Bailey declares for draft

[Elonsmusk]

No. C.

Now my question. What do those things have to do with what I said?

Program trajectory was being discussed.  You've continuously taken issue with any post(er) critical of Wojo.  Would seem to me a "C" is pretty much indicative of flat line performance. 

That aside, appreciate the honest assessment.  Wojo has met my expectations too - I knew 10 games in mediocre was his ceiling.  Just unfortunate that we spend Top 10 on program and get mediocre ROI.

[Galway Eagle]

Program trajectory was being discussed.  You've continuously taken issue with any post(er) critical of Wojo.  Would seem to me a "C" is pretty much indicative of flat line performance. 

That aside, appreciate the honest assessment.  Wojo has met my expectations too - I knew 10 games in mediocre was his ceiling.  Just unfortunate that we spend Top 10 on program and get mediocre ROI.

Ten games into his first year coaching ever, with players that weren't even his, against a schedule that wasn't his, against 3 top 20 B1G teams, was too quick to make an assessment. You were either going to be right, wrong in the very unlikely event he made the final weekend, or able to move goalposts saying something along the lines of "we were already at consistent second levels so the program still isn't trending upward so wojos been mediocre"

That first 10 games is too little time,  but yes you've seemingly ended up right.

[wadesworld]

Program trajectory was being discussed.  You've continuously taken issue with any post(er) critical of Wojo.  Would seem to me a "C" is pretty much indicative of flat line performance. 

That aside, appreciate the honest assessment.  Wojo has met my expectations too - I knew 10 games in mediocre was his ceiling.  Just unfortunate that we spend Top 10 on program and get mediocre ROI.

I said nothing about not being critical of Wojo. Be critical of Wojo all you want. But when your whining can easily be proven false (see: we were worse last year than the year before despite the upward trajectory, apparently Bailey wasn’t able to replace the Hausers one bit) be prepared to have the facts brought up (we ranked better in both NET and KenPom in 2019-2020 than we did in 2018-2019). If your argument is “look at our wins!” Fine. I guess Henry’s team was better than 2016-2017 or 2017-2018.

Has nothing to do with loving Wojo, hating Wojo, thinking Wojo is God’s gift to basketball or thinking Wojo was planted to be the demise of Marquette University. There’s plenty to whine about. Heck, you can even debate whether the trajectory is up, down, or flat. But when your statement implies our trajectory obviously isn’t up because we had a worse year this year than last, that’s just not the case. Don’t make up stuff to whine about. That’s all.

[Small Orange Soda]

I said nothing about not being critical of Wojo. Be critical of Wojo all you want. But when your whining can easily be proven false (see: we were worse last year than the year before despite the upward trajectory, apparently Bailey wasn’t able to replace the Hausers one bit) be prepared to have the facts brought up (we ranked better in both NET and KenPom in 2019-2020 than we did in 2018-2019). If your argument is “look at our wins!” Fine. I guess Henry’s team was better than 2016-2017 or 2017-2018.

Has nothing to do with loving Wojo, hating Wojo, thinking Wojo is God’s gift to basketball or thinking Wojo was planted to be the demise of Marquette University. There’s plenty to whine about. Heck, you can even debate whether the trajectory is up, down, or flat. But when your statement implies our trajectory obviously isn’t up because we had a worse year this year than last, that’s just not the case. Don’t make up stuff to whine about. That’s all.

No one can say with a straight face that we were going to get a better seed than last year.  Fact is we were under .500 in conference.  Anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty knows we were worse last year than the year before.  Results matter.

[Elonsmusk]

Ten games into his first year coaching ever, with players that weren't even his, against a schedule that wasn't his, against 3 top 20 B1G teams, was too quick to make an assessment. You were either going to be right, wrong in the very unlikely event he made the final weekend, or able to move goalposts saying something along the lines of "we were already at consistent second levels so the program still isn't trending upward so wojos been mediocre"

That first 10 games is too little time,  but yes you've seemingly ended up right.

My assessment of Wojo at that time wasn't a short-term view, as in the results of that first season.   

From my perspective my gut told me from watching those first 10 games that his decision-making, in-game coaching, rotation, roster management, were concerning and didn't bode well.

He's a nice guy, clean cut, brought good kids to MU, and we've been generally fun to watch during his time.  It certainly could be worse.  It's frustrating because he's gotten enough talent here to win more than he has.  He's improved some, yet just not sure there is enough aptitude and "it" factor there to get over the hump.

[wadesworld]

No one can say with a straight face that we were going to get a better seed than last year.  Fact is we were under .500 in conference.  Anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty knows we were worse last year than the year before.  Results matter.

And the results had us finishing as a better team in 2019-2020 than 2018-2019. But if you want to believe Henry’s year was the second best team Wojo has had more power to you. I don’t know what to tell you.

[Small Orange Soda]

And the results had us finishing as a better team in 2019-2020 than 2018-2019. But if you want to believe Henry’s year was the second best team Wojo has had more power to you. I don’t know what to tell you.

Henry's year, the one when we didn't even make the NIT?  I'm comfortable saying that a team that went to the NCAA tournament is better than one that whiffs on the postseason completely.  I'm also comfortable saying that a team that was going to be worse than a five seed is...worse than a team that was a five seed.  These aren't difficult concepts, but in your quest to defend Wojo at every turn, you're trying to muddy the waters and obfuscate that having a worse overall record, worse conference record, much less time in the top 25, and what all bracketologists predicted was going to be a worse seed, means that we were worse than the year before.  Instead, you're clinging to a data point that had 15-16 Minnesota as the 42nd best team.  If we really were better than last year, then why wasn't the committee going to give us a better seed than last year? 

[WhiteTrash]

And the results had us finishing as a better team in 2019-2020 than 2018-2019. But if you want to believe Henry’s year was the second best team Wojo has had more power to you. I don’t know what to tell you.

Would you agree we are trending down?

[wadesworld]

Henry's year, the one when we didn't even make the NIT?  I'm comfortable saying that a team that went to the NCAA tournament is better than one that whiffs on the postseason completely.  I'm also comfortable saying that a team that was going to be worse than a five seed is...worse than a team that was a five seed.  These aren't difficult concepts, but in your quest to defend Wojo at every turn, you're trying to muddy the waters and obfuscate that having a worse overall record, worse conference record, much less time in the top 25, and what all bracketologists predicted was going to be a worse seed, means that we were worse than the year before.  Instead, you're clinging to a data point that had 15-16 Minnesota as the 42nd best team.  If we really were better than last year, then why wasn't the committee going to give us a better seed than last year?

The committee wasn’t giving a seed. We didn’t even get a conference tournament much less an NCAA Tournament.

You talk about record but then when it’s pointed out Hank’s team had the second best record through the regular season and the BET you want to dismiss his team. Which is it?

Comparing our conference record in 2020 to 2019 isn’t hard to figure out. The Big East was significantly better in 2020. And so was our overall schedule, much due to the much better BE.

The good thing about KenPom is it looks at all those things. So does the NET. Has nothing to do with “defending Wojo.” Looking at record from one year to the next and deciding hey, we had a better record this year so we must’ve been a better team isn’t exactly an intelligent way of looking at teams.

Would you agree we are trending down?

No.

[Small Orange Soda]

The committee wasn’t giving a seed. We didn’t even get a conference tournament much less an NCAA Tournament.

You talk about record but then when it’s pointed out Hank’s team had the second best record through the regular season and the BET you want to dismiss his team. Which is it?

Comparing our conference record in 2020 to 2019 isn’t hard to figure out. The Big East was significantly better in 2020. And so was our overall schedule, much due to the much better BE.

The good thing about KenPom is it looks at all those things. So does the NET. Has nothing to do with “defending Wojo.” Looking at record from one year to the next and deciding hey, we had a better record this year so we must’ve been a better team isn’t exactly an intelligent way of looking at teams.

I used overall record as a data point, not the end all be all.  Like I said, a team that doesn't even make the postseason isn't better than one that does.

Jamming your head in the sand and acting like we have no idea what the committee was going to do is intellectually dishonest, and yes, just another way for you to defend a guy who went 8-10 in conference with a first team All American.

[Badgerhater]

The committee wasn’t giving a seed. We didn’t even get a conference tournament much less an NCAA Tournament.

You talk about record but then when it’s pointed out Hank’s team had the second best record through the regular season and the BET you want to dismiss his team. Which is it?

Comparing our conference record in 2020 to 2019 isn’t hard to figure out. The Big East was significantly better in 2020. And so was our overall schedule, much due to the much better BE.

The good thing about KenPom is it looks at all those things. So does the NET. Has nothing to do with “defending Wojo.” Looking at record from one year to the next and deciding hey, we had a better record this year so we must’ve been a better team isn’t exactly an intelligent way of looking at teams.

No.

Your average fan doesn’t give a flying gig about KenPom or any other stats but W and L.

[Tha Hound]

Triggered

Hell of a response

[brewcity77]

No one can say with a straight face that we were going to get a better seed than last year.  Fact is we were under .500 in conference.  Anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty knows we were worse last year than the year before.  Results matter.

Better seed? No. Better team? There's certainly an argument that 2019-20 was better than 2018-19. We weren't just ranked higher on kenpom, our Adjusted Efficiency Margin was 0.67 higher in 2019-20. We had a worse league record, but that was largely because there were 6 other teams in the kenpom top-40 (just one in 2018-19) and 8 teams in the kenpom top-70 (just four in 2018-19). Compare the losses. The 2018-19 team had 8 losses outside the kenpom top-50. The 2019-20 team had just 2!

Ultimately, both teams were disappointing. 2018-19 because they threw away a great shot at a conference title and 2019-20 because they similarly capitulated down the stretch, but if you look at the numbers there's a perfectly fair argument that the most recent team would've had a better record and higher seed than the 2018-19 team did if they played against the same schedule.

[WhiteTrash]

Unfortunately for Wojo '19-'20 did not earn him a raise or extention. This is the beginning of the end.

[panda]

I still believed the 18/19 team could win games towards the end of the season. The 19/20 team down the stretch was one of the most pathetic performances I’ve ever seen. Covid saved them from further embarrassment.

[wadesworld]

Unfortunately for Wojo '19-'20 did not earn him a raise or extention. This is the beginning of the end.

This just in: there’s not a ton of money being thrown around by college athletic departments to their basketball coaches right now.

[bilsu]

The Freshmen are going to be good don't know if excellent but good

I think, if they stay long enough they will be really good. I am more interested in them getting enough playing time next year to be happy and not transfer. From that standpoint Bailey leaving does not bother me.

I am not worried about what our actual record is going to be in a season that is going to have a lot of Covid worries.

I am worried about the NCAA allowing players to transfer without sitting out. I fear MU ends up on the wrong side of this. However, it may be a reason to reduce the recruiting budget. It may be smarter to go after transfers than to go after incoming freshmen.

[Herman Cain]

I think, if they stay long enough they will be really good. I am more interested in them getting enough playing time next year to be happy and not transfer. From that standpoint Bailey leaving does not bother me.

I am not worried about what our actual record is going to be in a season that is going to have a lot of Covid worries.

I am worried about the NCAA allowing players to transfer without sitting out. I fear MU ends up on the wrong side of this. However, it may be a reason to reduce the recruiting budget. It may be smarter to go after transfers than to go after incoming freshmen.

I think MU benefits from the ability of immediate transfers. There are plenty of quality guys who sign up with blue bloods and don't get playing time  . Playing in FiServ and The Big East is a very attractive place for those transfers .

[Newsdreams]

Better seed? No. Better team? There's certainly an argument that 2019-20 was better than 2018-19. We weren't just ranked higher on kenpom, our Adjusted Efficiency Margin was 0.67 higher in 2019-20. We had a worse league record, but that was largely because there were 6 other teams in the kenpom top-40 (just one in 2018-19) and 8 teams in the kenpom top-70 (just four in 2018-19). Compare the losses. The 2018-19 team had 8 losses outside the kenpom top-50. The 2019-20 team had just 2!

Ultimately, both teams were disappointing. 2018-19 because they threw away a great shot at a conference title and 2019-20 because they similarly capitulated down the stretch, but if you look at the numbers there's a perfectly fair argument that the most recent team would've had a better record and higher seed than the 2018-19 team did if they played against the same schedule.

Why do you post facts on Scoop?

[panda]

Perfect example of kenpom breaking people’s brains. A healthy Howard paired with Hauser is infinitely better than the team we had last season.

[bilsu]

I still believed the 18/19 team could win games towards the end of the season. The 19/20 team down the stretch was one of the most pathetic performances I’ve ever seen. Covid saved them from further embarrassment.

Seton Hall was the better team and I had little hope of us winning that game. As far as the NCAA tournament, I thought they only chance we had of winning was getting into a Dayton play in game. Win that one and I think we would of won their next game. It would of been a huge advantage to have a play in win under their belt.

In 2018/2019 we were one game behind Villanova after 9 games and we finished one game behind Villanova at the end of the season. This tells me the rest of the Big East got significantly better. Looking at only the last 9 games Villanova and MU tied for last place.

MU is not meeting my expectations under Wojo.

On the plus side it appears that Wojo runs a clean program and that he works extremely hard on recruiting
.
The big negative for me is team building, which is odd given his recruiting efforts. However, I think it is because he focuses more shooters than other attributes. I also see his sales pitch as a problem. He convinced Garcia he would run the offense through him. He seems to have made the same promise to Carton. He was making the same promise to Mane even after we signed Carton. I am not sure how you meld the talent of Garcia, Carton and Mane together when they were all promised that the offense would run through them. This sounds like a repeat of Hausergate to me.

The imbalance of Wojo's teams is reflected in the statistics. In 6 seasons Wojo has managed to have the all- time leading freshmen scorer (Ellenson), the all-time leading sophomore scorer (Howard), the all-time leading junior scorer (Howard) and the two top all-time leading senior scorers (Howard and Rowsey). All this individual scoring with virtually no postseason success clearly indicates to me a team building problem.

[bilsu]

I'm also comfortable saying that a team that was going to be worse than a five seed is...worse than a team that was a five seed.

I am not going to argue which team is better,. I will argue that the 2018/2019 team  did not deserve to be a five seed. Seeding is screwed up, because the tournament committee gives as much credit for a November win as a February/March win.

It is possible that the big reason we would of gotten into the tournament this year was that we beat USC in a November game that was destroyed by refs calling 60+ fouls. We did not have the frontline talent that USC had, but the refs eliminated that advantage. On paper we should not of won that game and I do not believe we would of beaten USC again, if we played them in March.

[wadesworld]

I am not going to argue which team is better,. I will argue that the 2018/2019 team  did not deserve to be a five seed. Seeding is screwed up, because the tournament committee gives as much credit for a November win as a February/March win.

It is possible that the big reason we would of gotten into the tournament this year was that we beat USC in a November game that was destroyed by refs calling 60+ fouls. We did not have the frontline talent that USC had, but the refs eliminated that advantage. On paper we should not of won that game and I do not believe we would of beaten USC again, if we played them in March.

We beat USC by like 78 points.

[WhiteTrash]

This just in: there’s not a ton of money being thrown around by college athletic departments to their basketball coaches right now.

This just in. Wojo did nothing last year to earn a raise or extention. The end is near.

[wadesworld]

This just in. Wojo did nothing last year to earn a raise or extention. The end is near.

How near? When do you expect Wojo to be gone from Marquette’s head coaching position?