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Author Topic: Bailey declares for draft  (Read 17796 times)

BCHoopster

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #325 on: May 23, 2020, 12:26:43 PM »
Disagree, I think the next recruiting cycle will tell if Wojo is back for a few more years. Needs to add 3 or 4 good players as he did this year. if he does that he will be fine.  He is in on a lot of kids for next year, so we will see.

Herman Cain

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #326 on: May 23, 2020, 12:41:15 PM »
Comfortably in the tournament(with a good enough seed to not be in Dayton)..By comfortably I mean a lock come Selection Sunday. No bubble conversation. Unfortunately, with this years group I'm seeing a team that doesn't even sniff the tournament. Again, thought they were a bubble team once they landed Carton and thought they still lacked one more really good piece(to be a comfortable tournament team). Now without Bailey(who granted was nothing special, but still a starter), unless something with the roster(that's impactful) changes between now and tip off, I think they might be around a .500 team.
Our lineup next year is going to resemble something close to what is a typical lineup for Providence in recent years. That is, a bunch of good sized physical guys with medium skills. Last year Cooley was able to coax 19 wins and , most importantly , 12 conference wins out of that kind of talent pool .

The question for 2020-21 season is does Wojo have the coaching skills to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.  Wojo is now in his 7th year and ,hopefully for the MU faithful,  the answer is yes.

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #327 on: May 23, 2020, 12:47:33 PM »
Not a great look for the program if arguably our best returning player leaving has people saying he won't be missed.  There were calls to drop him from the starting lineup during our second annual free fall, so I get it.  Still, the only other guy that had a case for being our best returning player was Koby, and there's a thread about him if people want to see what the fanbase thinks. 

It is a loss, though.  Like all of Wojo's role players, Bailey showed flashes (Maryland) but was woefully inconsistent, disappearing for games at a time.  If we're going to continue the upward trajectory under Wojo (even though we were worse last year than the year before...I guess Brendan didn't replace the Hausers after all?), then he needs to do a better job of developing players.  Bailey seemed like the best bet to take a leap next year, but he's gone now, and unfortunately didn't become an all-timer.  Luckily we've got three forwards coming in.  Hopefully they'll be able to grab the minutes Bailey left, because Cain, while immensely athletic, has a very low basketball IQ. 
"When you're the leader of a group or an organization, you hold your kids accountable but the main person you need to hold accountable is me."  -Wojo

wadesworld

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #328 on: May 23, 2020, 01:27:44 PM »
Not a great look for the program if arguably our best returning player leaving has people saying he won't be missed.  There were calls to drop him from the starting lineup during our second annual free fall, so I get it.  Still, the only other guy that had a case for being our best returning player was Koby, and there's a thread about him if people want to see what the fanbase thinks. 

It is a loss, though.  Like all of Wojo's role players, Bailey showed flashes (Maryland) but was woefully inconsistent, disappearing for games at a time.  If we're going to continue the upward trajectory under Wojo (even though we were worse last year than the year before...I guess Brendan didn't replace the Hausers after all?), then he needs to do a better job of developing players.  Bailey seemed like the best bet to take a leap next year, but he's gone now, and unfortunately didn't become an all-timer.  Luckily we've got three forwards coming in.  Hopefully they'll be able to grab the minutes Bailey left, because Cain, while immensely athletic, has a very low basketball IQ.

The all knowing KenPom says we were better this past season than we were the prior year.

The Lens

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #329 on: May 23, 2020, 01:42:13 PM »
Bailey is the exact type of player that shows why NIL is needed. If he could make money as one of the faces of the program for the next two years, he might not have to chase dollars overseas. I'm not even sure his standard of living will be that much better playing in Europe, but the allure of an actual paycheck could be mitigated with donors willing to persuade him to stick around.

He would probably make less than $15,000* in the Milwaukee market AND he still needs to go to school everyday.   

*And I doubt that's all cash.  Maybe a car trade, maybe some clothing. 
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car    ---- Dr. Blackheart

brewcity77

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #330 on: May 23, 2020, 02:04:43 PM »
He would probably make less than $15,000* in the Milwaukee market AND he still needs to go to school everyday.   

*And I doubt that's all cash.  Maybe a car trade, maybe some clothing.

Sure, but meals, lodging, travel, and other expenses would be paid for. Now some teams overseas do cover some of that, but it depends on how good you (and your agent) are. I don't expect Bailey will be getting the marquee player treatment off the bat. And while going to class is a drawback, getting a degree is a positive that likely won't be there in the short term overseas.

Let's say he makes $10,000 here. That's all above living expenses since those are covered. Will he certainly make $10,000 above living expenses overseas? I'm not sure he would. Either way, it would definitely make for a more compelling argument in favor of Marquette.

Badgerhater

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #331 on: May 23, 2020, 02:27:11 PM »
23 and making a few bucks bumming around Europe while playing hoops?  Totally worth it for a few years.  Wish BB good luck.

Never begrudge a kid following a dream or living life; what us middle-aged folks think is irrelevant.

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #332 on: May 23, 2020, 02:55:42 PM »
The all knowing KenPom says we were better this past season than we were the prior year.

Oh.  Was the all knowing KenPom gonna give us a five seed or better?
"When you're the leader of a group or an organization, you hold your kids accountable but the main person you need to hold accountable is me."  -Wojo

WhiteTrash

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #333 on: May 23, 2020, 03:00:38 PM »
Oh.  Was the all knowing KenPom gonna give us a five seed or better?
Right? Even Wojo's family will agree we are trending down. We're at the point where Wojo will get a lot of coaching credit if we finish .500.

wadesworld

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #334 on: May 23, 2020, 04:05:25 PM »
Oh.  Was the all knowing KenPom gonna give us a five seed or better?

No idea.  But both KenPom and the NET had us ranked better in 2019-2020 than they did in 2018-2019.

WhiteTrash

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #335 on: May 23, 2020, 04:09:10 PM »
No idea.  But both KenPom and the NET had us ranked better in 2019-2020 than they did in 2018-2019.
No idea? So you think we were a 5 seed or better?

wadesworld

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #336 on: May 23, 2020, 04:15:52 PM »
No idea? So you think we were a 5 seed or better?

I think (know) both the NET and KenPom had us ranked better this past season than the year before. But, according to you and orange soda, downward trajectory, facts be damned.

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #337 on: May 23, 2020, 04:24:20 PM »
I think (know) both the NET and KenPom had us ranked better this past season than the year before. But, according to you and orange soda, downward trajectory, facts be damned.

2018: 24-10, 12-6, 2nd in Big East, #5 seed.

2019: 18-12, 8-10, 6th in Big East, Probably worse than a #5 seed.

Scrounge around for some more arguments, though.  Facts be damned.
"When you're the leader of a group or an organization, you hold your kids accountable but the main person you need to hold accountable is me."  -Wojo

wadesworld

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #338 on: May 23, 2020, 04:26:09 PM »
2018: 24-10, 12-6, 2nd in Big East, #5 seed.

2019: 18-12, 8-10, 6th in Big East, Probably worse than a #5 seed.

Scrounge around for some more arguments, though.  Facts be damned.

Oh. So our schedule was identical and the strength of the Big East was identical both years. Got it.

dgies9156

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #339 on: May 23, 2020, 04:27:10 PM »
College basketball is a game of “next man up,” period.

I would have welcomed Brendan Bailey for another two years and had hopes he’d step up. But, all we can do is wish him well and hope the next guys up make a difference.

Not convinced here we dont have more talent than most posters think. I’m of the view that Dawson will be really good from the outset. Here’s hoping a backcourt of Koby and Carton getting a waiver plus Theo and perhaps Justin or Oso and well be just fine.

Only concern I have is I would have liked the depth we have going into next season. Hoping Mane may still choose college  :) !!!!

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #340 on: May 23, 2020, 04:28:00 PM »
Oh. So our schedule was identical and the strength of the Big East was identical both years. Got it.

Were we getting better than a #5 seed or not?
"When you're the leader of a group or an organization, you hold your kids accountable but the main person you need to hold accountable is me."  -Wojo

wadesworld

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #341 on: May 23, 2020, 04:33:48 PM »
Were we getting better than a #5 seed or not?

There was no tournament. So no? I don’t know what answer you’re looking for. What I do know is Kenpom and NET had us ranked better in 2019-2020 than they did in 2018-2019.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #342 on: May 23, 2020, 04:34:05 PM »
i'm wondering if, or how much of a season we are going to have this year.  i think with BB's dad's connections, they feel he has a better chance to develop his game for the next level.  i am not saying he's necessarily going to be successful at the next level.  i wish hi all the good fortunes, but he's got a lot of work to do. 

also not a big vote of confidence for wojo's ability to develop small forwards like say, guys like buzz. 
i'll take ape tit for $200 alex

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #343 on: May 23, 2020, 04:40:47 PM »
There was no tournament. So no? I don’t know what answer you’re looking for. What I do know is Kenpom and NET had us ranked better in 2019-2020 than they did in 2018-2019.

Oh, okay.  What I also know is that we went 8-10 in conference with a first team All American, and lost 6 of our last 7 games.  Again.

Doesn't this get tiring for you, having to defend Wojo's mediocrity?  I've seen you rightfully criticize leaders in other places on this website.  Six years in, don't you think we can draw some conclusions?
"When you're the leader of a group or an organization, you hold your kids accountable but the main person you need to hold accountable is me."  -Wojo

wadesworld

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #344 on: May 23, 2020, 04:43:09 PM »
Oh, okay.  What I also know is that we went 8-10 in conference with a first team All American, and lost 6 of our last 7 games.  Again.

Doesn't this get tiring for you, having to defend Wojo's mediocrity?  I've seen you rightfully criticize leaders in other places on this website.  Six years in, don't you think we can draw some conclusions?

Not defending anything. Correcting incorrect statements is all.

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #345 on: May 23, 2020, 04:50:48 PM »
Not defending anything. Correcting incorrect statements is all.

Well you weren't though, bud.  You decided pointing out that the schedules were different year to year (No sh*t?) was your big trump card.  I agree with Ners/Elon about pretty much nothing, but he's right about you.  Instead of looking for ways to antagonize people who disagreed with you about Wojo building the program into Duke Lite, you could've just owned up.  Dude's failed to win a tournament game in six years.  His two best teams completely dismantled down the stretch.  You'll never eat crow though.  Oh well.
"When you're the leader of a group or an organization, you hold your kids accountable but the main person you need to hold accountable is me."  -Wojo

wadesworld

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #346 on: May 23, 2020, 04:54:40 PM »
Well you weren't though, bud.  You decided pointing out that the schedules were different year to year (No sh*t?) was your big trump card.  I agree with Ners/Elon about pretty much nothing, but he's right about you.  Instead of looking for ways to antagonize people who disagreed with you about Wojo building the program into Duke Lite, you could've just owned up.  Dude's failed to win a tournament game in six years.  His two best teams completely dismantled down the stretch.  You'll never eat crow though.  Oh well.

Lol.  None of that is what you were discussing in the post I responded to.  So I guess I'll apologize for not anticipating you would go off the rails and addressing things you hadn't said yet when responding to your post?

Based on your way of "ranking" Wojo's teams (which is what you were discussing, which teams of his were better than other teams of his), Henry Ellenson's year would've been better than Wojo's first NCAA Tournament team or his NIT team.  Now that is a WILD way of ranking his teams, but hey, you do you, bud.

Fact is, 2019-2020 was better in KenPom/NET than 2018-2019, so that being worse last year than the year we had 2 letter writers and 0 help from Bailey in replacing them just doesn't ring true.

I'll let you continue to go on about Wojo's coaching ability, none of which is what I replied to.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 04:57:00 PM by wadesworld »

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #347 on: May 23, 2020, 05:01:30 PM »
Lol.  None of that is what you were discussing in the post I responded to.  So I guess I'll apologize for not anticipating you would go off the rails and addressing things you hadn't said yet when responding to your post?

Based on your way of "ranking" Wojo's teams (which is what you were discussing, which teams of his were better than other teams of his), Henry Ellenson's year would've been better than Wojo's first NCAA Tournament team or his NIT team.  Now that is a WILD way of ranking his teams, but hey, you do you.

Fact is, 2019-2020 was better in KenPom/NET than 2018-2019, so that upward trajectory and 0 help from Bailey in replacing the Howard just doesn't ring true.

I'll let you continue to go on about Wojo's coaching ability, none of which is what I replied to.

Neat.  Fact is we went 8-10 in conference, and were going to be a worse seed than the year before.  I am in no way anti-stats, but they don't outweigh the results.  Again, you're scrounging around for ways to make Wojo look better than he is.  You're ignoring all the facts and holding strong with Hydroxy--sorry, his KenPom ranking, regardless of everything else.
"When you're the leader of a group or an organization, you hold your kids accountable but the main person you need to hold accountable is me."  -Wojo

bilsu

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #348 on: May 23, 2020, 05:04:44 PM »
Worst part of Bailey leaving is only 10 guys on scholarship. If Carton doesn’t get a waiver, depth and experience is really stressed then. Then you live in fear of a player or two going down with an injury, which is almost inevitable over course of a season.  It’s a tenuous situation right now.
Normally you are right about this. However, I just cannot worry about how good this team is. I just hope there is an NCAA tournament whether we are in it or not. We are possibly looking at a season without fans in the stadium. I just want to get back to normal. I am not going to obsess about this year's team.

bilsu

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Re: Bailey declares for draft
« Reply #349 on: May 23, 2020, 05:08:53 PM »
No idea.  But both KenPom and the NET had us ranked better in 2019-2020 than they did in 2018-2019.
All I know is the Big East overall was much better last season than the prior season. Therefore the team could of been better, but have a worse record.