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Poll

Who is the second best coach in the Big East?

Mike Anderson
7 (5.2%)
Ed Cooley
43 (31.9%)
Patrick Ewing
0 (0%)
Dan Hurley
5 (3.7%)
LaVall Jordan
1 (0.7%)
Dave Leitao
1 (0.7%)
Greg McDermott
48 (35.6%)
Travis Steele
0 (0%)
Kevin Willard
7 (5.2%)
Steve Wojciechowski
23 (17%)

Total Members Voted: 135

Author Topic: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?  (Read 2517 times)

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2020, 10:20:10 PM »
As Harry Caray used to say, “The big possums walk late”. Taking a team that sucks in November and turning it into one that’s to be reckoned with and playing its best basketball in March is the epitome of good coaching.

Team’s win in November due to talent, experience or a combination of both. A good coach’s team plays its best ball down the stretch - that’s Cooley this year. A not so good coach stumbles at the end because the good ones have figured his team out. Look no further than us the last two years.

Yup.  Everyone criticizing you is defending a coach who hasn't won a tournament game.
"When you're the leader of a group or an organization, you hold your kids accountable but the main person you need to hold accountable is me."  -Wojo

BLM

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2020, 10:29:25 PM »
Yup.  Everyone criticizing you is defending a coach who hasn't won a tournament game.

And you’re defending a coach who’s been a head coach for over twice as long and has a whopping 1 NCAA Tournament win...
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Small Orange Soda

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2020, 10:46:44 PM »
And you’re defending a coach who’s been a head coach for over twice as long and has a whopping 1 NCAA Tournament win...

Oh wow, sorry if you thought I was defending him.  I certainly wasn't.  In six years do you think a coach should've won a tournament game? Since we're obviously not Duke Lite (freaking LOL), are you going to show some humility and admit you were hilariously wrong, or just keep spewing the same garbage?  I think we both know the answer. 
"When you're the leader of a group or an organization, you hold your kids accountable but the main person you need to hold accountable is me."  -Wojo

Lennys Tap

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2020, 11:15:08 PM »
Yup.  Everyone criticizing you is defending a coach who hasn't won a tournament game.

No worries, Soda. What ATL knows about college basketball would fill a thimble. Wades is Chico Lite. Pretty smart guy, but when he’s obviously on the losing side of an argument it’s just not in his nature to say “Uncle”. He’ll nitpick, move the goalposts and wear you down with volume and intentional misrepresentations. With some folks a longer discussion can actually find common ground. My experience with Wades is he’s not interested in that.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 08:16:45 AM by Lennys Tap »

MU82

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2020, 11:45:20 PM »
As Harry Caray used to say, “The big possums walk late”. Taking a team that sucks in November and turning it into one that’s to be reckoned with and playing its best basketball in March is the epitome of good coaching.

Team’s win in November due to talent, experience or a combination of both. A good coach’s team plays its best ball down the stretch - that’s Cooley this year. A not so good coach stumbles at the end because the good ones have figured his team out. Look no further than us the last two years.

In 2015-16, when he had a team full of effen studs, Cooley started out 14-1 and got into the top 5 only to close out 10-9 -- including two losses to Wojo.

I don't think that "proves" Wojo is better than Cooley, does it?

The following year, Cooley started 10-2 and finished 10-11. The following year, Cooley started out 10-4 and finished 11-10. And in 2018-19, Cooley started out 10-3 and finished 8-13 (with 2 more losses to Wojo).

So was he a not-so-good coach for years and years before figuring things out this past season? If so, I think there's hope for Wojo, given that last season was Cooley's 14th in D1 and 9th at Providence.

FWIW, Cooley and Wojo are 6-6 head-to-head.

This is NOT me saying Wojo is better than Cooley or that I am satisfied with what Wojo has accomplished. But it is me saying that it doesn't seem to be some no-brainer choice of Cooley (who in 14 years has won 1 NCAA tournament game) over Wojo (who has won none in 6 years).
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BLM

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2020, 12:50:49 AM »
Oh wow, sorry if you thought I was defending him.  I certainly wasn't.  In six years do you think a coach should've won a tournament game? Since we're obviously not Duke Lite (freaking LOL), are you going to show some humility and admit you were hilariously wrong, or just keep spewing the same garbage?  I think we both know the answer.

You were doing what you call “defending” Wojo for Cooley. So by your definition, yes.

What “garbage” do I “keep spewing?”

Somebody got called out on a false statement and didn’t like it. Now he’s all upset. Sad!
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geps

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2020, 08:40:43 AM »
Here's another question. Would you rather have any of these coaches at MU instead of Wojo? I would say no.

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2020, 08:49:13 AM »
Here's another question. Would you rather have any of these coaches at MU instead of Wojo? I would say no.

I think the jury is still out on Jordan and Steele - so put them aside.  I think Cooley And McDermott with better resources that we provide at MU could be really interesting.  I would take Hurley and obviously wright in a heartbeat. 

ATL MU Warrior

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2020, 08:53:41 AM »
Yup.  Everyone criticizing you is defending a coach who hasn't won a tournament game.
Who is defending anybody?  This has nothing to do with Wojo. 

Ed Cooley couldn’t coach his team to wins against powerhouse programs Northwestern (#132 in Ken Pom), Penn (#141) and Long Beach State (#297!!) while returning 70%+ of minutes, scoring, rebounding and assists from the previous season. They had talent.  They certainly had experience and continuity.  To me, that is suspect and is certainly not the sign of some great coaching. 

Lenny thinks all that doesn’t matter because they got better later in the year. They could hardly have gotten worse so I guess I am not impressed.  They should have been playing like they played during the conference season the entire year if Cooley was so great. Instead, he gets a pass to suck for 1/3 or the year. Funny.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2020, 10:05:47 AM »
In 2015-16, when he had a team full of effen studs, Cooley started out 14-1 and got into the top 5 only to close out 10-9 -- including two losses to Wojo.

I don't think that "proves" Wojo is better than Cooley, does it?

The following year, Cooley started 10-2 and finished 10-11. The following year, Cooley started out 10-4 and finished 11-10. And in 2018-19, Cooley started out 10-3 and finished 8-13 (with 2 more losses to Wojo).

So was he a not-so-good coach for years and years before figuring things out this past season? If so, I think there's hope for Wojo, given that last season was Cooley's 14th in D1 and 9th at Providence.

FWIW, Cooley and Wojo are 6-6 head-to-head.

This is NOT me saying Wojo is better than Cooley or that I am satisfied with what Wojo has accomplished. But it is me saying that it doesn't seem to be some no-brainer choice of Cooley (who in 14 years has won 1 NCAA tournament game) over Wojo (who has won none in 6 years).

Mike

I’ll address this to you because you because fairness/being reasonable doesn’t go against your nature.

1. Counting Cooley’s lack of NCAA wins at a low mid major is patently unfair. You know that.
2. The program at Providence that Cooley took over had made 0 NCAA appearances in the previous 4 years, 1in the previous 9 and 2 in the previous 13. Over those 13 years it had 0 tournament wins.
3. Conversely, the program that Wojo took over at MU had made 3 NCAA appearances in the previous 4 years, 8 in the previous 9 and 10 in the previous 13. Over those 13 years it had 13 NCAA tournament wins, including 2 S16s, 1 E8 and 1 FF.

That Cooley’s record at Providence is similar to Wojo’s at MU is beside the point. If the coach at wake Forest produced approximately the same results as the coach at Syracuse would you consider them equal? How about Oregon St and Washington? Minnesota and Ohio St?

I could go on and on but you get my drift. The Providence program that Cooley took over was vastly inferior to the MU program Wojo took over. Similar results given that are indicative of superior coaching. One would need prescription blue and gold goggles to not see the obvious.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2020, 10:10:42 AM »
1. Wright





2.  Anderson - mostly based on past performance..."not indicative of future results"
3. Cooley
4. McDermott
5. Wojo
6. Willard
7. Steele - largely unproven
8. Jordan - largely unproven
9. Ewing
10.  Leitao
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

MU82

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2020, 10:14:57 AM »
Mike

I’ll address this to you because you because fairness/being reasonable doesn’t go against your nature.

1. Counting Cooley’s lack of NCAA wins at a low mid major is patently unfair. You know that.
2. The program at Providence that Cooley took over had made 0 NCAA appearances in the previous 4 years, 1in the previous 9 and 2 in the previous 13. Over those 13 years it had 0 tournament wins.
3. Conversely, the program that Wojo took over at MU had made 3 NCAA appearances in the previous 4 years, 8 in the previous 9 and 10 in the previous 13. Over those 13 years it had 13 NCAA tournament wins, including 2 S16s, 1 E8 and 1 FF.

That Cooley’s record at Providence is similar to Wojo’s at MU is beside the point. If the coach at wake Forest produced approximately the same results as the coach at Syracuse would you consider them equal? How about Oregon St and Washington? Minnesota and Ohio St?

I could go on and on but you get my drift. The Providence program that Cooley took over was vastly inferior to the MU program Wojo took over. Similar results given that are indicative of superior coaching. One would need prescription blue and gold goggles to not see the obvious.

1. All good points.

2. Like you, I always expect our Warriors coach to do much better than the Providence coach, whoever both are. Like you, I am disappointed that Wojo has not significantly outperformed Cooley.

3. Still ... Cooley has not been a particularly good "closer" during his time at Providence, and he has had next to no postseason success. So I'm not sure how he could be classified as a good coach. I wouldn't classy Wojo as such either.

4. Have a great day!
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Elonsmusk

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2020, 10:18:46 AM »
Wright

Cooley
Anderson
Willard
McDermott
Jordan
Wojo
Leiato
Steele
Ewing

No doubt there are cultural differences, but sports is important for many Asians.

muguru

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2020, 11:06:07 AM »
To me, the MU program, given the resources, facilities, make up of the conference etc, SHOULD be a perennial top 3-4 conference finisher every year, consistently. When this new Big East was formed, those were my expectations..minimum. The fact that now if they finish top 3-4 is reason to celebrate, is more of an indictment as to where the program truly is, as opposed to the strides the other programs have made. That's the reality of things unfortunately.
“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

ATL MU Warrior

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2020, 11:54:50 AM »
1. Wright





2.  Anderson - mostly based on past performance..."not indicative of future results"
3. Cooley
4. McDermott
5. Wojo
6. Willard
7. Steele - largely unproven
8. Jordan - largely unproven
9. Ewing
10.  Leitao
I’d flip 3 and 4 but otherwise agree with this

Uncle Rico

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2020, 12:22:10 PM »
Some thoughts on Ed Cooley.  Cooley has done great work at Providence but I’d wager he’s hit his ceiling there.  The program he took over was a mess and had been largely inconsistent at best after Pete Gillen left.

He came in and energized the alumni and fan base and has done a remarkable job making them a consistent tournament team.  That’s what they are and it isn’t easy to maintain that at Providence with all the other local competition they have.

That said, they’ve plateaued. His best season was 2016 when he had a lottery pick and they were 27th in KenPom.  Since then, last years squad that finished 40th overall was the next best season for the Friars and Cooley.

To his credit, the team rallied last season after one of the worst non-conference seasons in recent Big East memory.  That’s an admirable accomplishment.

His offenses have become pretty mediocre.  Even with Kris Dunn, the offense was average. 

I think Ed Cooley has done great work at Providence.  I don’t know if that translates at a school with more resources/pedigree.  That’s why I struggle with “rating” him.  All I know is, if I were a Friar fan, I’d be nervous as hell if he left.
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Lennys Tap

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2020, 02:01:50 PM »
1. Wright





2.  Anderson - mostly based on past performance..."not indicative of future results"
3. Cooley
4. McDermott
5. Wojo
6. Willard
7. Steele - largely unproven
8. Jordan - largely unproven
9. Ewing
10.  Leitao

Fluff

This nails it though Willard’s recent success puts him at least on an even plane with Wojo IMO.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 02:05:31 PM by Lennys Tap »

Lennys Tap

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2020, 02:07:29 PM »
Some thoughts on Ed Cooley.  Cooley has done great work at Providence but I’d wager he’s hit his ceiling there.  The program he took over was a mess and had been largely inconsistent at best after Pete Gillen left.

He came in and energized the alumni and fan base and has done a remarkable job making them a consistent tournament team.  That’s what they are and it isn’t easy to maintain that at Providence with all the other local competition they have.

That said, they’ve plateaued. His best season was 2016 when he had a lottery pick and they were 27th in KenPom.  Since then, last years squad that finished 40th overall was the next best season for the Friars and Cooley.

To his credit, the team rallied last season after one of the worst non-conference seasons in recent Big East memory.  That’s an admirable accomplishment.

His offenses have become pretty mediocre.  Even with Kris Dunn, the offense was average. 

I think Ed Cooley has done great work at Providence.  I don’t know if that translates at a school with more resources/pedigree.  That’s why I struggle with “rating” him.  All I know is, if I were a Friar fan, I’d be nervous as hell if he left.

Solid analysis, Rico.

BLM

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2020, 02:13:07 PM »
I think the overall takeaway is, much like programs in the Big East, there is one clear coach at the top, two clear coaches at the bottom, and then 7 (now 8) coaches whose ranking probably changes from one season to the next.
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2020, 02:16:20 PM »
Fluff

This nails it though Willard’s recent success puts him at least on an even plane with Wojo IMO.

Yeah I just don’t think either are much more than slightly above average.
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GooooMarquette

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2020, 02:52:25 PM »
Ed has a total of 1 NCAA Tournament win in 14 seasons as an NCAA head coach. 6 (including this season) Tournament appearances in 14 seasons.

Not sure how Cooley would be considered a “good” coach if Wojo is considered a “not so good” coach.


Yep. And Cooley's one and only tournament win came in his tenth season as a DI head coach.

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2020, 05:28:05 PM »
You were doing what you call “defending” Wojo for Cooley. So by your definition, yes.

What “garbage” do I “keep spewing?”

Somebody got called out on a false statement and didn’t like it. Now he’s all upset. Sad!

What false statement?  I never defended Cooley.  You claimed Wojo was gonna build Duke Lite.  You have, unfortunately, been wildly wrong.  You're going to nitpick every Anti-Wojo post from here on out, which I get.  You obviously can't defend the results.  Bummer is you're not decent enough to eat the humble pie you deserve.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 06:15:36 PM by Small Orange Soda »
"When you're the leader of a group or an organization, you hold your kids accountable but the main person you need to hold accountable is me."  -Wojo

Herman Cain

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2020, 06:12:40 PM »
It is a close call between Cooley and McDermott. Which is kind of interesting since they are reputed to be good friends.

Very rare for a Cooley team not to come prepared. Providence not the easiest  place to recruit and yet Cooley has made the tournament 5 years ( Probably would have been 6 this year). He appears to get the most possible out of his team every year.   T

This year was a classic demonstration of Cooley's coaching ability , after getting out to the bad start in non conference,Cooley & Company went 12-6 in a strong Big East Conference. Cooley is very strong at working the refs. 

McDermott has done an excellent job of building the Creighton brand of basketball. His teams are fun to watch and the teams show great chemistry on the offensive end. When they miked up McDermott for a whole game,he was very actively encouraging the guys to move the ball to the open man. It is really a big part of their culture.

Creighton also not an easy place to recruit and McDermott's brand of basketball has enabled Creighton to attract a steady stream of quality recruits and transfers. The Creighton program is now in a mode where in their off years they reload versus rebuild. McDermott has essentially extended the Creighton program from being strong in the Missouri Valley to strong in the Big East .
Although close, I voted for McDermott,  primarily because he has demonstrated an ability to build his Creighton program at multiple levels, mid and high major. Also McDermott has built up his team 3 times into the top 10. The teams with his son, The 2016-17 team ( until Maurice Watson got hurt late in the season) and this years team.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/greg-mcdermott-1.html

 

willie warrior

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2020, 06:40:06 PM »
Providence sucked during the non-con.  Was that also a demonstration of Cooley’s coaching ability or not?

MU crapped all over the floor down the stretch the last two years. That certainly was a demonstration of Wojo's coaching ability---just the facts.

willie warrior

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Re: Who is the second best coach in the Big East?
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2020, 06:44:49 PM »
Wright

Cooley
Anderson
Willard
McDermott
Jordan
Wojo
Leiato
Steele
Ewing
This is about right. Would put McDermott higher, and drop Wojo below Leiato, simply because Wojo has much more to work with than Leiato, and has done squat with it.