MU Lacrosse Recruit loses scholly over racist Instagram post.

[Lennys Tap]

A teenager offering bad racial takes on social media is very much Iike Jesus.

I don’t think dgies was saying the teenager was like Jesus. The point was how would Jesus (and how should those who claim to be his followers) react to this teenager?

For Vogue (and others) the proper reaction is judgement, condemnation and avoidance. For dgies, it’s education, forgiveness and inclusion.

I’m with brother dgies on this one. As I see it, Jesus would be too.

[Galway Eagle]

I don’t think dgies was saying the teenager was like Jesus. The point was how would Jesus (and how should those who claim to be his followers) react to this teenager?

For Vogue (and others) the proper reaction is judgement, condemnation and avoidance. For dgies, it’s education, forgiveness and inclusion.

I’m with brother dgies on this one. As I see it, Jesus would be too.

While you are likely right MU has to maintain good PR. Between the hiring and firing of a lesbian (provost?), the rape/sexual assult bungling, the assata Shakur mural, and the Law Professor Vs Grad student/TA issue they haven't been great with the whole PR thing. Being in higher education means sometimes you don't have the chance to do everything Jesus would've done and this is one of those times.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I don’t think dgies was saying the teenager was like Jesus. The point was how would Jesus (and how should those who claim to be his followers) react to this teenager?

For Vogue (and others) the proper reaction is judgement, condemnation and avoidance. For dgies, it’s education, forgiveness and inclusion.

I’m with brother dgies on this one. As I see it, Jesus would be too.

Wasn't going to happen for a number of reasons. 

[Pakuni]

For Vogue (and others) the proper reaction is judgement, condemnation and avoidance. For dgies, it’s education, forgiveness and inclusion.

I’m with brother dgies on this one. As I see it, Jesus would be too.

What about the education and inclusion of students who'd rather not be required to live, attend classes with and play team sports with a person who's unapologetically voiced racist sentiments?
Should Marquette ignore their needs in an effort to offer forgiveness and redemption to someone who's asked for neither?
Is the university's mission of providing a welcoming environment to ALL students somehow less important?

And where exactly does your theory on the university's need to extend forgiveness end?

[Jockey]

I don’t think dgies was saying the teenager was like Jesus. The point was how would Jesus (and how should those who claim to be his followers) react to this teenager?

For Vogue (and others) the proper reaction is judgement, condemnation and avoidance. For dgies, it’s education, forgiveness and inclusion.

I’m with brother dgies on this one. As I see it, Jesus would be too.

I am with you, Lenny, but only partially.

Any criminal who serves his mandated time should be able to re-start his life with a clean slate. I believe the same for this girl, even though her actions were morally reprehensible rather than criminal.

Where do we differ? She has done nothing to atone for her actions. She issued a statement which only seemed to double down on her original comments as well as earlier reported comments. Before everything is OK again, she needs to atone for her racist words. Issue a real apology. Perform service in the community to show she means what she says in her apology.

I say these things ONLY in terms of her receiving a scholarship from MU. She can do what she wants in life and be whatever kind of racist creep she wants - but if she wants the privilege of attending MU, there are certain basic actions she has to take to wipe the slate clean.

[MU82]

Yeah, I am the last one to claim expertise on heaven and hell, but ... if you commit a sin and, rather than repent, you just keep repeating the sin, Jesus might "love" you because he loves everybody from jaywalkers to serial killers, but you probably ain't going to the place with the clouds and wings and halos.

Willing to be corrected on any of the above.

In this case, Marquette of course is heaven. No comment on whether she'll be condemned to Madison or South Bend.

We Are Marquette!

[WarriorDad]

Your post incorrectly implies that there aren't any racists at Marquette. Every single poster here knew someone or some people, or perhaps several people that were racists at MU. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. Some just hide it better. I'm not even going to take the time to explain the varied specifics of Texas. Clearly you haven't spent much or any time there.

Where did my post say or imply there are no racists at Marquette?    I have spent far too many days in Texas for my liking.  Between San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Midland Odessa, El Paso, Austin and the various work projects over the years.  I bet in some years I spent close to 2 or 3 months a year in Texas.

[Billy Hoyle]

Yeah, I am the last one to claim expertise on heaven and hell, but ... if you commit a sin and, rather than repent, you just keep repeating the sin, Jesus might "love" you because he loves everybody from jaywalkers to serial killers, but you probably ain't going to the place with the clouds and wings and halos.

Willing to be corrected on any of the above.

In this case, Marquette of course is heaven. No comment on whether she'll be condemned to Madison or South Bend.

We Are Marquette!

Does Liberty have Women's Lacrosse? She would probably be welcomed with open arms and full scholarship there.

[Galway Eagle]

Does Liberty have Women's Lacrosse? She would probably be welcomed with open arms and full scholarship there.

I like the way you think.

Dude she should've stayed silent unless her plan is to play at Liberty

And no it doesn't seem they do. Sure some super intense evangelical school has a D2 or D3 team

[tower912]

Hillsdale?

[Lennys Tap]

What about the education and inclusion of students who'd rather not be required to live, attend classes with and play team sports with a person who's unapologetically voiced racist sentiments?
Should Marquette ignore their needs in an effort to offer forgiveness and redemption to someone who's asked for neither?
Is the university's mission of providing a welcoming environment to ALL students somehow less important?

And where exactly does your theory on the university's need to extend forgiveness end?

I’m old and don’t understand or appreciate the concept that college should be a “safe space” experience. Protecting students from other students, teachers, guest speakers, etc., who espouse ideas that most of the student body find toxic is antithetical to what I think college should be about.

On my wing in Schroeder we had kids from cities, suburbs and small towns. Some had gone to boarding schools, some had never left their hometowns until Mom and Dad dropped them off on the campus. We all arrived with our biases and suspicions, typical know it all 17 and 18 year olds. Suspicions and biases turned to understanding and friendships fairly quickly. One learns a lot living with people with different backgrounds and biases.

Playing sports is a learning experience too. When I was at MU the basketball team had both inner city black kids and small town Wisconsin white kids on the roster. And some who literally fought with one another as freshmen later became friends for life.

I’m aware that social media makes this more complicated. People in my era didn’t arrive on campus with a record of stupid or even racist statements they might have made. Where does my “theory” on the university’s need to extend forgiveness end? It doesn’t end. That doesn’t mean that a university can’t have rules and consequences for breaking them. Forgiveness doesn’t mean no consequences. But it doesn’t mean zero tolerance, either.

Just my opinion, but I think this is all about PR for the school. I would have preferred that her future teammates and classmates decide whether these were the rants of an inexperienced teenager or the intractable opinions of an avowed racist. Either way it could have been a valuable learning experience.

[Hards Alumni]

I’m old and don’t understand or appreciate the concept that college should be a “safe space” experience. Protecting students from other students, teachers, guest speakers, etc., who espouse ideas that most of the student body find toxic is antithetical to what I think college should be about.

On my wing in Schroeder we had kids from cities, suburbs and small towns. Some had gone to boarding schools, some had never left their hometowns until Mom and Dad dropped them off on the campus. We all arrived with our biases and suspicions, typical know it all 17 and 18 year olds. Suspicions and biases turned to understanding and friendships fairly quickly. One learns a lot living with people with different backgrounds and biases.

Playing sports is a learning experience too. When I was at MU the basketball team had both inner city black kids and small town Wisconsin white kids on the roster. And some who literally fought with one another as freshmen later became friends for life.

I’m aware that social media makes this more complicated. People in my era didn’t arrive on campus with a record of stupid or even racist statements they might have made. Where does my “theory” on the university’s need to extend forgiveness end? It doesn’t end. That doesn’t mean that a university can’t have rules and consequences for breaking them. Forgiveness doesn’t mean no consequences. But it doesn’t mean zero tolerance, either.

Just my opinion, but I think this is all about PR for the school. I would have preferred that her future teammates and classmates decide whether these were the rants of an inexperienced teenager or the intractable opinions of an avowed racist. Either way it could have been a valuable learning experience.

She either meant it, or she didn't.  Her scholly was yanked.  You can't ask other girls to play on a team with her.  It isn't their job to teach her to not have bigoted ideas.  If the school allowed her to keep the scholarship, they'd be tacitly approving racism.

I don't think they said she can't come to school and learn, she'd just have to pay her own way.

And then instead of saying her thoughts were misguided, she doubled down like a child. 

[warriorchick]

She either meant it, or she didn't.  Her scholly was yanked.  You can't ask other girls to play on a team with her.  It isn't their job to teach her to not have bigoted ideas.  If the school allowed her to keep the scholarship, they'd be tacitly approving racism.

I don't think they said she can't come to school and learn, she'd just have to pay her own way.

And then instead of saying her thoughts were misguided, she doubled down like a child.

Wrong.  Her acceptance as a student was rescinded as well.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

On my wing in Schroeder we had kids from cities, suburbs and small towns. Some had gone to boarding schools, some had never left their hometowns until Mom and Dad dropped them off on the campus. We all arrived with our biases and suspicions, typical know it all 17 and 18 year olds. Suspicions and biases turned to understanding and friendships fairly quickly. One learns a lot living with people with different backgrounds and biases.

If you think your experience is anything remotely similar to what many students of color face on college campuses now, you have a lot to learn.  I have a lot to learn.  The more I hear of their experiences, the dumber and more naive I feel.

[real chili 83]

Lots of Always and Nevers in this thread.  Shallow thinking.

Dgies and Sultan with the spot on points today.

ROCK ON MILWAUKEE!!!

[Lennys Tap]

If you think your experience is anything remotely similar to what many students of color face on college campuses now, you have a lot to learn.  I have a lot to learn.  The more I hear of their experiences, the dumber and more naive I feel.

Fluff

I’ll be the first to admit that times change and I have a lot to learn. I’m sure I’ll never catch up.

But I don’t think that my experiences (or yours) are invalid because you and I have a lot to learn. So do 18-22 year old students. So do their teachers and school administrators. I don’t think college should be about students being comfortable or unchallenged. I think we short change our young people if that’s our goal.

[Pakuni]

I’m old and don’t understand or appreciate the concept that college should be a “safe space” experience. Protecting students from other students, teachers, guest speakers, etc., who espouse ideas that most of the student body find toxic is antithetical to what I think college should be about.

Respect your feelings Lenny, but disagree very much with you passing this off as just another point of view we all should be exposed to.
She didn't express an unpopular view on a policy issue or post photos of herself wearing a MAGA cap. She justified the murder of a man at the hands of police because another man of the same race kneeled during the national anthem nearly four years ago. And then when given a chance to walk it back, she doubled down.
How does anyone on the Marquette campus benefit from that viewpoint being there?
How does a young black man or woman feel about Marquette University when it not only welcomes that got kind of viewpoint, but it awards a scholarship to someone with that viewpont?

I'm all for college kids being exposed to all different kinds of viewpoints on the issues of the day, presented and debated in a, preferably, respectful manner. But that's not what this is about.

Let her future classmates decide? Like, they're going to vote her off the island? Not sure public referenda is the best way to handle admissions and discipline.

[LloydsLegs]

👏👏👏👏

[Lennys Tap]

Respect your feelings Lenny, but disagree very much with you passing this off as just another point of view we all should be exposed to.
She didn't express an unpopular view on a policy issue or post photos of herself wearing a MAGA cap. She justified the murder of a man at the hands of police because another man of the same race kneeled during the national anthem nearly four years ago. And then when given a chance to walk it back, she doubled down.
How does anyone on the Marquette campus benefit from that viewpoint being there?
How does a young black man or woman feel about Marquette University when it not only welcomes that got kind of viewpoint, but it awards a scholarship to someone with that viewpont?

I'm all for college kids being exposed to all different kinds of viewpoints on the issues of the day, presented and debated in a, preferably, respectful manner. But that's not what this is about.

Let her future classmates decide? Like, they're going to vote her off the island? Not sure public referenda is the best way to handle admissions and discipline.

Pakuni

I likewise respect your POV. I think what this young lady posted was reprehensible. But I think her age/limited life experiences mitigates the situation. My guess is she’s parroting a wrongheaded world view held by a parent, relative, friend, etc.

Should Marquette judge her, humiliate her and give her (and whoever “mentors” her) permanent victim status or should MU loudly and clearly voice their disagreement with her statements while honoring its commitment? I would choose the latter. If she’s a bad apple, she’ll probably say no to MU because of the reprimand. If she elect to come to MU, she’ll have to prove herself to some very suspicious teammates. Chance for growth and learning - and if she throws it away it’s on her.

[shoothoops]

Racism is not okay, at any age. It's not okay in grade school, not okay in high school, not okay in college, not okay in young adulthood, not okay in middle age, not okay as a young or older senior. It's never okay. It isn't a different viewpoint. It's an unacceptable viewpoint anywhere, any time.

[Lennys Tap]

Racism is not okay, at any age. It's not okay in grade school, not okay in high school, not okay in college, not okay in young adulthood, not okay in middle age, not okay as a young or older senior. It's never okay. It isn't a different viewpoint. It's an unacceptable viewpoint anywhere, any time.

Who said it was OK? Do words like reprehensible and ignorant mean OK to you?

[real chili 83]

Racism is not okay, at any age. It's not okay in grade school, not okay in high school, not okay in college, not okay in young adulthood, not okay in middle age, not okay as a young or older senior. It's never okay. It isn't a different viewpoint. It's an unacceptable viewpoint anywhere, any time.

Always and never

[wadesworld]

Actions have consequences. A life lesson she’s hopefully learning.

[Galway Eagle]

Always and never

Is your point that it's shallow thinking to believe racism is never ok?

[Galway Eagle]

Pakuni

I likewise respect your POV. I think what this young lady posted was reprehensible. But I think her age/limited life experiences mitigates the situation. My guess is she’s parroting a wrongheaded world view held by a parent, relative, friend, etc.

Should Marquette judge her, humiliate her and give her (and whoever “mentors” her) permanent victim status or should MU loudly and clearly voice their disagreement with her statements while honoring its commitment? I would choose the latter. If she’s a bad apple, she’ll probably say no to MU because of the reprimand. If she elect to come to MU, she’ll have to prove herself to some very suspicious teammates. Chance for growth and learning - and if she throws it away it’s on her.

I can get behind the not a safe space thinking. I can get behind MU could've lived up to a Christian teaching of forgiveness and growth. You lost me when you were still going to give her a scholarship to the lacrosse team. There's no reason to reward filthy behavior and I cannot figure out a reasoning for that one.