Our Future/MUBB

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I appreciate your optimism . However , I don’t think Wojo is Rick Majerus  version 2.0. Rick did a solid job at MU and was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and was smart enough to bail out to The Bucks when he did. I think Wojo is Mike Deane Version 2.0 and will have a winning career for a long time without being outstanding.

Majerus did a solid job as a head coach for everyone but MU. I'm not sure he bailed out as much as he was chased out.

Mike Deane had a "winning career" at MU for 4 years (with KO's players) before bottoming out. After that, he finished sub .500 in 9 out of 12 seasons, with 2 of those 3 winning seasons being 15-14 and 16-14. Wojo has already proven himself to be a much better coach than Deane, not even close.

[MU82]

Majerus did a solid job as a head coach for everyone but MU. I'm not sure he bailed out as much as he was chased out.

Mike Deane had a "winning career" at MU for 4 years (with KO's players) before bottoming out. After that, he finished sub .500 in 9 out of 12 seasons, with 2 of those 3 winning seasons being 15-14 and 16-14. Wojo has already proven himself to be a much better coach than Deane, not even close.

Your last sentence is obvious to anybody who knows anything about basketball and who wants to take even 2 minutes to consider actual facts, but you're wasting your breath, TAMU.

The Wojo-is-the-worst-ever crowd love the Deane comparison; they get a kick out of how it makes folks like you and me respond.

[Uncle Rico]

The Mike Deane revisionist history is something. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Wojo is Crean without Wade.

[GoldenWarrior11]

I think it is tremendously difficult to project Wojo, only because there are so few present comparative circumstances to relate to.  Wojo was a first-time head coach, who was a long-time assistant at a blue blood, that took over a top-30 perceived program, which also required a rebuild upon hiring. 

Many, but not all, elite-level head coaches had previous stops as a head coach in low(er) level leagues; this involves Coach K (Army), Calipari (UMass), Self (Oral Roberts), Wright (Hofstra) and Pitino (Boston), among others.  A number of elite-level head coaches were assistants at their their present schools; this involves Boeheim (Syracuse), Few (Gonzaga), Williams (UNC) and Izzo (MSU), among a few others.   Even high-level head coaches - Buzz (New Orleans), Mack (Xavier), Anderson (UAB), Cronin (Murray State), Howland (N. Arizona), S. Miller (Xavier), Pearl (S. Indiana), R. Barnes (George Mason), Altman (Marshall), among others, had previous HC experience at a lower level before rising the ranks.  Obviously, there has been a recent trend in hiring head coaches with little-to-zero college coaching (head or assistant) in the past several years (Ewing, Mullin, Stackhouse, Hardaway, Avery Johnson, Mark Price, etc.) - but that clearly does not relate to Wojo.

In circumstances similar to Wojo, Roy Williams is one (albeit, he took over a legitimate blue blood in Kansas).  He was a long-time assistant at UNC (blue blood), took over for sanction-heavy KU (after Larry Brown), and was the NCAA Runner-Up by his third year; somewhat similar, but also very different.  Izzo was a long-time assistant as well (before being elevated to HC at MSU), but he was not an outside hire (thus knew the program, players, etc.), and the program was in great condition as he came in; he was in a F4 by year four.  Even look at Crean - was an assistant at a top program (MSU), came into a program that needed more talent, but even he made a F4 by his 4th year.  Perhaps Mike Hopkins was/is a good comparison (long-time assistant at Syracuse, takes over Washington as a first-time HC)?  However, he is only in his third year as well (and UW wasn't making the tournament this year). 

Does anyone else have a good comparative projection for Wojo?  Obviously, the March success has not been there (yet).  I guess I am looking for high-level head coaches that had a tremendous gap between their hiring and eventual success, with a similar trajectory as Wojo did (assistant at elite program, first-time HC, taking over a rebuild position). 

[NCMUFan]

I have been a Wojo fan from the onset of his hire.  However, he is looking like a mediocre coach.  I think the Hauser brother transfers were a set back that revealed his coaching deficiencies.  With the Hausers, he probably could of got Marquette to a level of recruiting that could cover his coaching shortcomings.  In any case, I am a MU fan and wish the team the best.

[Badgerhater]

I attended MU during the Deane era.  Deane could game coach and his teams exceeded their talent level in many of his seasons.  But coaching requires recruiting and Deane often failed in that regard.  Wojo isn’t as extreme as Deane in either category—he is simply a mediocre 8-10 to 10-8 conference season coach.   


He is not bad enough to fire, but not good enough to want to keep him around.

[bilsu]

I think this years team without Carton and Perez is only a Georgetown away from last place. With them they are still in the bottom four. We all know freshmen have trouble competing in Big East. Having only John and Cain as returning front line players is going to end up being a disaster. Wojo is going to get a lot of heat (rightly so), but to me it is more about team building vs. coaching. Wojo should be kept if this years class is also a great class, which would be two great back to back classes. That equals team building to me. However, if he strikes out on this next class, I see no reason to keep him.

[5DollarPitcher]

We've advanced to the Sweet 16 five times in the last 40 years and beyond it twice in the last 40 years.  I'll gladly celebrate a Sweet 16.

Prior to Wojo, we reached the Sweet Sixteen 4 times in 10 years.  Let's not be disingenuous about the status of our program.  Compare Wojo to the tumult of the late 80s and early 90s if you must, but he is the one that took us back there after we had seemingly turned a corner.

[wadesworld]

Prior to Wojo, we reached the Sweet Sixteen 4 times in 10 years.  Let's not be disingenuous about the status of our program.  Compare Wojo to the tumult of the late 80s and early 90s if you must, but he is the one that took us back there after we had seemingly turned a corner.

We didn’t make the Sweet Sixteen 4 times in the decade leading up to Wojo. And we aren’t where we were in our worst periods in the 80s and 90s.

But sure that’s cool. We also made it beyond that once. So we shouldn’t celebrate what had been our 2nd best results in that past decade? Fair enough I guess. I’ll celebrate it, you can be unreasonable about it.

[5DollarPitcher]

We didn’t make the Sweet Sixteen 4 times in the decade leading up to Wojo. And we aren’t where we were in our worst periods in the 80s and 90s.

But sure that’s cool. We also made it beyond that once. So we shouldn’t celebrate what had been our 2nd best results in that past decade? Fair enough I guess. I’ll celebrate it, you can be unreasonable about it.

2002-2003 to 2012-2013?  Is this not a decade?  Or are we somehow splitting hairs about the semantics of the cutoff year because otherwise you'd be unable to have a point?

We made it beyond the Sweet Sixteen twice in that period (which I suppose is now not a decade....)

I've missed you PettyWorld

[jesmu84]

Is a program or its trend based on 5 years? 10? 20? 40?

What timeline determines a program's success?

Especially in a sport where a single player or a single coach can have an enormous impact

[wadesworld]

2002-2003 to 2012-2013?  Is this not a decade?  Or are we somehow splitting hairs about the semantics of the cutoff year because otherwise you'd be unable to have a point?

We made it beyond the Sweet Sixteen twice in that period (which I suppose is now not a decade....)

I've missed you PettyWorld

Wojo took over for the 2014-2015 season. So no. 2002-2003 was not part of the decade prior to Wojo taking over.

Math is hard.

[Elonsmusk]

Majerus did a solid job as a head coach for everyone but MU. I'm not sure he bailed out as much as he was chased out.

Mike Deane had a "winning career" at MU for 4 years (with KO's players) before bottoming out. After that, he finished sub .500 in 9 out of 12 seasons, with 2 of those 3 winning seasons being 15-14 and 16-14. Wojo has already proven himself to be a much better coach recruiter than Deane, not even close.

Fixed.  Deane was a better coach.  Wojo a better recruiter.  Though Deane was recruiting with the handicaps of Old Gym, C-USA, and only sporadic televised games.

As for our future, likely will be a repeat of years 2-6 of Wojo regime.  Good enough to not get fired, but highwater marks of NCAA and perhaps Round of 32s.

[5DollarPitcher]

Wojo took over for the 2014-2015 season. So no. 2002-2003 was not part of the decade prior to Wojo taking over.

Math is hard.

OK... Sweet Sixteen 3 of the 10 years prior to Wojo (note I never said immediately prior to Wojo, anyway - reading is hard!!)

Again, my point stands - you..... decided to take a bath in semantics because you have no real comeback.

[Galway Eagle]

As for our future, likely will be a repeat of years 2-6 of Wojo regime.  Good enough to not get fired, but highwater marks of NCAA and perhaps Round of 32s.

I think this sums up what I think the future will be. I'd hope we break lucky or something but he seems like he'll be another Mcdermott, Willard, Cooley. Always there never makes noise.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Fixed.  Deane was a better coach.  Wojo a better recruiter.  Though Deane was recruiting with the handicaps of Old Gym, C-USA, and only sporadic televised games.

As for our future, likely will be a repeat of years 2-6 of Wojo regime.  Good enough to not get fired, but highwater marks of NCAA and perhaps Round of 32s.

There's no fixing needed. Being a recruiter is part of being a college basketball coach. I don't care if a coach gets it done with recruiting or in game coaching, Wojo's results are miles better than Deane's.

I also think most here overestimate Wojo's recruiting abilities and underestimate his in game coaching abilities.

[MU82]

I think the Hauser brother transfers were a set back that revealed his coaching deficiencies.  With the Hausers, he probably could of got Marquette to a level of recruiting that could cover his coaching shortcomings.

Had the Hausers stayed and been willing to be good teammates, we would have been a significantly better team this past season. That's just obvious. Had even only Sam stayed we'd have been much better.

I also was extremely concerned that the negativity of that situation would hurt us badly from a recruiting standpoint. Then Wojo went out and signed a top-20 class and landed one of the best couple of transfers. So I really don't think it affected us much from a recruiting standpoint.

[Galway Eagle]

Had the Hausers stayed and been willing to be good teammates, we would have been a significantly better team this past season. That's just obvious. Had even only Sam stayed we'd have been much better.

I also was extremely concerned that the negativity of that situation would hurt us badly from a recruiting standpoint. Then Wojo went out and signed a top-20 class and landed one of the best couple of transfers. So I really don't think it affected us much from a recruiting standpoint.

Plus we would've seen wojos actual vision for the 2016 Recruiting class at least

[MU82]

I think it is tremendously difficult to project Wojo, only because there are so few present comparative circumstances to relate to.  Wojo was a first-time head coach, who was a long-time assistant at a blue blood, that took over a top-30 perceived program, which also required a rebuild upon hiring. 

Many, but not all, elite-level head coaches had previous stops as a head coach in low(er) level leagues; this involves Coach K (Army), Calipari (UMass), Self (Oral Roberts), Wright (Hofstra) and Pitino (Boston), among others.  A number of elite-level head coaches were assistants at their their present schools; this involves Boeheim (Syracuse), Few (Gonzaga), Williams (UNC) and Izzo (MSU), among a few others.   Even high-level head coaches - Buzz (New Orleans), Mack (Xavier), Anderson (UAB), Cronin (Murray State), Howland (N. Arizona), S. Miller (Xavier), Pearl (S. Indiana), R. Barnes (George Mason), Altman (Marshall), among others, had previous HC experience at a lower level before rising the ranks.  Obviously, there has been a recent trend in hiring head coaches with little-to-zero college coaching (head or assistant) in the past several years (Ewing, Mullin, Stackhouse, Hardaway, Avery Johnson, Mark Price, etc.) - but that clearly does not relate to Wojo.

In circumstances similar to Wojo, Roy Williams is one (albeit, he took over a legitimate blue blood in Kansas).  He was a long-time assistant at UNC (blue blood), took over for sanction-heavy KU (after Larry Brown), and was the NCAA Runner-Up by his third year; somewhat similar, but also very different.  Izzo was a long-time assistant as well (before being elevated to HC at MSU), but he was not an outside hire (thus knew the program, players, etc.), and the program was in great condition as he came in; he was in a F4 by year four.  Even look at Crean - was an assistant at a top program (MSU), came into a program that needed more talent, but even he made a F4 by his 4th year.  Perhaps Mike Hopkins was/is a good comparison (long-time assistant at Syracuse, takes over Washington as a first-time HC)?  However, he is only in his third year as well (and UW wasn't making the tournament this year). 

Does anyone else have a good comparative projection for Wojo?  Obviously, the March success has not been there (yet).  I guess I am looking for high-level head coaches that had a tremendous gap between their hiring and eventual success, with a similar trajectory as Wojo did (assistant at elite program, first-time HC, taking over a rebuild position).

This is a really good post that forces folks to do some thinking.

The two best comps I can think of are fellow Dookies.

TOMMY AMAKER: Starting PG and captain at Duke but not good enough for the NBA; 9 years as a college assistant, all at Duke; got his first head-coaching job at a Big East school, Seton Hall.

CHRIS COLLINS: Starting PG and captain at Duke but not good enough for the NBA; 14 years as a college assistant, the last 12 at Duke; got his first head-coaching job at a Big 14 school, Northwestern.

Wojo has performed consistently better than either of them did through the first 6 seasons, with more NCAA tourney appearances than both of them combined (assuming one this past year). He also came into a much better situation than either of them did.

Amaker does get points for taking Seton Hall to the Sweet 16 in his 3rd year but otherwise failed to make the NCAA tournament either at SH or in 6 years at Michigan; he often struggled to even produce winning records.

Collins got Northwestern its first NCAA berth ever, and even won a tourney game, but otherwise has had 5 losing seasons in 7 years, including 8-22 this past season.

Otherwise, Crean is the closest comparison I can think of.

Assistant for 12 years, albeit at several different schools. Assistant at a blueblood (or near-BB, depending upon how one describes Michigan State) for 4 years. Marquette was his first head-coaching job - he had never even been a HC at the middle-school level before that.

The program he took over was in worse shape than the one Wojo took over by just about any measure, but their coaching career paths were similar.

The Scoopers who have described Wojo as "Crean without Wade" ... that's as apt a comparison as I can think of.

[WarriorDad]

Prior to Wojo, we reached the Sweet Sixteen 4 times in 10 years.  Let's not be disingenuous about the status of our program.  Compare Wojo to the tumult of the late 80s and early 90s if you must, but he is the one that took us back there after we had seemingly turned a corner.

You are not doing it right.  You see, when reporting achievements here you are obligated to take the longer view here.  You cannot say Wojo has made the NCAAs 3 of 4 years, instead you have to say 3 in 6 years (or 3 in 7 including Coach Williams last year).

Therefore, the Sweet 16 four times in ten years really should be four times in the last 17 years, or five times in the last 25 years.  Panda and MUGURU can explain why this is done because it bewilders me.

[WarriorDad]

I'd love to be able to vote 1 or 2, but honesty compels me to report I voted for 3. And I'm generally an optimist.

And Wojo would probably win 100 games if he's at MU the next 5 years. But 20 wins a season is far from a big deal anymore. Over the last four full seasons with a full postseason, an average of 128 teams a year have won 20 games. In the top 6 leagues, over the last two full seasons with a full postseason, an average of 44 teams a year have won 20 games. So winning 20 games right now puts you at about the 40th percentile in a top 6 league.

But that doesn't tie back with your 100 wins over 5 years.  It's fine to suggest in any given year 128 teams do it or 44 do it in a P6 league.  Now do the math for teams that do it over a 5 year period and it isn't 40th percentile.  Your data answers a question or statement you didn't pose.

[WarriorDad]

Fixed.  Deane was a better coach.  Wojo a better recruiter.  Though Deane was recruiting with the handicaps of Old Gym, C-USA, and only sporadic televised games.

As for our future, likely will be a repeat of years 2-6 of Wojo regime.  Good enough to not get fired, but highwater marks of NCAA and perhaps Round of 32s.

Deane was coaching in conference that pale in comparison to what Wojo coaches in.

[willie warrior]

I don't forsee anything but frustration and mediocrity.  Wojo will do just enough to keep his job, but we will be nowhere near what the fans expect.  The admin will be happy because Wojo is bland and doesn't stir up trouble.  10-8 in conference will be the new norm and a S16 will be a cause for celebration.

Unfortynately, you are close. Sweet 16 is unattainable under Wojo

[willie warrior]

Prior to Wojo, we reached the Sweet Sixteen 4 times in 10 years.  Let's not be disingenuous about the status of our program.  Compare Wojo to the tumult of the late 80s and early 90s if you must, but he is the one that took us back there after we had seemingly turned a corner.

Just the facts mam.