Undergrad school does it matter?

[weir1]

Is it worth extra $$ to go to Marquette or other Private undergrad university?  My son will be a freshman next year, undecided major.  He has delayed choosing a school due to covid.   I am looking for input regarding: is it worth it to go to an undergrad at Marquette, DePaul, or Loyola versus a state school such as UW-Milwaukee or UW-whitewater.   He does not want to go to UW-Madison or Univ of Minnesota due to size of school.   After scholarships cost difference is about $14,000 per year.   Is networking, contacts made, professors, etc.  better in the private schools?     Major undecided but most likely business or liberal arts😕.  He is really struggling with decision as no school jumped out as being “the one”.  Thanks in advance.

[#UnleashSean]

The answer is pretty much, no not at all. Your undergrad doesn't really matter much at all.



If you really wanna look into it. Your first two years all your doing is taking general Ed classes and that really doesn't matter where you go. I went to UW Waukesha for two years where I paid 1500 in tuition each semester.

If you get above a 2.5 you get auto accepted into any uw school (all credits transfer) as well as Marquette, Carol, and others. Though credit transfer is harder.

I then moved on to uw lacrosse where fafsa paid for the entire tuition. So I got all 4 years of undergrad for around 6000.

Then I went to grad school at Marquette.

[🏀]

Depends on your field. In my experience, it very much did matter.

That being said, two years at community college and then Marquette isn’t a bad choice. End result is the same.

[MU82]

Totally agree with Unleash. For most, it does not matter, and certainly not for the schools you are discussing. If we were talking Ivies or Stanford or Northwestern or ND, maybe ... but we're not. And that's nothing against MU, Loyola and DePaul.

I could hit you with all kinds of anecdotes, but I won't bore you with them. All I'll say is based on dozens of family members and friends (and the kids of family members and friends), I have seen enough evidence to firmly believe that school is what you put into it. And every school is a "party school" if a student wants it to be.

IMHO, your son would thrive at the UW schools you mentioned if he wants to thrive, and he'd be just as likely to find suitable employment after graduation (or get into another school/grad school if that's what he wants) as he would if he went to MU, LU or DU.

[mu_hilltopper]

Is it worth extra $$ to go to Marquette or other Private undergrad university?   Is networking, contacts made, professors, etc.  better in the private schools?     Major undecided but most likely business or liberal arts😕.  He is really struggling with decision as no school jumped out as being “the one”.  Thanks in advance.

Yeah, the answer you are seeking is: Nope.  While you will find fans of private ed, fans of Marquette here, the older you get, the more you realize the name of your school has little impact on your success later in life.    Sure, elite schools may open doors in your 20s, but MU is certainly not an ivy school. 


As for networking, the school is a factor, but the bigger factor is your student.  Tons of kids are .. just getting through school .. I don't mean they are scraping by, I mean they are focused on the class at hand.   The more extroverted your kid is, the more 'networking' they will get out of a school.   The Marquette name has some cache, but it rapidly disappears if you're 100 miles away.  Frankly, UW, in this region, has a 10x the alumni base and network capacity.


And no .. I don't think there's an edge with professors or curriculum on private vs public.   Each school has their average, and better than average programs and profs.[size=78%] [/size]

[MUBurrow]

I am also on board with most all of this. One thing that I think can be overlooked if your son is likely to pursue a major that will require him to go grad school, especially business or liberal arts, or law school, god forbid, is undergrad class size.  My high school was small, and I tended to get lost and intimidated in the larger lectures my freshman and even sophomore years. There will be a bunch of those gen-ed, big lecture hall type classes your first couple years no matter where you go.  But I think those wind down earlier at smaller schools. And in a competetive grad school market, minimizing hits to your GPA from things like that can matter.

Grain of salt warning though - I was in the honors program at MU, which meant even a lot of my gen eds were in a smaller environment.  Ironically, I think my graduating GPA would have been significantly worse had I not been in the honors program, even if the classes have a reputation as being "harder."

[muwarrior69]

Depends on your field. In my experience, it very much did matter.

That being said, two years at community college and then Marquette isn’t a bad choice. End result is the same.

My daughter went that route (not MU but another 4 year school) after community college as she changed majors 3 times. She graduated with a BA in accounting. Hated all her accounting jobs and wound up getting her RN which in the long run she found much more satisfying. Sometimes it takes a kid awhile to know what they really want to do.

[4everwarriors]

Here's the skinny:
Do very well academically wherever he chooses to go to college and it won't matter one bit. If he's smart and does school well, then all door's are open. However, the competition will be greater at select universities. Everyone at NU, Stanford, Harvard, etc. is smart. If professional school is in his plans, admission committees make very little distinction between an undergrad degree from UW-Whitewater and one from Duke. And, you can be at a disadvantage by opting for the "better" school and falling short on the GPA.  Grade point and entrance exams such as MCAT, DAT, and LSAT are heavily weighted. For example, 3.80 GPA and a DAT score of 21 is more important to a dental school admission committee than a 3.00 GPA and a DAT score of 23.
Financially, as for public vs private, save the money, unless you really value the school's culture.

[MU82]

My daughter went that route (not MU but another 4 year school) after community college as she changed majors 3 times. She graduated with a BA in accounting. Hated all her accounting jobs and wound up getting her RN which in the long run she found much more satisfying. Sometimes it takes a kid awhile to know what they really want to do.

So true. My daughter went to Lawrence. Pricey! She is now a mortgage broker, and apparently a very good one because she does quite well. But she got hired by this company despite having zero experience in the industry and having graduated Lawrence with a paleontology degree after changing majors. She could have gone to pretty much any state school and ended up in the exact same place. Similarly, my wife got a journalism degree from Marquette but never used it. At the age of 40, she went to a community college to get her associate's degree in nursing. And after she worked as an RN for 12 years, she got her Bach in Nursing from an online program.

All kinds of ways to accomplish one's goals ... and often an 18-year-old doesn't even know what his or her goals are!

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Here's the skinny:
Do very well academically wherever he chooses to go to college and it won't matter one bit. If he's smart and does school well, then all door's are open. However, the competition will be greater at select universities. Everyone at NU, Stanford, Harvard, etc. is smart. If professional school is in his plans, admission committees make very little distinction between an undergrad degree from UW-Whitewater and one from Duke. And, you can be at a disadvantage by opting for the "better" school and falling short on the GPA.  Grade point and entrance exams such as MCAT, DAT, and LSAT are heavily weighted. For example, 3.80 GPA and a DAT score of 21 is more important to a dental school admission committee than a 3.00 GPA and a DAT score of 23.
Financially, as for public vs private, save the money, unless you really value the school's culture.

The bolded really isn't always the case.  For instance, as good of a business school that Whitewater is, Marquette's is better.  You will have a different caliber of business recruiting there and MBA schools are going to look at a degree from MU different than one from UWW.

For most people though, you are correct.  A degree from one isn't going to be that much different than another. 

[Billy Hoyle]

Here's the skinny:
Do very well academically wherever he chooses to go to college and it won't matter one bit. If he's smart and does school well, then all door's are open. However, the competition will be greater at select universities. Everyone at NU, Stanford, Harvard, etc. is smart. If professional school is in his plans, admission committees make very little distinction between an undergrad degree from UW-Whitewater and one from Duke. And, you can be at a disadvantage by opting for the "better" school and falling short on the GPA.  Grade point and entrance exams such as MCAT, DAT, and LSAT are heavily weighted. For example, 3.80 GPA and a DAT score of 21 is more important to a dental school admission committee than a 3.00 GPA and a DAT score of 23.
Financially, as for public vs private, save the money, unless you really value the school's culture.

Maybe that’s the case for dental school but law schools are all about the LSAT. It’s the great equalizer with schools having different grading scales and kids in different classes and majors (no set pre-law curriculum). Many of the “elite schools” have ridiculous grade inflation. Over 80% graduate Harvard with a 3.5 and above.

As for the grad school point you made, for the majority of schools that is true. However, at the “elite” grad schools like the Ivies, Berkeley, Stanford, Duke, Michigan, NW, etc., preference is given to their fellow grads and an applicants from outside that circle has to be extraordinary to get admitted. An Ivy grad gets extra points on their app to another Ivy school, just for being an Ivy grad as opposed to a MU grad. They want to keep the circle small.

Hell, at Ivy schools you are encourage to marry another Ivy grad so you’ll have “extraordinary” children.

[MU82]

Hell, at Ivy schools you are encourage to marry another Ivy grad so you’ll have “extraordinary” children.

I showed them! I married a Marquette girl and we have extra-extraordinary children! Damn adorable grandkids, too!!!

[Billy Hoyle]

I showed them! I married a Marquette girl and we have extra-extraordinary children! Damn adorable grandkids, too!!!

I married a Marquette girl too. We have an extraordinary, uh, cat.

My wife’s sister likes to throw her Harvard degree in our faces every 30 seconds or so. My response has been “ well, you’ll never attend a Final Four to see your alma mater play, I’ll take that.”

[DegenerateDish]

Depends on your field. In my experience, it very much did matter.

That being said, two years at community college and then Marquette isn’t a bad choice. End result is the same.

My wife is a counselor at a community college. She’s worked there for 12 years and I agree with this statement. Save the money and worry if a kid is undecided, go to a community college, figure things out. I think some kids need that adjustment period between high school and college to figure things out, and can still go then get the full college experience at half the price.

[lostpassword]

Is it worth extra $$ to go to Marquette or other Private undergrad university?

There is lots of legitimate advice above relative to education and career opportunities.  I'm going to answer this "Yes, it is worth it" but from a wholly different angle... admittedly one heavily influenced from personal experience.  I don't doubt that I would have done similar career-wise had I gone to UW (which I had a housing deposit into) or a UW-Hyphen, but I don't believe I'd have grown in other ways the same.  I came to Marquette from a small town in WI which lacked diversity (in color, thought, religion, sexual-orientation, etc.).  Marquette exposed me to an urban and diverse environment and course/service-work which made me think critically about things I'd never witnessed or thought critically about before.  "I get it now" was a mental refrain I had often

I'd encourage you and your son to consider the environment(s) and missions of the institutions being considered.

[Billy Hoyle]

There is lots of legitimate advice above relative to education and career opportunities.  I'm going to answer this "Yes, it is worth it" but from a wholly different angle... admittedly one heavily influenced from personal experience.  I don't doubt that I would have done similar career-wise had I gone to UW (which I had a housing deposit into) or a UW-Hyphen, but I don't believe I'd have grown in other ways the same.  I came to Marquette from a small town in WI which lacked diversity (in color, thought, religion, sexual-orientation, etc.).  Marquette exposed me to an urban and diverse environment and course/service-work which made me think critically about things I'd never witnessed or thought critically about before. "I get it now" was a mental refrain I had often

I'd encourage you and your son to consider the environment(s) and missions of the institutions being considered.

Same here. Living in the halls was an extremely important aspect of Marquette. I had more ethnic diversity on my floor in McCormick than in my high school of 750 and those I am closest with from college were dorm mates.

[JWags85]

As someone who had major issues with employment about a decade ago post graduation, I’m pretty connected to this question.

If you’re an exceptional or especially driven student, undergrad and major don’t matter.  You network, extra-curriculars, etc.. and you come out attractive and with connections.

Much less if you’re going to go to grad school. I have two friends, one a Harvard Law grad and the other a Wharton MBA. Neither went to even “good” undergrad schools, but excelled there. And if you’re talking just intro marketing/sales jobs or the like, then it’s probably not important.

But more competitive fields, even as a good/normal bright student, you’re gonna have trouble even getting an interview if they don’t like the undergrad school.  I had a great story about why I chose my major/minor combo and one of my college clubs, and the only time I got to tell it in an interview after graduation was cause I met someone at a Cubs game who got my resume out of the garbage at his firm after the fact. And I went to a really good undergrad school, but it wasn’t a target school for Chicago finance firms and I didn’t have a highlighted major.

I was blessed to have parental assistance with tuition. But for those not getting a scholarship, I am hugely in favor of CC or branch campus attendance before transferring for your last 2-3 years at a good school. I know a few people who excelled in that way

[GooooMarquette]

Add me to the list of people who supports two years at a community college or perhaps a UW-hyphen or UM-hyphen school. At that point, your son should have a better idea of his direction and can make a more informed decision about where to spend the next couple of years.

If he is looking at UW-Milwaukee or Whitewater because of the size, I would suggest he also consider University of Minnesota-Duluth. Solid school in an awesome city and more manageable campus than UW-Madison or UM-Twin Cities.

[Herman Cain]

Is it worth extra $$ to go to Marquette or other Private undergrad university?  My son will be a freshman next year, undecided major.  He has delayed choosing a school due to covid.   I am looking for input regarding: is it worth it to go to an undergrad at Marquette, DePaul, or Loyola versus a state school such as UW-Milwaukee or UW-whitewater.   He does not want to go to UW-Madison or Univ of Minnesota due to size of school.   After scholarships cost difference is about $14,000 per year.   Is networking, contacts made, professors, etc.  better in the private schools?     Major undecided but most likely business or liberal arts😕.  He is really struggling with decision as no school jumped out as being “the one”.  Thanks in advance.

In looking at your son's situation, ordinarily I would say go the schools with the most tradition and history and best reputation. Which in his case , would be UW Madison or University of Minnesota. There is value in the quality of students and alumni base. However, he has expressed reservations due to size of the school. So those are out.

Marquette , DePaul and Loyola will likely be a much better experience than UWW or UWM. Primarily because his odds of making quality lifelong friends are amplified at the private schools. Also the private schools have some national  name recognition and respect. If your family can afford the private schools then by all means go for them over the second tier state schools. However, if  money is a big issue, the private schools are not worth the premium. In the more economically  focused case , I would recommend two years at a community college to find a direction, and then go to the state schools which will minimize the cost. If it came down to UWW versus UWM, I would go with UWW in that the school spirit etc there would likely lead to more meaningful friendships than the commuter school orientation of UWM.

No matter where he goes, he must maximize grades and position himself to do well on applicable grad school entrance exams. While at the same investing time in building relationships.

[WarriorFan]

From my experience with my oldest son, I'd have rather he waited a year and worked at Starbucks or something like that while figuring out that he's got a high school education and working the same job as people with psychology and sociology history and other useless degrees. Then when he figures that out he would get a degree that leads to a job - like PT or Nursing or Engineering.

Now, after almost 3 years working towards a degree he's finally realized won't get him a job, we're looking at a transfer to engineering and having serious discussions about maximizing "returns" on the educational expenses. 

Sorry if I've offended those with sociology and history and psychology degrees.  My experience is that those folks who are "amazing" for their intellect and personality got good jobs anyway, and those who are "average" struggled, or don't get paid as much as their counterparts in Nursing or PT or Engineering etc. 

[muwarrior69]

I showed them! I married a Marquette girl and we have extra-extraordinary children! Damn adorable grandkids, too!!!

After I graduated and came back home I joined the Princeton Junction & Back theatre group. Many of the members were Princeton undergrads. During rehearsals many of the Princeton students would bring their text books and study. Many of the text books were exactly the same as the ones we used at Marquette and thought, Wow, I got a Princeton education at MU.

[dgies9156]

Where one gets and undergrad degree matters. It really does.

I have a degree in Journalism. Worked for newspapers and magazines for awhile before heading to business school and obtaining and MBA. Received my MBA in 2.75 years even though I had not taken a STEM-type class since I was a junior in high school.

Morale: The academic discipline required by the Jesuits to be graduated from Marquette changed me. It made me inquisitive, intrigued by a wide variety of things and really helped make me what we now call a "life long learner." I'm amazed at what I still retain, years later, from even obscure classes back in the day at MU.

That said, I'm an outspoken critic of what's happened to MU tuition in the years since I was graduated. The cost of an MU education, no matter how valuable the experience might be, is out of line. It's like healthcare in that third-party providers pick up so much of the cost that the financial geeks just pass through whatever increase they want.

I'll note that Marquette isn't for everybody (even without absurd costs). College is an experience that should be savored. For some, the best option is that tech school over in Madison. For others, it might be a smaller state school. A school might have a program that has a particularly attractive to a student. My children both found Southern Illinois University -- Carbondale optimal for their needs. My son liked it so much, he's talked about living in Southern Illinois!

[warriorchick]

My wife is a counselor at a community college. She’s worked there for 12 years and I agree with this statement. Save the money and worry if a kid is undecided, go to a community college, figure things out. I think some kids need that adjustment period between high school and college to figure things out, and can still go then get the full college experience at half the price.

I agree with this in principle, but  I would be interested to now often this actually happens.  My kids had tons of friends from high school who said they were going to do this and started out at community college, but my rough estimate is that at this point, 8-10 years later, fewer than half of them have bachelor's degrees, and this includes kids that were honor students.  I think most of them started out with the best of intentions, but chose classes too randomly, started working more at their part-time jobs and taking fewer classes each semester, various life situations got in the way, etc.

It's way easier to stay focused if you have a definite, 4-year plan, and frankly, the cost does act as an incentive to stay on task.  I agree that if your kid has no idea what he wants to do, and is not a particularly motivated student, enrolling him him in an expensive university is probably not the best idea.  But I would stay on that kid and make sure that every semester he is taking worthwhile classes and is actively working towards an educational goal.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I agree with this in principle, but  I would be interested to now often this actually happens.  My kids had tons of friends from high school who said they were going to do this and started out at community college, but my rough estimate is that at this point, 8-10 years later, fewer than half of them have bachelor's degrees, and this includes kids that were honor students.  I think most of them started out with the best of intentions, but chose classes too randomly, started working more at their part-time jobs and taking fewer classes each semester, various life situations got in the way, etc.

This is my anecdotal experience as well.  And I would add that a number of my kids classmates headed off to a four year school with no idea what they wanted to do, or changed majors sometimes multiple times while they were in school, and are doing great now. 

I think it would be better to go to a good, regional comprehensive four year school instead.  A Whitewater, NIU or something similar I think is better set up for "finding yourself" and sticking with it than most two year schools. 

[JWags85]

Sorry if I've offended those with sociology and history and psychology degrees.  My experience is that those folks who are "amazing" for their intellect and personality got good jobs anyway, and those who are "average" struggled, or don't get paid as much as their counterparts in Nursing or PT or Engineering etc.

I was a Psych major and have since advised against/recommended otherwise to any younger student I’ve talked to, unless they want to be an actual psychologist/psychiatrist. I was a Psych major, minored in Finance, had an intense interest in Behavioral Finance and worked on a joint paper/study with a Finance professor and Business Psych expert. Want to know how many people in finance saw past “Psych Major” to the other portions...ZERO.

I learned a ton, don’t regret it at all from a knowledge gained standpoint and really think it helped me with how I approach and process emotions and interactions...but I’d say at least half of my classes within my major were kids that had no viable plan within Psych, they just thought it was “cool”. And that’s reflected in job opportunities.  If it’s an interest, pick up a minor while attached to a more substantial major