Covid Deaths, Hospital Payments, etc

[rocky_warrior]

Since this was a big part of the students on campus BE thread, thought I'd start this topic.

Seems no extra payments for covid deaths, just extra money for covid hospital treatments when Medicare/Medicaid is involved.  Writing a death down as covid earns no extra cash.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Wow, I am shocked that there is a factual and reasonable explanation versus the nitwit conspiracy theories from people who "know a doctor" and a "really good source."

[real chili 83]

Wow, I am shocked that there is a factual and reasonable explanation versus the nitwit conspiracy theories from people who "know a doctor" and a "really good source."

Fluff, really?  I’m not disagreeing with your comment, I’m taking issue with your tone.

And yes, my posting history is flawless.  🙄😱😀

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I'm just growing weary of the misinformation.  Facts taken without context.  Anecdotal stories being turned into global trends.  Word of mouth stuff reported as undeniable truths.

It goes against everything I was taught at Marquette.

[real chili 83]

It’s prevalent on both sides.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It’s prevalent on both sides.

Ahhh...."both sides"  LOL.

Misinformation is misinformation.  Bringing up "both sides" is intellectually lazy.  I'm on the side of truth.

[Pakuni]

It’s prevalent on both sides.

On both sides of what?
When it comes to factual information about a health crisis, there is not "both sides." There are truths and there are untruths. Whether hospitals across the country are overstating COVID deaths is not a policy debate. It's either happening or it's not.

[🏀]

It’s prevalent on both sides.

And you with this comment are the issue.

[real chili 83]

You all need to breathe.  Enjoy your bloody.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

You all need to breathe.  Enjoy your bloody.

I agree with that. 

However anecdotal info without cause or reason reeks of what I hear often in organizations about the ‘higher ups’. Sometimes these one-offs are something bigger.  Sometimes not.

If you have anecdotal data and know the cause.  That’s more interesting. 

There are multiple legitimate reasons for amending cause of death.  Many have been openly discussed by health departments and the media and it’s even stated by the CDC that they want judgement on ‘probable cases’. 

If the doc didn’t know why the cause was changed it could easily be that vs something nefarious. 

[4everwarriors]

I'm just growing weary of the misinformation.  Facts taken without context.  Anecdotal stories being turned into global trends.  Word of mouth stuff reported as undeniable truths.

It goes against everything I was taught at Marquette.

Probably should quit watchin' CNN and MSNBC den, hey?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Probably should quit watchin' CNN and MSNBC den, hey?

I don't.  I actually have no idea where any "news" channels are on my television.

[WarriorDad]

Since this was a big part of the students on campus BE thread, thought I'd start this topic.

Seems no extra payments for covid deaths, just extra money for covid hospital treatments when Medicare/Medicaid is involved.  Writing a death down as covid earns no extra cash.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/

How is a 20% increase not deemed an extra payment?  Whether there is an actual extra check written or the current one is higher makes no difference.  The hospitals are still receiving higher reimbursement if the cause of death is listed as COVID and that is going to require some questions in how deaths are labeled.

USA Today fact check says 20% more reimbursement for COVID deaths.  Fact checkers need to fact check the fact checkers.  We need a supreme fact checker apparently

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

Politifact says it is half true, the part that is true is hospitals do receive more money.  "As part of a federal stimulus bill, Medicare is paying hospitals 20% more than standard rates for COVID-19 patients."

The part they don't deem true (not yet anyway) is whether hospitals are gaming the system.  It would not surprise me at all if some under cover journalism comes out to show some hospitals are doing this. Hopefully it is not widespread.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/21/facebook-posts/Fact-check-Hospitals-COVID-19-payments/

[wadesworld]

USA Today fact check says 20% more reimbursement for COVID deaths.  Fact checkers need to fact check the fact checkers.  We need a supreme fact checker apparently

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

Politifact says it is half true, the part that is true is hospitals do receive more money.  "As part of a federal stimulus bill, Medicare is paying hospitals 20% more than standard rates for COVID-19 patients."

The part they don't deem true (not yet anyway) is whether hospitals are gaming the system.  It would not surprise me at all if some under cover journalism comes out to show some hospitals are doing this. Hopefully it is not widespread.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/21/facebook-posts/Fact-check-Hospitals-COVID-19-payments/

His post says exactly what the articles in your post say. Hospitals are paid more for PATIENTS with covid 19. Not deaths, which you claim with your first statement.

I think it’s Cheeks that needs a fact checker.

[WarriorDad]

Time will tell.  A handful of funeral directors in the NYC area came out a few weeks ago and stated hospitals are putting COVID on damn near everything.  There have been some physicians that have raised the alarm bells on this.  Let us see how this all plays out. If some doctors are raising this alarm bell to label it as COVID, why would it matter?  To boost the numbers?  For further reimbursement down the line from the gov't (that is my guess), or some other reason? 

[jesmu84]

Warriordad posting frequency is outrageous these last couple months

[forgetful]

Time will tell.  A handful of funeral directors in the NYC area came out a few weeks ago and stated hospitals are putting COVID on damn near everything.  There have been some physicians that have raised the alarm bells on this.  Let us see how this all plays out. If some doctors are raising this alarm bell to label it as COVID, why would it matter?  To boost the numbers?  For further reimbursement down the line from the gov't (that is my guess), or some other reason?

And yet, even with this anecdotal report, excess deaths indicate that we are still missing CoVID related deaths in NYC, and are under-reporting them nationwide.

Maybe they are putting CoVID on damn near everything, because the majority of deaths have been CoVID related.

[wadesworld]

Time will tell.  A handful of funeral directors in the NYC area came out a few weeks ago and stated hospitals are putting COVID on damn near everything.  There have been some physicians that have raised the alarm bells on this.  Let us see how this all plays out. If some doctors are raising this alarm bell to label it as COVID, why would it matter?  To boost the numbers?  For further reimbursement down the line from the gov't (that is my guess), or some other reason?

So now that you’ve been called out for making up statements that the articles you site don’t support it changes to “we will see. Alarm bells are going off.”

Cool.

I could probably find some pretty cool “alarm bells” on the internet about Donald Trump too. But wait that’s right, you have never voted anything but Democrat in your life.

Go Cubs. Go Arizona Cardinals.

[tower912]

Go Angels.  (Random name drop)

[WarriorDad]

“If you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had Covid at the same time, it’s still listed as a Covid death,” Dr. Ngozi Ezike, the director of Illinois's Department of Public Health, explained to reporters.

https://youtu.be/H5FdnrRR2iY

I have a problem with this as it changes the numbers game.  This is saying if I am in a car crash but also have COVID, my death is listed as COVID.  What is the purpose of doing this?  Reimbursement? Drive up the counts?  Add this to some doctors saying they are pressured into listing COVID when our own director or public health here is outright saying it, and people will ask questions.

The old saying, “Show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome."

[MUDPT]

“If you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had Covid at the same time, it’s still listed as a Covid death,” Dr. Ngozi Ezike, the director of Illinois's Department of Public Health, explained to reporters.

https://youtu.be/H5FdnrRR2iY

I have a problem with this as it changes the numbers game.  This is saying if I am in a car crash but also have COVID, my death is listed as COVID.  What is the purpose of doing this?  Reimbursement? Drive up the counts?  Add this to some doctors saying they are pressured into listing COVID when our own director or public health here is outright saying it, and people will ask questions.

The old saying, “Show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome."

Literally LOL, show me a “clear alternative cause.”  COVID makes it hard to breathe, making oxygen difficult to attain, putting all of the organs at risk for failure. It’s all interconnected.

[wadesworld]

Literally LOL, show me a “clear alternative cause.”  COVID makes it hard to breathe, making oxygen difficult to attain, putting all of the organs at risk for failure. It’s all interconnected.

Right. That’s like claiming the only cause of death ever in this world was heart failure.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Multiple studies have shown that excess deaths, that is the number of deaths occurring over the seasonal normal, are actually 50% higher than COVID-19 certified deaths are recording. We are significantly under reporting the deaths due to the disease*. It is straight forward math. Science. Facts. Figures.  One side doesn't like them.

But the "lifelong Democrat" is really, REALLY vested in proving this rightwing talking point and just about every other one as well.

Seriously, what a farce.  How many times has he been banned?

* Side note: Belgium's death rate is very high, but they claim that is because they are doing a better job than others actually counting COVID deaths, and the numbers somewhat back them on this. Their COVID deaths account for 85% of the excess deaths, rather than the ~50% seen in many other places.

[🏀]

So now that you’ve been called out for making up statements that the articles you site don’t support it changes to “we will see. Alarm bells are going off.”

Cool.

I could probably find some pretty cool “alarm bells” on the internet about Donald Trump too. But wait that’s right, you have never voted anything but Democrat in your life.

Go Cubs. Go Arizona Cardinals.

Waiting for the other shoe to drop...

[MU82]

U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Is Far Higher Than Reported, C.D.C. Data Suggests

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html

There is evidence, in New York and other places, that the official coronavirus counts are probably too low. Tests for the illness can be hard to get, and not all who die now are being tested, particularly if they die outside a hospital. New York City recently revised its own statistics for the number of coronavirus-related fatalities, saying thousands of additional deaths were probably because of Covid-19, even though no tests had been conducted.

There is also increasing evidence that stresses on the health care system and fears about catching the disease have caused some Americans to die from ailments that are typically treatable. A recent draft paper found that hospital admissions for a major type of heart attack fell by 38 percent in nine major U.S. hospitals in March. In a normal year, cardiovascular disease is the country’s leading cause of death.

[GooooMarquette]

U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Is Far Higher Than Reported, C.D.C. Data Suggests

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html

There is evidence, in New York and other places, that the official coronavirus counts are probably too low. Tests for the illness can be hard to get, and not all who die now are being tested, particularly if they die outside a hospital. New York City recently revised its own statistics for the number of coronavirus-related fatalities, saying thousands of additional deaths were probably because of Covid-19, even though no tests had been conducted.

There is also increasing evidence that stresses on the health care system and fears about catching the disease have caused some Americans to die from ailments that are typically treatable. A recent draft paper found that hospital admissions for a major type of heart attack fell by 38 percent in nine major U.S. hospitals in March. In a normal year, cardiovascular disease is the country’s leading cause of death.

Yep.

I don’t doubt that there are a few ‘false positive’ COVID deaths here and there, but CDC’s own numbers suggest that there are far more ‘false negatives’ that were erroneously given other causes because we didn’t have enough tests or understanding of the illness to properly diagnose people early on.

[Hards Alumni]

Warriordad posting frequency is outrageous these last couple months

Not to mention its suspiciously late at night, and late in the morning...

You know, as if he didn't actually live in IL! 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Deaths are being undercounted

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/13/opinion/coronavirus-us-deaths.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

[GooooMarquette]

Deaths are being undercounted

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/13/opinion/coronavirus-us-deaths.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Eh, the numbers were crunched by a Harvard statistician who also is Chair of the Department of Data Science at the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute. What can he possibly know?

[tower912]

My gut says the Harvard guy is wrong and there actually haven't been any deaths.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

500 guts...

As long as one says something different, then all points of view are equal to some fancy educated guy from Harvard.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Well my well placed source says he is wrong.  Beat that!