today.

[MU82]

Okay, but like, would you also say these things about Osaka?

I haven't, so I guess not.

Anyway, funny comments by Djokovic about Kyrgios after match.

[MuggsyB]

Say what you want about Djokovic, and I'm 100% a Rafa guy, but you have to admire his tenacity and focus.  Also, he's always been the least liked of the Big 3 but the guy just keeps coming.  If he winds up #1 all-time in G-Slams he will have definitely earned it. 

[MU82]

Say what you want about Djokovic, and I'm 100% a Rafa guy, but you have to admire his tenacity and focus.  Also, he's always been the least liked of the Big 3 but the guy just keeps coming.  If he winds up #1 all-time in G-Slams he will have definitely earned it.

Totally agree, Muggs.

[rocket surgeon]

i'm just glad kyrgios didn't win...he's a major league cack sacker

[MuggsyB]

i'm just glad kyrgios didn't win...he's a major league cack sacker

Hard to dispute that analysis.

I didn't realize that as of now Djoker can't play in the USOpen or Australian.  I'm wondering if that's gonna be upheld in NY?    it's conceivable his next G-Slam won't be until May of 2023.  Advantage Rafa if that's the case.  15 French Opens are on the table btw. 

[MuggsyB]

I'm also going to predict Kyrgios does not make another GS Final. 

[JWags85]

I'm also going to predict Kyrgios does not make another GS Final. 

I think the answer to that will show itself in the next 12-18 months.  If this invigorates him and he starts playing with focus, I don't agree.  He was the clear second best player the past fortnight in London.  He's not a kid, but he's still just entering his prime.  Its all how he handles mentals and his stress.

For all the justified criticism, he handled losing with grace and class today.

[MuggsyB]

I think the answer to that will show itself in the next 12-18 months.  If this invigorates him and he starts playing with focus, I don't agree.  He was the clear second best player the past fortnight in London.  He's not a kid, but he's still just entering his prime.  Its all how he handles mentals and his stress.

For all the justified criticism, he handled losing with grace and class today.

His best surface is grass but he should also be dangerous on a fast USOPEN hard court.  That said I think he had a fortuitous draw and Tsisipas lost his composure by most accounts.  Remember JWags Zverev is out and Medvy, Berratini, and Rublev didn't play.  What I'm saying is I don't trust Nick Kyrgios to get his act together so to speak.  In fact I would not be surprised at all if he has a complete meltdown within a year. 

[MU82]

I think the answer to that will show itself in the next 12-18 months.  If this invigorates him and he starts playing with focus, I don't agree.  He was the clear second best player the past fortnight in London.  He's not a kid, but he's still just entering his prime.  Its all how he handles mentals and his stress.

For all the justified criticism, he handled losing with grace and class today.

At the risk of getting lost in semantics, I'll somewhat disagree that Kyrgios was "clearly" the second best player. Rafa had been playing great till he got hurt. The American kid Rafa played in the quarters, Taylor Fritz, hadn't lost a single set before he ran into Rafa and was playing awesome tennis. Kyrgios, meanwhile, was taken to 5 sets by two different unranked opponents. I'd say Rafa was playing at least as well as Kyrgios, and Fritz was at the very least close rather than "clearly" outclassed. Just my opinion.

Totally agree with the way he handled the loss today. There were a couple of times during the match that I thought he was seconds away from going ballistic, but he held it together, and he couldn't have been more gracious afterward. His willingness to stick up for Djokovic before the Australian Open obviously melted the iceberg that had been between them.

I also agree that Kyrgios now has a chance to show how good he really can be because, as you said, he's entering what should be his prime. He has all the shots, and goodness knows he has the serve. But a champion doesn't just throw away multiple points during a tiebreaker in the final of a major because he's upset with himself. It will be interesting to see if this was just a fart in the wind or the first step toward a meaningful career.

[NCMUFan]

Sometimes internal demons that drives you to excel can also be your undoing.

Regarding Nick Kyrgios, his antics must be pretty well known on the circuit.
If you know you were going to play him, I would have my practice partner do his antics to try to rattle me during practice.
While you have to have the skills at that level, during a match, focus is what will allow you to win or lose.
Kyrgios clearly got to Tsitsipas and we know what the results were.

[JWags85]

His best surface is grass but he should also be dangerous on a fast USOPEN hard court.  That said I think he had a fortuitous draw and Tsisipas lost his composure by most accounts.  Remember JWags Zverev is out and Medvy, Berratini, and Rublev didn't play.  What I'm saying is I don't trust Nick Kyrgios to get his act together so to speak.  In fact I would not be surprised at all if he has a complete meltdown within a year. 

His draw was only fortuitous that he didn't face a healthy Rafa.  You want a fortuitous draw...Fritz didn't play as single top 50 player until Rafa.

I know that some big names were out, but at his peak, Kyrgios can compete with all of them.  This wasn't a cinderella story.  This was an elite talent who seemingly put it together for the first time in a major in his career.

At the risk of getting lost in semantics, I'll somewhat disagree that Kyrgios was "clearly" the second best player. Rafa had been playing great till he got hurt. The American kid Rafa played in the quarters, Taylor Fritz, hadn't lost a single set before he ran into Rafa and was playing awesome tennis. Kyrgios, meanwhile, was taken to 5 sets by two different unranked opponents. I'd say Rafa was playing at least as well as Kyrgios, and Fritz was at the very least close rather than "clearly" outclassed. Just my opinion.

Totally agree with the way he handled the loss today. There were a couple of times during the match that I thought he was seconds away from going ballistic, but he held it together, and he couldn't have been more gracious afterward. His willingness to stick up for Djokovic before the Australian Open obviously melted the iceberg that had been between them.

I also agree that Kyrgios now has a chance to show how good he really can be because, as you said, he's entering what should be his prime. He has all the shots, and goodness knows he has the serve. But a champion doesn't just throw away multiple points during a tiebreaker in the final of a major because he's upset with himself. It will be interesting to see if this was just a fart in the wind or the first step toward a meaningful career.

Thats fair.  I wouldn't say he was consistently the 2nd best, cause thats the Kyrgios experience.  He even admitted to conceding the 4th against Nakashima to save himself for the 5th.  But, IMO, his top level, that he repeatedly showed in crucial moments in a number of matches, was the second best in the tourney.  Not a hill I would die on, but just my take.

[MU82]

Thats fair.  I wouldn't say he was consistently the 2nd best, cause thats the Kyrgios experience.  He even admitted to conceding the 4th against Nakashima to save himself for the 5th.  But, IMO, his top level, that he repeatedly showed in crucial moments in a number of matches, was the second best in the tourney.  Not a hill I would die on, but just my take.

Reasonable. We certainly agree that he's a talented tennis player. We'll see what that means for his future when his future becomes his present!

[MUBurrow]

I'm probably as big a Kyrgios-stan as you'll find, and I am very bearish on his future. I would bet significant money that this weekend was the best result of his career.  Yes, he has his explosive personality and his emotions get away from him, but I think his real career ceiling is that he just doesn't want it bad enough.  And again, that's coming from a huge fan. Even in his very gracious and funny post-match comments yesterday he responded to questions about whether this will motivate his game going forward with "Eh, we'll see. I'm going on vacation next."  I think winning Wimbledon would have been a dream come true for Kyrgios, but not the dream come true.

[JWags85]

I'm probably as big a Kyrgios-stan as you'll find, and I am very bearish on his future. I would bet significant money that this weekend was the best result of his career.  Yes, he has his explosive personality and his emotions get away from him, but I think his real career ceiling is that he just doesn't want it bad enough.  And again, that's coming from a huge fan. Even in his very gracious and funny post-match comments yesterday he responded to questions about whether this will motivate his game going forward with "Eh, we'll see. I'm going on vacation next."  I think winning Wimbledon would have been a dream come true for Kyrgios, but not the dream come true.

Totally fair.  I think part of my optimism, if you will, is this coming on the heels of the Aussie Open doubles run where he was having an absolute blast.

He's never going to be an obsessive winner laser focused on the next great tennis feat.  But aging a bit, some success, perhaps settling down a bit with his fiancee, could be something.

[Jockey]

Federer out of the rankings for the first time since 1997.