Our Future/MUBB

[willie warrior]

There's no fixing needed. Being a recruiter is part of being a college basketball coach. I don't care if a coach gets it done with recruiting or in game coaching, Wojo's results are miles better than Deane's.

I also think most here overestimate Wojo's recruiting abilities and underestimate his in game coaching abilities.

Shirley...you cant be serious. His in game coaching abilities are....wait for it...mediocre.

[Elonsmusk]

There's no fixing needed. Being a recruiter is part of being a college basketball coach. I don't care if a coach gets it done with recruiting or in game coaching, Wojo's results are miles better than Deane's.

I also think most here overestimate Wojo's recruiting abilities and underestimate his in game coaching abilities.

Except they're not. 

However, thanks for the clarification that recruiting is part of being a college basketball coach.  So is in-game coaching.  And if you can't coach, you sure AF better be able to recruit at a high level. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Except they're not. 

However, thanks for the clarification that recruiting is part of being a college basketball coach.  So is in-game coaching.  And if you can't coach, you sure AF better be able to recruit at a high level. 

Wojo has a slightly worse overall record, but that was in the CUSA which you pretty much said was a worse conference.  Deane has one more NCAA win in what would have likely been one less appearance.

But Buzz left much less talent for Wojo than O'Neal did for Deane.  And the trendlines showed where Deane was heading.

Another poor take from Elon in a week full of them.

[Herman Cain]

Majerus did a solid job as a head coach for everyone but MU. I'm not sure he bailed out as much as he was chased out.

Mike Deane had a "winning career" at MU for 4 years (with KO's players) before bottoming out. After that, he finished sub .500 in 9 out of 12 seasons, with 2 of those 3 winning seasons being 15-14 and 16-14. Wojo has already proven himself to be a much better coach than Deane, not even close.

Don't necessarily want to go down the same roads we have traveled before . However, Wojo had Buzz players. In fact 3 of them started most of the season in 2016-17. He also had two players from Buzz who made the NBA.

Elonsmusk can provide the details in case you forgot.

[5DollarPitcher]

You cannot say Wojo has made the NCAAs 3 of 4 years.

To be fair.  This is a very meh accomplishment in and of itself.  Throw in some NCAAT wins or a Big East Title (tourney or reg season), and I'd be impressed.  On its own... MEH!

[Elonsmusk]

Wojo has a slightly worse overall record, but that was in the CUSA which you pretty much said was a worse conference.  Deane has one more NCAA win in what would have likely been one less appearance.

But Buzz left much less talent for Wojo than O'Neal did for Deane.  And the trendlines showed where Deane was heading.

Another poor take from Elon in a week full of them.

Doesn't matter what you inherit if you don't know how to coach or utilize what was left.  Recruiting to C-USA, the Old Gym, and when MU was rarely on TV certainly was harder than all of the luxuries Wojo has had at his disposal.

The fact we are even debating the performance of Wojo against Mike F'in Deane speaks volumes.

[Galway Eagle]

Don't necessarily want to go down the same roads we have traveled before . However, Wojo had Buzz players. In fact 3 of them started in the NCAA game. He also had two players from Buzz who made the NBA.

Elonsmusk can provide the details in case you forgot.

Bull $hit Juan was the only one who started and he was not getting a lot of minutes for the most part.

And as far as making the NBA it's almost like players get better with age! Crazy concept right?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Don't necessarily want to go down the same roads we have traveled before . However, Wojo had Buzz players. In fact 3 of them started in the NCAA game. He also had two players from Buzz who made the NBA.

Elonsmusk can provide the details in case you forgot.

No they didn't. Only 1 Buzz era player was a starter in that game. The starters were Howard, Rowsey, Duane, Sammy, and Heldt. But I do think it is telling that those three's college ceiling was to be the 3rd, 4th, and 8th best players on a team that earned a 10 seed.

Any objective observer would tell you that Buzz handed Wojo a worse roster than what KO handed Deane. Any objective observer would also tell you that KO handed Deane a worse program than what Buzz handed Wojo.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Shirley...you cant be serious. His in game coaching abilities are....wait for it...mediocre.

Not what the data indicates. Some of the best indicators of in game coaching are records in close games, OT games as well as efficiency numbers on out of timeout plays (including defending out of a timeout). Wojo's numbers in these areas are actually very good compared to other coaches.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Except they're not. 

However, thanks for the clarification that recruiting is part of being a college basketball coach.  So is in-game coaching.  And if you can't coach, you sure AF better be able to recruit at a high level.

I don't think I ever said or suggested that in game coaching isn't part of being a coach. Deane got his results with great Xs and Os and terrible recruiting. Wojo got his results with good recruiting and good Xs and Os. So far, Wojo's results have been better.

The fact we are even debating the performance of Wojo against Mike F'in Deane speaks volumes.

Any idiot can debate anything. Doesn't mean there's any legitimacy to their argument.

[Viper]

This is a really good post that forces folks to do some thinking.

The two best comps I can think of are fellow Dookies.

TOMMY AMAKER: Starting PG and captain at Duke but not good enough for the NBA; 9 years as a college assistant, all at Duke; got his first head-coaching job at a Big East school, Seton Hall.

CHRIS COLLINS: Starting PG and captain at Duke but not good enough for the NBA; 14 years as a college assistant, the last 12 at Duke; got his first head-coaching job at a Big 14 school, Northwestern.

Wojo has performed consistently better than either of them did through the first 6 seasons, with more NCAA tourney appearances than both of them combined (assuming one this past year). He also came into a much better situation than either of them did.

Amaker does get points for taking Seton Hall to the Sweet 16 in his 3rd year but otherwise failed to make the NCAA tournament either at SH or in 6 years at Michigan; he often struggled to even produce winning records.

Collins got Northwestern its first NCAA berth ever, and even won a tourney game, but otherwise has had 5 losing seasons in 7 years, including 8-22 this past season.

Otherwise, Crean is the closest comparison I can think of.

Assistant for 12 years, albeit at several different schools. Assistant at a blueblood (or near-BB, depending upon how one describes Michigan State) for 4 years. Marquette was his first head-coaching job - he had never even been a HC at the middle-school level before that.

The program he took over was in worse shape than the one Wojo took over by just about any measure, but their coaching career paths were similar.

The Scoopers who have described Wojo as "Crean without Wade" ... that's as apt a comparison as I can think of.

You think the MU Wojo took over was in better shape than what Crean had coming in? Not so sure. Both took on garbage piles, but Buzz left Wojo with a special kind of stink. However, I’d say both coaches are comparable. Yeah, TC had the Final4, but he also followed that with back-to-back NIT bids. Wojo, 2 NCAA, 1projected NCAA and 1 NIT in 6 seasons to date...so I do see where both are comparable. Going forward, I’m projecting MU a NCAA 10-seed (w/DJ) or thereabouts in ‘20/21. Thinking beyond next season gives me a headache. 😀

[Herman Cain]

No they didn't. Only 1 Buzz era player was a starter in that game. The starters were Howard, Rowsey, Duane, Sammy, and Heldt. But I do think it is telling that those three's college ceiling was to be the 3rd, 4th, and 8th best players on a team that earned a 10 seed.

Any objective observer would tell you that Buzz handed Wojo a worse roster than what KO handed Deane. Any objective observer would also tell you that KO handed Deane a worse program than what Buzz handed Wojo.

Luke,JJJ, Duane were all key players for Wojo throughout their time at MU. Deonte and Juan made the NBA and Dawson made the G League ( second best league in the world) for the last three years. So there was plenty of talent available. Give Deane that talent and he would have done much better than Wojo.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Luke,JJJ, Duane were all key players for Wojo throughout their time at MU. Deonte and Juan made the NBA and Dawson made the G League ( second best league in the world) for the last three years. So there was plenty of talent available. Give Deane that talent and he would have done much better than Wojo.

If you are saying Deane would have had a better first three years than Wojo did, then I agree. I think Deane was the better Xs and Os coach. But he would have flamed out by year 4 when his recruiting efforts came up empty.

If you are saying that Wojo's first roster was better than Deane's first roster, you're crazy. Wojo's team was coming off missing the NIT and lost 5/6 of its top players (that doesn't even count Deonte leaving after his mother's death). Deane's team was coming off a Sweet 16 and had Tony Miller, Roney Eford, Amal McCaskill, Anthony Pieper, Faisal Abraham, and Chris Crawford all returning

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

If you are saying Deane would have had a better first three years than Wojo did, then I agree. I think Deane was the better Xs and Os coach. But he would have flamed out by year 4 when his recruiting efforts came up empty.

If you are saying that Wojo's first roster was better than Deane's first roster, you're crazy. Wojo's team was coming off missing the NIT and lost 5/6 of its top players (that doesn't even count Deonte leaving after his mother's death). Deane's team was coming off a Sweet 16 and had Tony Miller, Roney Eford, Amal McCaskill, Anthony Pieper, Faisal Abraham, and Chris Crawford all returning

And Hutchins coming in as a freshman.

[willie warrior]

Not what the data indicates. Some of the best indicators of in game coaching are records in close games, OT games as well as efficiency numbers on out of timeout plays (including defending out of a timeout). Wojo's numbers in these areas are actually very good compared to other coaches.

This is opinion. What are the facts?

[#UnleashSean]

Deane was coaching in conference that pale in comparison to what Wojo coaches in.

It's amazing how much you post in the absence of chicos.

Could you provide me with the $200 from the bet we had?

[Elonsmusk]

I don't think I ever said or suggested that in game coaching isn't part of being a coach. Deane got his results with great Xs and Os and terrible recruiting. Wojo got his results with good recruiting and good Xs and Os. So far, Wojo's results have been better.

Any idiot can debate anything. Doesn't mean there's any legitimacy to their argument.

And I don't think I ever said or suggested that recruiting isn't part of being a coach.  You chose to interject that recruiting was part of being a coach (Duh.)

Regarding the any idiot can debate anything?  I agree.  Just like there wasn't any legitimacy to the Golden Power Point and it actually actualizing.  Year 7 and we are scrambling to fill a roster with transfers, and project for the bottom half of the Big East..coming on the heels of two epic end of season collapses with "all of his guys." 

But hey, carry on.  The handful of posters here who dug in and said Wojo was the goods - there's been little legitimacy to their arguments for 6 years.

[wadesworld]

OK... Sweet Sixteen 3 of the 10 years prior to Wojo (note I never said immediately prior to Wojo, anyway - reading is hard!!)

Again, my point stands - you..... decided to take a bath in semantics because you have no real comeback.

And my point stands.  We've been to the Sweet 16 5 times in the last 40 years and beyond it twice in the last 40 years.  But if Wojo gets to one it's embarrassing that we actually have to celebrate that.

 

[real chili 83]

I voted for option 6:

JB gets released from Scoop prison camp and is immediately hired by Wojo as director of stats, #ft’snomatta, AAU scouting, and cheerleader development.  17 NC’s in a row, and JB retires..... as a single man and goes into acting playing the part of The Most Interesting Man in The World in Schmidt Beer commercials.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This is opinion. What are the facts?

I literally gave you facts in the post you quoted

[Newsdreams]

I literally gave you facts in the post you quoted

Mazo's burgers won't look at facts

[Newsdreams]

Luke,JJJ, Duane were all key players for Wojo throughout their time at MU. Deonte and Juan made the NBA and Dawson made the G League ( second best league in the world) for the last three years. So there was plenty of talent available. Give Deane that talent and he would have done much better than Wojo.

LoL the G League might be about the 4th best league in the world. The G league is garbage basketball that is why the salaries suck. But of course we have the 9-9-9 clown....

[WarriorDad]

It's amazing how much you post in the absence of chicos.

Could you provide me with the $200 from the bet we had?

I have increased my messages since COVID.  There is no denying that.  Home, less to do, allowed to do less by the people in charge, no sports to watch, friends and family harder to see.  That will start to change as life slowly begins to normalize.  Some of the toxicity here isn’t good for the soul anyway.

I didn’t make a bet with you and therefore owe you nothing.  Take it up with him.  A moderator in one of the message subjects said he was due a while back from suspension. Reach out to him.  Good luck.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And I don't think I ever said or suggested that recruiting isn't part of being a coach.  You chose to interject that recruiting was part of being a coach (Duh.)

Regarding the any idiot can debate anything?  I agree.  Just like there wasn't any legitimacy to the Golden Power Point and it actually actualizing.  Year 7 and we are scrambling to fill a roster with transfers, and project for the bottom half of the Big East..coming on the heels of two epic end of season collapses with "all of his guys." 

But hey, carry on.  The handful of posters here who dug in and said Wojo was the goods - there's been little legitimacy to their arguments for 6 years.

You erroneously crossed out coach and replaced it with recruiter. I assumed you were confused.

The rest of you post might make more sense if there was more than 2  or 3 posters (I'm counting all of Chicos' user names as one  ) on this site who have actually argued that "Wojo has the goods." From what I've seen, there are a significant few way off in NoJo land, next to nobody in Projo town, and a large amount of people in middle who can recognize that we have had is good but not great and wish it would be better. The problem you have is that you assume anyone who doesn't agree with you must be a Wojo worshiper. Not everything is binary.

[Eye]

But that doesn't tie back with your 100 wins over 5 years.  It's fine to suggest in any given year 128 teams do it or 44 do it in a P6 league.  Now do the math for teams that do it over a 5 year period and it isn't 40th percentile.  Your data answers a question or statement you didn't pose.

The point is someone thought winning 20 games is a big deal. It's not. And hasn't been for a while.