collapse

* Stud of Colorado Game

Tyler Kolek

21 points, 5 rebounds,
11 assists, 1 steal,
40 minutes

2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek11
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.6
Mitchell2
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

'22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

2024 NCAA Tournament Thread by Plaque Lives Matter!
[Today at 01:02:54 AM]


45 minutes ago at the Dallas Westin by MuggsyB
[Today at 12:19:24 AM]


2024 Coaching Carousel by Plaque Lives Matter!
[Today at 12:10:57 AM]


2024 Transfer Portal by CountryRoads
[Today at 12:05:42 AM]


Are we still recruiting anyone for the 24-25 season. by Don_Kojis
[Today at 12:04:21 AM]


Where is Marquette? by marqfan22
[March 28, 2024, 09:29:52 PM]


Chicago bars for Fri game by Daniel
[March 28, 2024, 08:47:22 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: NC State

Marquette
81
Marquette vs

NC State

Date/Time: Mar 29, 2024, 6:09 pm
TV: CBS
Schedule for 2023-24
Colorado
77

Author Topic: Bailey declares for draft  (Read 80636 times)

Viper

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #550 on: May 30, 2020, 11:21:22 AM »
My expectations are set high.  Some of you remind me of the types that run around saying Marquette is a great academic school.  We are a good academic school with some great and some average programs.  We are a good basketball program that has had great and average periods.
...doesn’t seem like it. You want MU to win...we all do. But you appear ok with the 3of4 seasons in the ncaa. A lot of us dig deeper. 0 freakin’ ncaa tourney wins in what, 7 yrs? Late season flameouts. In game bizarre strategy...or worse...not knowing the score. Academics? Most schools can say good or excellent depending on the program. But I digress...MU hoops has the tools to win bigly, but it really isn’t happening. Many of us wonder why, and how better results can be achieved.
Moron? Maybe. Dork? Possibly. Lost? Definitely.

WhiteTrash

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2721
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #551 on: May 30, 2020, 12:09:25 PM »
Now granted I haven't read every comment because I have some Chicos on ignore, but I don't think I've seen anyone say that the administration or BOT are "idiots". 

I'm just saying it seems like a bit of a contradictory argument saying that you don't want him fired, but the University could fire him.  Since he's not going to be fired (at least this year), why do you care?
I don't see any contradiction.  I'm guessing Nova could afford to fire Wright but why would they?

Wojo is our coach because MU believes in him, not because MU is a hostage to his contract.

If people want to believe otherwise. I think they are anti-Wojo. And I'd feel bad for Wojo knowing he only has a job because MU can't afford a better alternative.

WhiteTrash

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2721
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #552 on: May 30, 2020, 12:16:53 PM »
Stop acting like Marquette University should've known and prepared for a worldwide pandemic.  This isn't unique to Marquette University.  Marquette is in a very tough spot.  So are all similar schools.  It has nothing to do with Wojo, his contract, his buyout, or anything else.

Schools, budgets, programs, staff, etc. are being cut all over the place.  Students are expected back on campus for the fall semester, but nobody knows for sure that that's going to happen.  And if it doesn't it's a huge problem for colleges.

I don't know what's hard to understand about this.  It's happening in all sectors all over the world.  I guess the virus is exposing the fact that idiots run the world.
So if Wojo went 5-25 last year and had only 2 star recruits he'd be back?

Get real, MU can afford to make a change.  Wojo is at MU because they want him to be.

You may not like Wojo but MU does.

Its DJOver

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #553 on: May 30, 2020, 12:32:11 PM »
I don't see any contradiction.  I'm guessing Nova could afford to fire Wright but why would they?

Wojo is our coach because MU believes in him, not because MU is a hostage to his contract.

If people want to believe otherwise. I think they are anti-Wojo. And I'd feel bad for Wojo knowing he only has a job because MU can't afford a better alternative.

I guess technically you're not wrong, but it seems a bit trivial to grind your heels in this much about things that the University could do, but won't.  Also, don't take this the wrong way, but it gives the impression of trying to play both sides of the fence, when you're going around proclaiming that we won't make the tournament next year,and Wojo isn't the guy for the job, but you don't want Wojo fired, but he could be fired if the University wants to.  Not everything is black and white, but you seem to be firing wildly at every end of the spectrum.

WarriorDad

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1352
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #554 on: May 30, 2020, 12:50:26 PM »
...doesn’t seem like it. You want MU to win...we all do. But you appear ok with the 3of4 seasons in the ncaa. A lot of us dig deeper. 0 freakin’ ncaa tourney wins in what, 7 yrs? Late season flameouts. In game bizarre strategy...or worse...not knowing the score. Academics? Most schools can say good or excellent depending on the program. But I digress...MU hoops has the tools to win bigly, but it really isn’t happening. Many of us wonder why, and how better results can be achieved.

He made a mistake in a game and he owned up to.  Coach McGuire cost us games by landing dumb technical fouls, and he admitted those mistakes.  You can harp on that Wojo mistake until the end of time, but it didn't cost us the game. We got to OT and lost.

3of4 seasons is better than Marquette's historical average.  One can only surmise that you have been more often disappointed than happy with the program as a result.  We are in a new conference now with restrictions put into place recruiting according to those in the know here at Scoop.  Those restrictions caused the previous coach to leave and not do very well in his last season.  Those same restrictions are over Wojo's head and he is doing pretty good.  You keep comparing previous regimes that were under different rules.  How do you know how this staff would do if they were allowed to recruit the same without those restrictions?  It does not appear to me that you are comparing two similar things, at least not when you get below the surface on what apparently the administration is allowing.

Unless you are to tell us that all of these Scoop insiders are wrong and Coach Williams leaving because of those restrictions is wrong.  Someone has to pick a fact pattern at some point and stick to it.
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
— Plato

WhiteTrash

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2721
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #555 on: May 30, 2020, 01:14:58 PM »
I guess technically you're not wrong, but it seems a bit trivial to grind your heels in this much about things that the University could do, but won't.  Also, don't take this the wrong way, but it gives the impression of trying to play both sides of the fence, when you're going around proclaiming that we won't make the tournament next year,and Wojo isn't the guy for the job, but you don't want Wojo fired, but he could be fired if the University wants to.  Not everything is black and white, but you seem to be firing wildly at every end of the spectrum.
You are right, I have serious concerns about Wojo as our head coach. If I had to bet money, I think he is in his last year. Just one man's opinion and I hope I am wrong.

I guess I'm guilty of having more faith in Marquette University than I do in Wojo.

I don't think believing in MU and not as much in Wojo is playing both sides of the fence. We're those MU fans in favor of replacing Deane playing both sides of the fence?

Wojo will not be at MU someday (by his choice or not) but MU will continue and I will always be an alum and fan of MU.

Its DJOver

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #556 on: May 30, 2020, 01:33:41 PM »
You are right, I have serious concerns about Wojo as our head coach. If I had to bet money, I think he is in his last year. Just one man's opinion and I hope I am wrong.

I guess I'm guilty of having more faith in Marquette University than I do in Wojo.

I don't think believing in MU and not as much in Wojo is playing both sides of the fence. We're those MU fans in favor of replacing Deane playing both sides of the fence?

Wojo will not be at MU someday (by his choice or not) but MU will continue and I will always be an alum and fan of MU.

I guess I'm just having a difficult time following your thought process.  If you don't think Wojo is the guy for the job, and think that he will be gone after next year (It's fine if you have these opinions BTW), then why do you think that there is no reason to fire him?

You may not be doing this intentionally, but it sure seems like if Wojo succeeds you can go and say that you never thought that he should have been fired.  And if Wojo fails, you can say that you thought that he wasn't the guy for the job.  To me, that is playing both sides of the fence.

WhiteTrash

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2721
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #557 on: May 30, 2020, 01:56:45 PM »
I guess I'm just having a difficult time following your thought process.  If you don't think Wojo is the guy for the job, and think that he will be gone after next year (It's fine if you have these opinions BTW), then why do you think that there is no reason to fire him?

You may not be doing this intentionally, but it sure seems like if Wojo succeeds you can go and say that you never thought that he should have been fired.  And if Wojo fails, you can say that you thought that he wasn't the guy for the job.  To me, that is playing both sides of the fence.
Okay, so there are two separate issue. There is me, some random internet yahoo, who hopes but doesn't have great faith Wojo will work out.

The second, and main issue, is that somehow MU has backed themselves into a corner that will not allow them to replace Wojo. I think that is terribly unfair to both Wojo and MU.

The facts don't support the claims we are stuck with Wojo. He is liked by MU and MU could change coaches if they wanted  to

Its DJOver

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #558 on: May 30, 2020, 02:06:30 PM »
Okay, so there are two separate issue. There is me, some random internet yahoo, who hopes but doesn't have great faith Wojo will work out.

The second, and main issue, is that somehow MU has backed themselves into a corner that will not allow them to replace Wojo. I think that is terribly unfair to both Wojo and MU.

The facts don't support the claims we are stuck with Wojo. He is liked by MU and MU could change coaches if they wanted  to

Again, haven't read every comment, but I haven't seen anyone say this.  I've seen people suggest that it would be more difficult to fire him because of the current state of the economy, which no one could have predicted.  I've seen suggestions that the next time his contract is looked at, it may be restructured to include a buyout that is more favorable to the University (both because of the economic situation, as well as to put Wojo on notice that the overall results aren't up to standards), but I don't think I've seen someone suggest that he is un-fireable.

bilsu

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8801
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #559 on: May 30, 2020, 03:31:06 PM »
Okay, so there are two separate issue. There is me, some random internet yahoo, who hopes but doesn't have great faith Wojo will work out.

The second, and main issue, is that somehow MU has backed themselves into a corner that will not allow them to replace Wojo. I think that is terribly unfair to both Wojo and MU.

The facts don't support the claims we are stuck with Wojo. He is liked by MU and MU could change coaches if they wanted  to
Unfair? It sounds like smart Wojo and dumb MU to me.

muguru

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5556
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #560 on: May 30, 2020, 04:39:16 PM »
Because I don't like people denigrating my school.  MU is a great school and not run by a bunch of idiots like those people like to claim.

He may not be an idiot, but it's my opinion that Lovell simply doesn't care about the basketball program as much as say Father Wild did. That's not to say he's disinterested, but I don't necessarily think he places a high priority on the basketball program being nationally prominent the way Father Wild did.
“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

WhiteTrash

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2721
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #561 on: May 30, 2020, 04:48:50 PM »
Unfair? It sounds like smart Wojo and dumb MU to me.
Maybe, but definitely a recipe for Wojo getting axed and the same for MU's AD.

MU should hire Wojo's agent?

WhiteTrash

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2721
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #562 on: May 30, 2020, 04:57:58 PM »
He may not be an idiot, but it's my opinion that Lovell simply doesn't care about the basketball program as much as say Father Wild did. That's not to say he's disinterested, but I don't necessarily think he places a high priority on the basketball program being nationally prominent the way Father Wild did.
You maybe right. But we're arguing apples and oranges.  Should they let him go? I don't think so.

Can they afford to let him go? 100% Yes.

Sorry some Wojo lovers can't accept that if MU wants to make a change that they can and will. Or I think some of those posters dislike MU and like to paint MU in a bad light.

Viper

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2307
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #563 on: May 30, 2020, 08:04:45 PM »
He made a mistake in a game and he owned up to.  Coach McGuire cost us games by landing dumb technical fouls, and he admitted those mistakes.  You can harp on that Wojo mistake until the end of time, but it didn't cost us the game. We got to OT and lost.

3of4 seasons is better than Marquette's historical average.  One can only surmise that you have been more often disappointed than happy with the program as a result.  We are in a new conference now with restrictions put into place recruiting according to those in the know here at Scoop.  Those restrictions caused the previous coach to leave and not do very well in his last season.  Those same restrictions are over Wojo's head and he is doing pretty good.  You keep comparing previous regimes that were under different rules.  How do you know how this staff would do if they were allowed to recruit the same without those restrictions?  It does not appear to me that you are comparing two similar things, at least not when you get below the surface on what apparently the administration is allowing.

Unless you are to tell us that all of these Scoop insiders are wrong and Coach Williams leaving because of those restrictions is wrong.  Someone has to pick a fact pattern at some point and stick to it.
come on now, don’t go AL when it comes to Wojo. Yeah, AL got  jacked twice in the ‘74 title game vs NC State, but MU was only looking up at UCLA in the ‘70’s. AL is forgiven. Is Wojo even Mike Deane? Rimming.
Moron? Maybe. Dork? Possibly. Lost? Definitely.

brewcity77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 26360
  • Warning-This poster may trigger thin skinned users
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #564 on: May 30, 2020, 08:43:04 PM »
So if Wojo went 5-25 last year and had only 2 star recruits he'd be back?

Get real, MU can afford to make a change.  Wojo is at MU because they want him to be.

You may not like Wojo but MU does.

Both things can be true. Administration can be generally happy with Wojo and in tight financial straits. They don't want to get rid of him and it would be a very hard economic hit on a school that can't really afford it.

If it was a disaster, such as that 5-25 & hemorrhaging support or something bordering on for cause, then it would be a different discussion, but it isn't.
This space reserved for a 2024 National Championship celebration banner.

WhiteTrash

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2721
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #565 on: May 30, 2020, 10:44:27 PM »
Both things can be true. Administration can be generally happy with Wojo and in tight financial straits. They don't want to get rid of him and it would be a very hard economic hit on a school that can't really afford it.

If it was a disaster, such as that 5-25 & hemorrhaging support or something bordering on for cause, then it would be a different discussion, but it isn't.
Uhhg! Now I get why some posters talk about 'moving the goal post'.

Of course we didn't win 5 games. The whole point is to point out the ubserdity that MU can't afford to replace Wojo.

Once again,  I still want Wojo. MU still wants Wojo. Wojo is our coach because we want him not because we can't afford to replace him.

WarriorDad

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1352
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #566 on: May 30, 2020, 11:03:26 PM »
come on now, don’t go AL when it comes to Wojo. Yeah, AL got  jacked twice in the ‘74 title game vs NC State, but MU was only looking up at UCLA in the ‘70’s. AL is forgiven. Is Wojo even Mike Deane? Rimming.

Al was a coaching legend and the best MU will ever have.  He was part of my youth and permanently emblazoned in my memories.  He made mistakes, too.  He admitted them.  Wojo made mistakes.  He admitted them.  Al was a head coach for 7 years before coming to MU.  I don't care how small a school it is, that is on the job training.  Wojo has done his 6 years as head coach all at MU.  I wish he had 5 to 7 years before coming to MU, but he didn't. As a result we get the good with the bad.

I can think of several games that Al admitted his temper likely cost us key games.  He was an Irish hot head, and a brilliant one at that.  MU was not only looking at UCLA in the 70's. On wins and losses, yes, but we were an independent which benefited us greatly.  I would put us at 4th or 5th overall in the decade.  Still amazing.  Is Wojo even Mike Deane? You want me to take you seriously and you respond with that rhetorical question?
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
— Plato

TAMU, Knower of Ball

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22058
  • Meat Eater certified
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #567 on: May 31, 2020, 03:00:30 AM »
Uhhg! Now I get why some posters talk about 'moving the goal post'.

Of course we didn't win 5 games. The whole point is to point out the ubserdity that MU can't afford to replace Wojo.

Once again,  I still want Wojo. MU still wants Wojo. Wojo is our coach because we want him not because we can't afford to replace him.

I don't think anyone has said MU can't afford to replace Wojo. I do think people have said that it would a huge financial burden for the university to take on, as well as a PR hit given that MU had had to furlough hundreds of employees, and certainly not worth it when considering the results that Wojo has brought in. If the results Wojo brought in were worse, maybe it would be worth it.

If you can find me one person who is arguing that MU would fire Wojo if the buyout was lower then I'll apologize...but I think you are making a strawman argument.
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22730
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #568 on: May 31, 2020, 08:27:47 AM »
I don't think anyone has said MU can't afford to replace Wojo. I do think people have said that it would a huge financial burden for the university to take on, as well as a PR hit given that MU had had to furlough hundreds of employees, and certainly not worth it when considering the results that Wojo has brought in. If the results Wojo brought in were worse, maybe it would be worth it.

If you can find me one person who is arguing that MU would fire Wojo if the buyout was lower then I'll apologize...but I think you are making a strawman argument.

Very solid post.

I think you and I have fairly similar opinions and frustrations about the Wojo era. But I stand by my assertion that very, very, very few universities -- and even fewer (if any) non-bluebloods -- would fire a coach with Wojo's record these last 5 years.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

muguru

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5556
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #569 on: May 31, 2020, 08:46:43 AM »
Very solid post.

I think you and I have fairly similar opinions and frustrations about the Wojo era. But I stand by my assertion that very, very, very few universities -- and even fewer (if any) non-bluebloods -- would fire a coach with Wojo's record these last 5 years.

MU's slogan is "be the difference", maybe they should apply that to this situation in the next year or two depending on how things go. Do something most schools wouldn't do.."be the difference".
“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22730
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #570 on: May 31, 2020, 10:47:17 AM »
MU's slogan is "be the difference", maybe they should apply that to this situation in the next year or two depending on how things go. Do something most schools wouldn't do.."be the difference".

I suggest you take the time to craft a letter to Mike Lovell stating your case. There isn't a single Scooper who can do a thing about it.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

TedBaxter

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1210
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #571 on: May 31, 2020, 10:55:44 AM »
Just don't sign it Iceman.
If You Aren't All In For Marquette Basketball, Move On

WhiteTrash

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2721
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #572 on: May 31, 2020, 11:11:44 AM »
I don't think anyone has said MU can't afford to replace Wojo. I do think people have said that it would a huge financial burden for the university to take on, as well as a PR hit given that MU had had to furlough hundreds of employees, and certainly not worth it when considering the results that Wojo has brought in. If the results Wojo brought in were worse, maybe it would be worth it.

If you can find me one person who is arguing that MU would fire Wojo if the buyout was lower then I'll apologize...but I think you are making a strawman argument.
Now you are the one creating a strawman argument.  Nobody has argued that we should fire him if the payout was lower. Posters, like from WarriorDad, argued we can't replace him because we can't afford to. He's ProJo and making a case to keep him. I am only pointing out the falicy of that position.


Uncle Rico

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9630
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #573 on: May 31, 2020, 11:18:39 AM »
Brendan Bailey can’t fire Wojo but he did declare for the draft and is turning pro.  Good luck, BB
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

WarriorDad

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1352
Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #574 on: May 31, 2020, 12:28:46 PM »
Now you are the one creating a strawman argument.  Nobody has argued that we should fire him if the payout was lower. Posters, like from WarriorDad, argued we can't replace him because we can't afford to. He's ProJo and making a case to keep him. I am only pointing out the falicy of that position.

I said nothing of the kind.  In fact, I said MU could pay his buyout, but does it make sense?  Optically and based on performance?  No.   You may be able to purchase a $100k car today, but would it be wise considering other priorities?  This is why I asked who would pay the buyout.  Not because MU cannot, but because MU has more important needs to spend the money on.
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
— Plato

 

feedback