Should Schools open in the Fall?

[muwarrior69]

With new outbreaks it looks like my granddaughter will miss 4th grade here in New Jersey. How can 15-20 kids social distance in a classroom when church gatherings as of now only allow 25 in sanctuaries that hold 600 people. How are you going to keep a mask on 5, 6, 7 year olds for 6 hours and even if they do how conducive is that to learning. 3 months of online learning here was a complete disaster. Our Governors should be planning for this now, yet many seem AWOL.

This whole pandemic is a mess.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

With new outbreaks it looks like my granddaughter will miss 4th grade here in New Jersey. How can 15-20 kids social distance in a classroom when church gatherings as of now only allow 25 in sanctuaries that hold 600 people. How are you going to keep a mask on 5, 6, 7 year olds for 6 hours and even if they do how conducive is that to learning. 3 months of online learning here was a complete disaster. Our Governors should be planning for this now, yet many seem AWOL.

This whole pandemic is a mess.

School districts are planning. There just aren’t many good answers.

[injuryBug]

Schools need to open.  academically for the elementary and middle school kids virtual learning is useless.  Even for the HS kids not a lot of learning is going on.  Then you have the social aspect.  Not to mention the mental health of these kids

If a teacher is high risk then maybe they teach from home and have a camera in the class so they can see and be seen.  At risk student same approach

[Big Papi]

We are going to have a lost generation if we go over a full year of schooling from home that way its been done the past 3 months.  We can't hit the pause button on education and try to wait this out.  Younger kids are like sponges and need a system in place to learn.  Older kids need better structure to keep them on task. 

We need to come up with legitimate ways to educate kids if they are forced to stay home.  Who is going to step up and provide internet/wifi for all?  Who is going to step up and provide laptops for all?  Who is going to step up and provide engaging educational software for all?  That is just the basics that is needed.  We will need new creative ways to offer support for educators and students.  And what about looking hard at other policies like possible year round school sessions once we get past this?

Now is the time to step up and answer all these questions, not come up with 3 generic options and a shrug of the shoulders.

[Big Papi]

Schools need to open.  academically for the elementary and middle school kids virtual learning is useless.  Even for the HS kids not a lot of learning is going on.  Then you have the social aspect.  Not to mention the mental health of these kids

If a teacher is high risk then maybe they teach from home and have a camera in the class so they can see and be seen.  At risk student same approach

I agree 100%.  I have a 2nd grader, HS Soph and College Jr.  All great students and all have taken a step back.  I understand the slap in the face of the situation but real solutions need to be put in place if we are even contemplating virtual learning.

[reinko]

We are going to have a lost generation if we go over a full year of schooling from home that way its been done the past 3 months.  We can't hit the pause button on education and try to wait this out.  Younger kids are like sponges and need a system in place to learn.  Older kids need better structure to keep them on task. 

We need to come up with legitimate ways to educate kids if they are forced to stay home.  Who is going to step up and provide internet/wifi for all?  Who is going to step up and provide laptops for all?  Who is going to step up and provide engaging educational software for all?  That is just the basics that is needed.  We will need new creative ways to offer support for educators and students.  And what about looking hard at other policies like possible year round school sessions once we get past this?

Now is the time to step up and answer all these questions, not come up with 3 generic options and a shrug of the shoulders.

A lost generation?  Kids are a lot more resilient than you give them credit for.

I learned without laptop and WiFi, and so did you.  The education system will evolve, and adapt, and you I imagine the summers of 2021 and 2022 will full of opportunities to catch up.  And it’s not the end of the world if some kids are left behind a grade, but a lost generation...sheesh.

I certainly hope for the best, and agree 5 days a week would be fantastic, but just don’t think it’s gonna happen.

[GooooMarquette]

A lost generation?  Kids are a lot more resilient than you give them credit for.

I learned without laptop and WiFi, and so did you.  The education system will evolve, and adapt, and you I imagine the summers of 2021 and 2022 will full of opportunities to catch up.  And it’s not the end of the world if some kids are left behind a grade, but a lost generation...sheesh.

I certainly hope for the best, and agree 5 days a week would be fantastic, but just don’t think it’s gonna happen.

This.

[injuryBug]

A lost generation?  Kids are a lot more resilient than you give them credit for.

I learned without laptop and WiFi, and so did you.  The education system will evolve, and adapt, and you I imagine the summers of 2021 and 2022 will full of opportunities to catch up.  And it’s not the end of the world if some kids are left behind a grade, but a lost generation...sheesh.

I certainly hope for the best, and agree 5 days a week would be fantastic, but just don’t think it’s gonna happen.

I have 2 7th graders a sophomore and a senior.  The sophomore is way below average and he was able to get a 3.3 in virtual learning.  Never had above a 2.7 before did he learn anything nope.  He wants to work with his hands how will he take a shop class from home? My senior 3.6 student breezed to a 3.9 last quarter.  spent about 2 hours doing schoolwork and the rest in the driveway playing basketball or on his phone. 

That does not even touch on the parent involvement in all this.  How are 2 full-time working parents supposed to also be the teacher at home

[injuryBug]

This.

Mental Health

That was the major topic when my kids had their yearly check ups.  Our pediatrician spent more time individually with my kids than ever before.  The entire time was on mental health

[GooooMarquette]

I have 2 7th graders a sophomore and a senior.  The sophomore is way below average and he was able to get a 3.3 in virtual learning.  Never had above a 2.7 before did he learn anything nope.  He wants to work with his hands how will he take a shop class from home? My senior 3.6 student breezed to a 3.9 last quarter.  spent about 2 hours doing schoolwork and the rest in the driveway playing basketball or on his phone. 

That does not even touch on the parent involvement in all this.  How are 2 full-time working parents supposed to also be the teacher at home

Schools had virtually no time to completely restructure everything from in-person to online learning. With the few weeks last spring for experience, and an entire summer to plan, things should be dramatically different in the fall if online learning becomes the norm.

[injuryBug]

Schools had virtually no time to completely restructure everything from in-person to online learning. With the few weeks last spring for experience, and an entire summer to plan, things should be dramatically different in the fall if online learning becomes the norm.

My wife is a teacher aide and I will say she is in constant communication and there is no planning by the teachers.  Most districts do not know what they will be doing come fall.  So they might have a month to prepare.  I will say this the younger teachers less than 10 years maybe out of college did some really good things. 
The teachers in our district and other districts around here want to go back and have no desire to do virtual learning

From what I know about my district the majority of the summer to this point has been figuring out how to get kids back in the building

[GooooMarquette]

Mental Health

That was the major topic when my kids had their yearly check ups.  Our pediatrician spent more time individually with my kids than ever before.  The entire time was on mental health

I totally get the mental health aspect of this. But what about the mental health aspect of letting the pandemic get so far out of control that we have to shut everything back down again - not just schools, but all non-essential businesses - and mom and dad don't know where the money for dinner is coming from?

There is no easy answer.

[GooooMarquette]

My wife is a teacher aide and I will say she is in constant communication and there is no planning by the teachers.  Most districts do not know what they will be doing come fall.  So they might have a month to prepare.  I will say this the younger teachers less than 10 years maybe out of college did some really good things. 
The teachers in our district and other districts around here want to go back and have no desire to do virtual learning

From what I know about my district the majority of the summer to this point has been figuring out how to get kids back in the building

School districts should definitely be planning for how to get kids safely back in the building...but they are being negligent (IMHO) if they are not also doing significant planning about how to optimize online learning.

[Big Papi]

A lost generation?  Kids are a lot more resilient than you give them credit for.

I learned without laptop and WiFi, and so did you.  The education system will evolve, and adapt, and you I imagine the summers of 2021 and 2022 will full of opportunities to catch up.  And it’s not the end of the world if some kids are left behind a grade, but a lost generation...sheesh.

I certainly hope for the best, and agree 5 days a week would be fantastic, but just don’t think it’s gonna happen.

Considering our math and science scores lag behind other countries even before COVID-19, a lost generation is where we are headed.

[Big Papi]

This.

Tell that to the inner city children who struggled with education while being in a classroom.  Without, no chance.  Resilient or not.

[GooooMarquette]

Tell that to the inner city children who struggled with education while being in a classroom.  Without, no chance.  Resilient or not.

If you have a way of getting kids back into classrooms while the numbers are spinning out of control without making the pandemic even worse, I'm sure school systems would be all ears.

This pandemic has sucked for everyone - from the healthcare providers who are working their a$$es off, to the unemployed, to people who struggle to put food on the table and pay rent, to people who still have money but nowhere to go, to kids who struggle even more with distance learning. But crowding kids into a classroom is only going to make it worse.

[Jockey]

My wife is a teacher aide and I will say she is in constant communication and there is no planning by the teachers.  Most districts do not know what they will be doing come fall.  So they might have a month to prepare.  I will say this the younger teachers less than 10 years maybe out of college did some really good things. 
The teachers in our district and other districts around here want to go back and have no desire to do virtual learning

From what I know about my district the majority of the summer to this point has been figuring out how to get kids back in the building

An awful lot of generalities in your post.

[jfmu]

They need to go back to school unless unilaterally kids will repeat a grade. Online learning is not effective for most of the age groups and even at some of the higher grade levels the learning has been sub par.

[GooooMarquette]

They need to go back to school unless unilaterally kids will repeat a grade. Online learning is not effective for most of the age groups and even at some of the higher grade levels the learning has been sub par.

No debate here about the effectiveness of online learning. Unfortunately, the virus doesn’t care...just like it didn’t care that people were unhappy when they couldn’t go to bars and restaurants.

If we could get the numbers down to a reasonable level (see the reopening criteria that POTUS announced several weeks ago), I would be all for reopening schools in the fall. I won’t hold my breath on that though, since neither state nor federal leaders have shown the political will to get us there.

[injuryBug]

An awful lot of generalities in your post.

OK Jockey. No district knows what they will do come fall.  Is that better for you?!  WI DPI just came out with options for districts in the fall.  I know for a fact that not all districts are using those guides and are working on ideas themselves.  As for the teachers preparing for fall they are not, that I also know as a fact since they have no idea what the fall will look like. 
I will be sure to get all the teachers in my district to personally talk with you to give their opinion and thoughts

[Pakuni]

As for the teachers preparing for fall they are not, that I also know as a fact since they have no idea what the fall will look like.

I have teachers in my family and as neighbors. They are preparing for the fall.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Here is CTs plan.  They are trying to make it happen but preparing contingencies if they ultimately need to send kids home again.

https://portal.ct.gov/Office-of-the-Governor/News/Press-Releases/2020/06-2020/Governor-Lamont-Announces-Plans-for-the-2020-21-School-Year-Amid-the-Ongoing-COVID19-Pandemic

[injuryBug]

I have teachers in my family and as neighbors. They are preparing for the fall.

For the fall in classrooms or virtual?  I know the teachers around here are waiting to find out how they are supposed to prepare

[Pakuni]

For the fall in classrooms or virtual?  I know the teachers around here are waiting to find out how they are supposed to prepare

Both.
That's why they're preparing now.

[GooooMarquette]

Here is CTs plan.  They are trying to make it happen but preparing contingencies if they ultimately need to send kids home again.

https://portal.ct.gov/Office-of-the-Governor/News/Press-Releases/2020/06-2020/Governor-Lamont-Announces-Plans-for-the-2020-21-School-Year-Amid-the-Ongoing-COVID19-Pandemic

MN has issued guidelines as well, and provides for anything from totally in person to totally online. Below are two documents, one issued by the governor’s office, and the other issued by Education Minnesota.

https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/schools/k12planguide.pdf

https://www.educationminnesota.org/EDMN/media/edmn-files/resources/MDE-Guidance-for-2020-21-School-Year-Planning.pdf

[#UnleashSean]

At some point this needs to just run its course. We're not going to quarantine it out of existence. Unless you're new Zealand.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

At some point this needs to just run its course. We're not going to quarantine it out of existence. Unless you're new Zealand.

Show your math

[Pakuni]

At some point this needs to just run its course. We're not going to quarantine it out of existence. Unless you're new Zealand.

Nobody serious has suggested quarantining it out of existence.

[Hards Alumni]

At some point this needs to just run its course. We're not going to quarantine it out of existence. Unless you're new Zealand.

Odd, a lot of places in the world are doing really well.  What do they have in common?

[Chili]

Odd, a lot of places in the world are doing really well.  What do they have in common?

!) Masks 2) Lots of testing with Tracing

It's possible to do this but it won't happen with the vacuum of leadership.

[Hards Alumni]

!) Masks 2) Lots of testing with Tracing

It's possible to do this but it won't happen with the vacuum of leadership.

Correctamundo.gif

[muwarrior69]

!) Masks 2) Lots of testing with Tracing

It's possible to do this but it won't happen with the vacuum of leadership.

I agree we are not doing a good job at contact tracing and yes leadership in this area seems non-existent both at the federal and local level because our leaders have politicized the pandemic and not treating it as a serious health issue in and of itself.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I agree we are not doing a good job at contact tracing and yes leadership in this area seems non-existent both at the federal and local level because our leaders have politicized the pandemic and not treating it as a serious health issue in and of itself.

Well one leader did.

[mu_hilltopper]

Wife of a veteran teacher here.

One article my wife refers to often is that of the experience of teachers in natural-disaster zones, like hurricanes Katrina and Sandy, both hitting during the school calendar.

Roughly, the thesis was that it's hard, but 15 years past Katrina, those students whose schools were destroyed?  They survived.  Some are doctors and lawyers and scientists, etc.

I have few worries for K-8.  Academically solid kids are going to be academically solid again.   (/teal, the other half were going to be working at Arby's anyhow, and their future is the same.)


High School .. that's more of an issue.  FR/So/Jrs .. they are learning how to be functioning humans.   Thankfully they can handle more virtual stuff, but yeah, troubling.

Socially, yeah, they'll all suffer -- except if I had a choice of 1.5 years of virtual learning versus the insanity were brewing with kids on phones 15 hours a day, virtual learning is comparatively a bump in the road.


If my wife goes back to the classroom in fall, I am buying ~5 UV-C air filters for her room.  That should be standard in every classroom in major cities, minimum.


TLDR, no good answers.  They'll survive though.

[shoothoops]

Common Sense Media reports that 30% of K-12 kids across the country do not have reliable access to internet and devices. They estimate the number of teachers at 10%.

[Hards Alumni]

Common Sense Media reports that 30% of K-12 kids across the country do not have reliable access to internet and devices. They estimate the number of teachers at 10%.

My guess is that data trends rural.  We need to make internet access available in every household in America.

[GooooMarquette]

My guess is that data trends rural.  We need to make internet access available in every household in America.

Agreed. For many years, internet access was appropriately seen as a luxury. But we are now in an age where it is as essential as reliable telephone service.

[GooooMarquette]

[duplicate post]

[Big Papi]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pediatric-group-calls-for-children-to-return-to-schools-despite-coronavirus/ar-BB166PIR

[Jockey]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pediatric-group-calls-for-children-to-return-to-schools-despite-coronavirus/ar-BB166PIR

It would be great if we could open schools in September.

First we need to figure out what to do with kids who have high risk parents or grandparents living at home.

[Big Papi]

It would be great if we could open schools in September.

First we need to figure out what to do with kids who have high risk parents or grandparents living at home.

I guess kids with those issues could stay home and insulate themselves and their family from the world.  Hopefully we can virtual learn them if there are viable resources available.  With high risk parents and grandparents living at home in isolation, they should more than easily be able to home school them.  Otherwise they can always wait it out and pick up learning where they left off when they are able to attend class whenever the outside world is considered safe and sound for them and their family.