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Author Topic: Wojo vs Hurley  (Read 1027 times)

MU82

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Wojo vs Hurley
« on: April 14, 2020, 11:10:37 AM »
Within the Recruiting thread, an argument about Wojo's coaching ability (or lack thereof) broke out, as so often happens in threads about any topic.

This comment elicited a lot of back-and-forth:

MU should have hired the other Duke point guard.Bobby*******Hurley.Big time get

After reading the back-and-forth, my interest was piqued enough to do a few minutes of research. It wasn't very difficult to do. Unfortunately, it wasn't until after I posted it and a fellow Scooper complained about it being in the Recruiting thread that I realized I had put it there.

So now I am moving the results of my research here, as well as a couple of responses. If folks want to continue to discuss it, fine. Otherwise, the facts are the facts are the facts ...


In 7 seasons as a college head coach, 2 at Buffalo and 5 at ASU, Bobby Hurley has won 1 NCAA tournament game -- last year's play-in game at Dayton. In 6 seasons as a college coach, Wojo has won no NCAA tourney games. (Obviously, there were no tournament games in 2020.)

In 2020, Bracket Matrix had ASU as a 10-seed; MU as a 9-seed. In 2019, ASU was an 11 and had to go to Dayton; MU was a 5. In 2018, ASU was an 11 and had to go to Dayton; MU missed the tourney. In 2017, ASU missed the tourney; MU was a 10 seed.

In 5 seasons as a P6 coach, Hurley is 93-69 overall (.574) and 43-47 in the Pac-12 (.478); in 6 seasons as a P6 coach, Wojo is 115-81 overall (.587) and 51-57 (.472).

In 2017-18 Hurley's team started 12-0 but went 8-12 the rest of the way, had to play in Dayton and lost; in 2018-19 Wojo's team started 23-4 but went 1-6 the rest of the way and got crushed by Murray State in the NCAAs; in 2019-20, ASU lost 3 of its last 4 games and MU lost 6 of its last 7 games.

ASU trended up through Hurley's 4th season but took a step backward last season. Marquette trended up through Wojo's 5th season but took a step backward last season.

The highest ASU has finished in the Pac-12 under Hurley is 2nd place; the highest MU has finished in the Big East under Wojo is 2nd place.

Hurley is 2-4 in Pac-12 Tournament games over 4 years; Wojo is 4-5 in Big East Tournament games over 5 years. (No conf tourney games for either in 2020.)

Hurley's incoming recruiting class is ranked 33rd by 247, Wojo's is ranked 16th; Hurley's is ranked 16th by Rivals, Wojo's is ranked 20th.

I look at all of the above and I see two coaches whose records are strikingly similar -- some decent seasons, some failures, some fast starts, some late collapses, some nice wins, some horrific losses, no NCAA noise made, no conference titles. Their W/L records, both overall and in conference, were almost identical.

I certainly can see how any objective observer might say both have been mediocre; gentler judges might say "decent."

Many Scoopers, however, look at all of the above and conclude that Hurley is "getting it done" while Wojo is an epic failure.

That is what is known as "familiarity bias."

MU82.Get your head of the clouds man.Hurley coached Buffalo to first place finishes in the two years he was there.What kind of basketball tradition does Buffalo have.Now he is at another non basketball tradition school and trending upward.Wojo is at a rich basketball tradition school,in a great league with a nice budget and plays in one of the best arenas in the Country.What does Wojo have to show for it.O'Neill was much better and MU was in a crappy conference when he came and he still produced.Crean got MU to the Final Four being in Conference USA.Buzz did very well at MU.I can't believe people are still supporting Wojo.

Head in clouds = facts. Got it.

Look, man, I'm no longer in the Projo camp. I simply like seeing honest discourse based on facts and not on familiarity bias and hate.

If you simply refuse to look at what each gentleman has accomplished (or not accomplished) as a P6 coach, you are beyond help.

MU82.What has Wojo accomplished?Great he has been to the NCAA tourney 3 out of 6 years with no wins.Below .500 record in conference.He is at a basketball rich tradition school with a nice budget,plays in a good league in a nice arena.O'Neiil and Crean  have done remarkable better at MU than Wojo has under more trying conditions such as league affiliation and facilities.MU can do much better.

You seem to have difficulty with reading comprehension. I am not advocating for Wojo. I am not even saying he's better than Hurley. Some Scoopers claim that Hurley is "getting it done," so I took 10 minutes to look at the facts and see if he's been getting it done any better than the coach those same Scoopers consider an epic failure. The facts say he hasn't.

Anybody can try to take those facts and twist them to make a narrative, as you have. I'm arguing nothing except that the facts are the facts.

Other posters do seem to be able to get what I am saying, such as:

Agreed, they are strikingly similar, not sure how one can conclude Hurley is "getting it done." Well laid out. At this point I would not be satisfied with either one of them.

That's all I'm saying.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson