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Author Topic: Pro Prospects  (Read 3658 times)

WarriorPride68

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Pro Prospects
« on: January 06, 2021, 10:15:02 AM »
Apologies if this has been posted already (assuming it did in another hybrid thread I couldn’t find)

ESPN 2022 Mock Draft was released over the holidays. Couple of MU players:

#22 Justin Lewis
#29 DJ Carton

Galway Eagle

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2021, 10:31:09 AM »
See this is why I'm so apathetic about Wojo. I genuinely think there's three future pros on this team and it's at best been extremely "yay! Oh wait..."
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5DollarPitcher

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2021, 10:57:07 AM »
See this is why I'm so apathetic about Wojo. I genuinely think there's three future pros on this team and it's at best been extremely "yay! Oh wait..."
I’ve been told the talent on this team is middling and we are right where we should expect to be....

Galway Eagle

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2021, 11:00:32 AM »
I’ve been told the talent on this team is middling and we are right where we should expect to be....

The top talent is young and inexperienced. The experienced talent is nothing to write home about.
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5DollarPitcher

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2021, 11:12:31 AM »
The top talent is young and inexperienced. The experienced talent is nothing to write home about.
Sure. But lots of teams with “young, inexperienced” talent parlay that into very successful seasons at the college level.

If Wojo wants to recruit this way (i.e. highly rated prospects that have a strong ambition for the league and could very well leave before their Junior year) then he has to be able to coach that talent, no matter how young and inexperienced, into consistently successful seasons at the college level.  This is the style of Duke, Kentucky,

The other option is to recruit guys that you think fit your team’s identity, and you have confidence that you can mold into a significant contributor on a college basketball team over 4 years. And when he graduates he plays in Spain or the G League because, despite being a stud at the college level, he just doesn’t have the speed to keep up in the NBA - and that’s fine.  This is the style of UW Madison, Villanova (kinda), Virginia.

Nothing necessarily wrong with team building one way or another but they each have their own pros and cons at the college level. Whichever one you choose, you can’t consistently use the cons to that approach as go-to excuses of why you can’t win big at the college level. You chose that approach, you need to figure out how to be successful with it.

wadesworld

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2021, 11:19:05 AM »
I love Justin's game, but I see absolutely no way that he's a first round draft pick after his sophomore year.  The guy was a back end of top 100 prospect, is a 6'7" post player, and is average 8 and 6 while shooting 40% from the field.  Nothing about him says he's a 2 and done first rounder.  The fact they have him at 22 and Dawson not even in the Mock (which he shouldn't be, either, but if one of our freshman is it's certainly Dawson over Justin at this point), tells you what you should need to know about this Mock.

DJ a first rounder, too, is pretty out there.  He has the physical tools to someday play in the NBA.  He has not shown the consistency to get drafted in any round.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2021, 11:24:27 AM »
Sure. But lots of teams with “young, inexperienced” talent parlay that into very successful seasons at the college level.

If Wojo wants to recruit this way (i.e. highly rated prospects that have a strong ambition for the league and could very well leave before their Junior year) then he has to be able to coach that talent, no matter how young and inexperienced, into consistently successful seasons at the college level.  This is the style of Duke, Kentucky,

The other option is to recruit guys that you think fit your team’s identity, and you have confidence that you can mold into a significant contributor on a college basketball team over 4 years. And when he graduates he plays in Spain or the G League because, despite being a stud at the college level, he just doesn’t have the speed to keep up in the NBA - and that’s fine.  This is the style of UW Madison, Villanova (kinda), Virginia.

Nothing necessarily wrong with team building one way or another but they each have their own pros and cons at the college level. Whichever one you choose, you can’t consistently use the cons to that approach as go-to excuses of why you can’t win big at the college level. You chose that approach, you need to figure out how to be successful with it.

Hey man no argument here. I could see what he was doing before. Trying to have a highlight class (Sam Markus) balance with a role player class (Greg Theo Jamal) followed by a highlight class (brenden Joey) and that way he could recruit to "you will have two years being 'the guy'" but transfers busted that up and he's caught with his pants down. It's on him there's no excuse and he's desperately trying to get DJ Justin and Dawson to play older than themselves while having Cain Koby Theo and Greg play above their talent. Neither is working consistently.
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5DollarPitcher

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2021, 11:34:34 AM »
Hey man no argument here. I could see what he was doing before. Trying to have a highlight class (Sam Markus) balance with a role player class (Greg Theo Jamal) followed by a highlight class (brenden Joey) and that way he could recruit to "you will have two years being 'the guy'" but transfers busted that up and he's caught with his pants down. It's on him there's no excuse and he's desperately trying to get DJ Justin and Dawson to play older than themselves while having Cain Koby Theo and Greg play above their talent. Neither is working consistently.
Agreed - he tried to build a long-term team with the Hausers and Howard but it broke up. It looked promising in its heyday. Maybe that’s why people are so obsessed with getting to the bottom of why the Hauser’s left.

Either way. I’m not so sure what our team identity is now, what the plan is for the future, or whether anyone on the team now will even be here in two years. Couple this lack of identity with the fact that Wojo is a proven pretty terrible in-game coach, and our program looks to have long-term basketball problems which the BOT, Scholl, etc don’t seem to be phased by.

Typing all of that brings me to the precipice of apathy. Which is a place I don’t really want to be with MUBB.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2021, 11:52:24 AM »
Typing all of that brings me to the precipice of apathy. Which is a place I don’t really want to be with MUBB.

See this is where I'm at. I suggest you sit down with a whiskey, heavy beer, or red wine for games. Enjoy seeing Marquette on national broadcast because it's better than having to listen to Homer broadcast a no TV loss at UWGB or the time Warner sports 32 terrible production quality. And beyond that just let it be, because that's what he's done to us. Better that than the same tired lines over and over.
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rocky_warrior

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2021, 12:03:19 PM »
See this is where I'm at. I suggest you sit down with a whiskey, heavy beer, or red wine for games. Enjoy seeing Marquette on national broadcast because it's better than having to listen to Homer broadcast a no TV loss at UWGB or the time Warner sports 32 terrible production quality. And beyond that just let it be, because that's what he's done to us. Better that than the same tired lines over and over.

I know Tower makes a comparison to Crean without Wade, and in terms of recruiting that's close.  In terms of excitement, we're back to the Dean days - though Wojo has better recruiting.  So, put Crean without Wade and Dean in a blender and you get Wojo.  Decent team on paper, but not the results Marquette wants to see.  Apathy sets in like it did during the Dean days.  Despite the hatred for Crean - he did bring excitement back to MU hoops.

StillAWarrior

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2021, 12:07:48 PM »
Sure. But lots of teams with “young, inexperienced” talent parlay that into very successful seasons at the college level.

If Wojo wants to recruit this way (i.e. highly rated prospects that have a strong ambition for the league and could very well leave before their Junior year) then he has to be able to coach that talent, no matter how young and inexperienced, into consistently successful seasons at the college level.  This is the style of Duke, Kentucky,

The other option is to recruit guys that you think fit your team’s identity, and you have confidence that you can mold into a significant contributor on a college basketball team over 4 years. And when he graduates he plays in Spain or the G League because, despite being a stud at the college level, he just doesn’t have the speed to keep up in the NBA - and that’s fine.  This is the style of UW Madison, Villanova (kinda), Virginia.

Nothing necessarily wrong with team building one way or another but they each have their own pros and cons at the college level. Whichever one you choose, you can’t consistently use the cons to that approach as go-to excuses of why you can’t win big at the college level. You chose that approach, you need to figure out how to be successful with it.

I disagree with a lot of what you say, but this is dead on.
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brewcity77

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2021, 12:21:46 PM »
I love Justin's game, but I see absolutely no way that he's a first round draft pick after his sophomore year.  The guy was a back end of top 100 prospect, is a 6'7" post player, and is average 8 and 6 while shooting 40% from the field.  Nothing about him says he's a 2 and done first rounder.  The fact they have him at 22 and Dawson not even in the Mock (which he shouldn't be, either, but if one of our freshman is it's certainly Dawson over Justin at this point), tells you what you should need to know about this Mock.

DJ a first rounder, too, is pretty out there.  He has the physical tools to someday play in the NBA.  He has not shown the consistency to get drafted in any round.

Tyrese Halliburton was a sub-100 prospect, averaged 7/3 as a freshman, and everyone saw him as a NBA player as a freshman.
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wadesworld

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2021, 12:55:13 PM »
Tyrese Halliburton was a sub-100 prospect, averaged 7/3 as a freshman, and everyone saw him as a NBA player as a freshman.

I suppose there are always outliers, but Haliburton has very good size for his position, was a good defender, and was uber, uber efficient.  None of those things are going for Justin at this point.
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JWags85

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2021, 02:48:19 PM »
I suppose there are always outliers, but Haliburton has very good size for his position, was a good defender, and was uber, uber efficient.  None of those things are going for Justin at this point.

I think they are going off of what they saw the first 8 games of the season. Long and rangey. Rebounds extremely well for being just midrange size. Defends well. Was shooting 50% from deep before his slump the last 4 games.

He projects very well as a stretch 4 if he can refine his shooting touch. Which is not at all crazy to think. It’s a bit of a reach now, but it’s not completely crazy given another 1.5 years of development

wadesworld

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2021, 03:07:02 PM »
I think they are going off of what they saw the first 8 games of the season. Long and rangey. Rebounds extremely well for being just midrange size. Defends well. Was shooting 50% from deep before his slump the last 4 games.

He projects very well as a stretch 4 if he can refine his shooting touch. Which is not at all crazy to think. It’s a bit of a reach now, but it’s not completely crazy given another 1.5 years of development

I love the kid's game and I think his ceiling is high.  I just don't see the defense you do.  To me his feet look slow.  He was rebounding very well early.  He looked overmatched last night (though so did everyone).  A friend texted me last night, and I agree, he reminds me of Nigel Hayes.  I think he'll be a very good, maybe even great, college basketball player.  I just don't see him leaving early and being a first round pick.  But I've certainly been wrong before.
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BCHoopster

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2021, 03:17:42 PM »
If you look at the last few games, Lewis has had many opportunities to make a big difference in both games, he must be at least 0-8 or 9 from 3. He are not talking about contested shots but wide open shots, not even close. Make a few yesterday and his minutes would have been more, missing he becomes a liability. If he spends all summer working it may become a potential NBA player, right now he is a 3 year or 4 player.

Markusquette

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2021, 03:22:10 PM »
If you look at the last few games, Lewis has had many opportunities to make a big difference in both games, he must be at least 0-8 or 9 from 3. He are not talking about contested shots but wide open shots, not even close. Make a few yesterday and his minutes would have been more, missing he becomes a liability. If he spends all summer working it may become a potential NBA player, right now he is a 3 year or 4 player.

Yes. Great tip-in to beat UW. But otherwise, he's a typical frosh getting extended minutes.

JWags85

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2021, 03:40:37 PM »
Yes. Great tip-in to beat UW. But otherwise, he's a typical frosh getting extended minutes.

13 rebounds in his first game against a major opponent.  18 and 8, plus that tip in, against a top 5 team with two 6’10 senior big men.  11 and 9 against Creighton, another top 10ish opponent, on the road.

He’s had a few rough games recently, like the entire team has, but to act like his season and hype is off of one single play is just silly and makes it seem like you’ve not watched much this season.

mileskishnish72

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2021, 04:03:32 PM »
I’m not so sure what our team identity is now, what the plan is for the future, or whether anyone on the team now will even be here in two years. Couple this lack of identity with the fact that Wojo is a proven pretty terrible in-game coach, and our program looks to have long-term basketball problems which the BOT, Scholl, etc don’t seem to be phased by.

T

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Markusquette

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2021, 04:15:33 PM »
13 rebounds in his first game against a major opponent.  18 and 8, plus that tip in, against a top 5 team with two 6’10 senior big men.  11 and 9 against Creighton, another top 10ish opponent, on the road.

He’s had a few rough games recently, like the entire team has, but to act like his season and hype is off of one single play is just silly and makes it seem like you’ve not watched much this season.

I've watched every game. Where did I say it's all hype? My point is for the number of solid games he has had, there have been many freshman moments. My summation of his season is that shot. Basically that's how I look at the entire year for MU so far. More downs than ups with two exciting wins.

Justin has been struggling a lot lately. 5/18 shooting vs. Georgetown. Have you been watching?

JWags85

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2021, 04:28:09 PM »
I've watched every game. Where did I say it's all hype? My point is for the number of solid games he has had, there have been many freshman moments. My summation of his season is that shot. Basically that's how I look at the entire year for MU so far. More downs than ups with two exciting wins.

Justin has been struggling a lot lately. 5/18 shooting vs. Georgetown. Have you been watching?

Multiple times I’ve said he’s struggled the last few games.  But that’s not indicative of his entire season.  How many “typical” Marquette freshman in the last decade have near double doubles against top 10 teams?  Ellenson would be the only I could think of.

He’s still raw and has a ways to go.  But calling him “typical” with one good play cause he’s played poorly, along with his entire team, for a 2-3 week stretch is gross generalization

Markusquette

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Re: Pro Prospects
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2021, 04:50:32 PM »
Multiple times I’ve said he’s struggled the last few games.  But that’s not indicative of his entire season.  How many “typical” Marquette freshman in the last decade have near double doubles against top 10 teams?  Ellenson would be the only I could think of.

He’s still raw and has a ways to go.  But calling him “typical” with one good play cause he’s played poorly, along with his entire team, for a 2-3 week stretch is gross generalization

He's "typical" in that while he has shown flashes of potential, he has also played like any newcomer would. Poor shooting, mental lapses, etc. I'm excited with his potential, but since this thread is about pro prospects, my response indicates he is not even close to that level right now. Some people were heralding Lewis as the next big thing at MU after the Wisconsin game. He still shot 3/10 vs Creighton.